Chinese Spy Balloon Flying Over the U.S.

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Llewtrah381 said:
First, where was - or is - the proof this was Chinese MILITARY? Why not their NSA equivalent? Why not even a government-sponsored commercial surveillance system - or even a private company?

Second, where’s the proof they were surveilling military, especially nuclear assets, which everyone assumed? I can assure you, those are very well secured - plus what’s the benefit in surveilling nuclear sites when they’re not on heightened alert and in the context of satellite surveillance by them, the Russians, the Israelis, the French, the Brits, and whoever else?

Why did people go down the “surveilling our nuclear assets” rabbit hole without wondering if they were surveilling CORPORATE targets, which are much softer and more in line with Chinese practices, such as stealing/copying our technologies? Or maybe our power grid management?

I’m not saying they did this or anything else. I’m saying it was a no-brainer to speculate it was surveillance equipment - but not at all clear who exactly was doing it and for what purpose. And I’d also say not shooting it down early-on allowed for the possibility of learning what was being gathered and transmitted, to better protect “our” assets - military and civilian.

One thing’s for sure: thank goodness our national defense is ultimately based on reason and not emotion.
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Good grief! You’re getting into minutia in response to a simple observation and going the opposite direction. Incredible!
 
RyanShort1 said:
If one was a bit prejudiced, one might come to the conclusion that you you think that half of the US is a bigger potential enemy than the Chinese are.
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I'm curious how you came to that conclusion from his reply.

MBDiagMan said:
Good grief! You’re getting into minutia in response to a simple observation and going the opposite direction. Incredible!
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It seems you didn't read it or, more likely, you didn't understand his reply.
 
If its mission was to gather intel, the normal response would have been to not announce it publicly and feed it full of misinformation.. this one just happen to be spotted outside the club..
 
Piperonca said:
I see this balloon thread has drifted off course, seems to be bouncing around, and has become over-inflated with hot air.
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Hell, I, um, oh never mind, I cannot compete with those puns.
 
cowman said:
Is anyone else kind of concerned they just shot down something they hadn’t identified? That just seems… unwise.
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No. ROE requires a positive ID of the target and a determination of hostile act or hostile intent.

HA/HI are vert clearly spelled out in the Air Defense of the United States Special INstructions (SPINS).
 
wanttaja said:
One of the key points here is that the use of balloons as intelligence collectors is *blown*. We know they're doing it, we know how to find the balloons, and we know how to shoot them down. The whole mission is pretty much trashed.
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Consider the cost of a balloon to China compared to the cost to the US to remove it. Then ponder what might be the outcome if they were to suddenly launch them by the hundreds. How quicky could the US determine which, if any, were a direct threat, and how much equipment & manpower might be needed to stop a "balloon assault" if such a thing were to happen.

Might such a scenario manifest itself and while we are busy chasing balloons they counter attack from a different direction? Balloons used as a decoy?

I want to think our "protectors" have a handle on this but then we hear of how many came over that they admitted they didn't even know about ... :dunno:
 
Daleandee said:
Consider the cost of a balloon to China compared to the cost to the US to remove it. Then ponder what might be the outcome if they were to suddenly launch them by the hundreds. How quicky could the US determine which, if any, were a direct threat, and how much equipment & manpower might be needed to stop a "balloon assault" if such a thing were to happen.

Might such a scenario manifest itself and while we are busy chasing balloons they counter attack from a different direction? Balloons used as a decoy?

I want to think our "protectors" have a handle on this but then we hear of how many came over that they admitted they didn't even know about ... :dunno:
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There’s a very interesting documentary called “Fast, Cheap, & Out of Control”.

One of the segments is a guy who builds robots. His comments about Mars exploration is similar to your comments about lots of cheap balloons. He was considering the comparison of a single large and expensive probe vs many small and cheap probes.


 
Daleandee said:
Consider the cost of a balloon to China compared to the cost to the US to remove it. Then ponder what might be the outcome if they were to suddenly launch them by the hundreds. How quicky could the US determine which, if any, were a direct threat, and how much equipment & manpower might be needed to stop a "balloon assault" if such a thing were to happen.

Might such a scenario manifest itself and while we are busy chasing balloons they counter attack from a different direction? Balloons used as a decoy?

I want to think our "protectors" have a handle on this but then we hear of how many came over that they admitted they didn't even know about ... :dunno:
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There's undoubtedly a cost misbalance already; each AIM-9X probably cost more than the balloons they shot down, not to mention the labor-hours, equipment wear, and fuel used to do so.

I'm not too worried about that (yet!) because I'm in favor of anything that lets our warriors practice being warriors. Call it a military exercise. A few hundred balloons might be more of an issue, especially if they start sending a bunch of cheap balloons with no payloads just to stress us out.

This, too is where (good 'ol) American ingenuity comes into it. There are undoubtedly hundreds of folks looking into more cost-effective ways of bringing these things down. A Perlan glider with a knitting needle *might* be somewhat close to what we'll need. Or fly over the balloon with a grappling hook (arr!), snag the thing, and drag it home.

We've already discussed that every U-2 occupied with chasing balloons is one less U-2 watching the South China Sea. Otherwise, though, we SHOULD be watching our borders; increased attention probably won't hurt our efforts elsewhere. Federal law prohibits using our space intelligence assets on US targets except in specific circumstances; balloon-chasing might get added to the list of exceptions.

Otherwise, I'm not seeing any major potential issues about the distraction these missions are causing. But, of course, that's the WHOLE purpose of distraction....

Of course, they are causing political distraction and upheaval, which might be a major goal. Have to balance, that, though, with the potential of additional sanctions that might hurt them.

Ron Wanttaja
 
I still think a laser equipped airliner equivalent would probably be the easiest deal like the previously mentioned experimental 747. You could probably zap the envelopes of 50 balloons in one flight if you did it right.
 
RyanShort1 said:
I still think a laser equipped airliner equivalent would probably be the easiest deal like the previously mentioned experimental 747. You could probably zap the envelopes of 50 balloons in one flight if you did it right.
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Or at least blind their sensors.
 
ABC News Chief Global Affairs Correspondent Martha Raddatz first reported that when fighters were scrambled, the pilots did visuals, got images and said there was no sign the object had propulsion.

It was described as "cylindrical and silver-ish gray" and seemed to be floating, a U.S. official said.

Asked if was "balloon-like," the official said, "All I say is that it wasn't 'flying' with any sort of propulsion, so if that is 'balloon-like' well -- we just don't have enough at this point."

Is this it?

March-201950New-Yo_1112699i.jpg
 
If it has no propulsion, the only way to provide lift is buoyancy. So it sure sounds like a balloon.
 
NoHeat said:
If it has no propulsion, the only way to provide lift is buoyancy. So it sure sounds like a balloon.
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That’s only if you believe gravity is real.

Believe what you want…
 
iu
 
Piperonca said:
My thought too. Easy enough to cobble up a mylar contraption.
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Indeed. For that matter, the second one could have been cobbled up by some high school students.

What're the Mythbusters up to, these days? :)


Ron Wanttaja
 
wanttaja said:
Indeed. For that matter, the second one could have been cobbled up by some high school students.

What're the Mythbusters up to, these days? :)


Ron Wanttaja
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I worked at a company where we used a lot of helium. Some of the engineers would sometimes take one of the biggest plastic bags we had, maybe 10 feet long (don't know why we had them-they were black), toss a strip of aluminum foil in it, fill it with He, tie off the end, and let it go.
 
Balloon number 3 now shot down over Canada.
 
JKeep shooting them down. Target practice is always fun. Shoot down enough of them and they’ll stop sending them.
 
The lady down the street is a realtor and is convinced that the Chinese are using the balloon, and others like it, to identify available real estate that is near sensitive military installations.

She may have a point:

AluminumSandwichSigns.png


Just a trial balloon.
 
Nah…. Make it a LASER kill!
 
Capngrog said:
The lady down the street is a realtor and is convinced that the Chinese are using the balloon, and others like it, to identify available real estate that is near sensitive military installations.

She may have a point:

AluminumSandwichSigns.png


Just a trial balloon.
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That did it. I've run out of gas now.
 
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