Chicago Tribune: Half of ATC jobs go to people with no aviation experience

kevin7500 said:
Your definition implies that any suitable candidate with any aviation background is, by default, better than all of the potential candidates without any aviation background. That is most likely not the case.
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I don't think that what I wrote implies that at all.
 
Palmpilot said:
I don't think that what I wrote implies that at all.
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I re-read what you said before and I was mistaken. What it seems that you are saying is that if you can find 1,700 who meet the minimum standard in a pool of 5,500 candidates there isn't any reason to look outside of that pool. In other words, a minimally suitable candidate with an aviation background should be preferred over a non-aviation candidate who tests as exceptional.

:no:
 
kevin7500 said:
I re-read what you said before and I was mistaken. What it seems that you are saying is that if you can find 1,700 who meet the minimum standard in a pool of 5,500 candidates there isn't any reason to look outside of that pool. In other words, a minimally suitable candidate with an aviation background should be preferred over a non-aviation candidate who tests as exceptional.

:no:
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I said nothing of the kind.
 
I'm surprised to hear that half the new controllers have aviation experience to be honest.
 
Jim Logajan said:
The question isn't what the agency gets to decide, but what do you or I or anyone else reading this thread think of their changed requirements?

Was there a personality test in the 70s and 80s?

Do you think the newly introduced personality test was or was not instituted with adequate warning? Who do you think lost the most due to the short notice between announcement and implementation? Gained the most?
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Jim Logajan said:
NASA will not offer an astronaut job simply on the basis of a personality test. See http://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/postsecondary/features/F_Astronaut_Requirements.html

The FAA has basically terminated the ATC schools by employing a personality test that disregards anything the school has any knowledge or control over.
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Well, I must be confused. The title of this thread deals with ATC jobs going to people with no aviation experience. My replies were related to the thread title. What does the personality test have to do with this ?
 
B350ATP said:
Well, I must be confused. The title of this thread deals with ATC jobs going to people with no aviation experience. My replies were related to the thread title. What does the personality test have to do with this ?
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Sorry, I actually read the article and was interested in its contents. I assumed you had read beyond the title also.

I see you don't intend to provide any answers to my questions.
 
Jim Logajan said:
Sorry, I actually read the article and was interested in its contents. I assumed you had read beyond the title also.

I see you don't intend to provide any answers to my questions.
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Well I may not have the answers, I am speaking to the thread title. With that said, the FAA has (for whatever reason) instituted this test. What do you mean by "personality test" ? Is this the MMPI test ? This test is a fairly no brainer and if you get a question "I like to work alone" or "I work well in a team" then it is best to pick team. If you get (yes/no) "I hate my father" probably circle the "no"

Most major police departments, the military, the FBI, other agencies use these types of tests.

Why is this bad for a a group of folks, tasked with controlling multi-ton jets going 500 knots, containing 300 people onboard, to take this as part of new-hire screening ?
 
Jim Logajan said:
Ahem. The equivalent headline for piloting would be "Half of ATP jobs go to people with no aviation experience."

The "total shock" analogy would be the airlines suddenly using a personality test to determine who they would offer jobs to, disregarding any previous flight experience applicants might have and the airlines funding all the training needed to attain ATP.
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Actually, just as long as one meets the basic requirements, I've heard that SWA's initial interviewing process is a lot more focused on hiring people than it is in hiring pilots. Honestly, I don't really disagree with this. If I were a pilot on a hiring board, one of the top questions I would have to ask myself is, "Would I want to fly a 4 day trip with this guy?" After all, it's not like people are getting hired and going straight to the line. Every 121 has a very thorough training program that a pilot must pass before he/she can fly the line.
 
kjsaunders said:
We all have that favorite controller on a familiar route and we visualize the controller being just smoking hot. I don't want to meet any of them and ruin the fantasy.

I wrote this gender neutral so everyone can play along.....You know you do it.
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Met an ATC from KHEF in a Bath and Bodyworks of all places. My wife asked her about her Jeep and we struck up a conversation. She was like 42, retired from the military and pretty hot. They're out there.
 
This just in, the President of the United States had no presidential experience prior to becoming president.... Ok maybe a bad example to prove my point.

The FAA is just looking to fill openings, they should be able to fill them with whoever they want! If the FAA was a corporation, I'd venture to say many here would be up in arms if someone mandated they hire only from a certain pool of applicants.

Now the personality tests should be done earlier on like someone else said. It's down right criminal to require someone to invest money to obtain a degree only to be determined to not be a fit. Let's face it though, that's not all that dissimilar to a job interview.

Can these guys and gals who don't make it based the personality test work at contract towers that are not run by FAA controllers?
 
jspilot said:
This just in, the President of the United States had no presidential experience prior to becoming president.... Ok maybe a bad example to prove my point.
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The President of the United States had no experience prior to becoming president...
 
jspilot said:
done earlier on like someone else said. It's down right criminal to require someone to invest money to obtain a degree only to be determined to not be a fit. Let's face it though, that's not all that dissimilar to a job interview.
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Agree. The colleges with ATC programs need to figure out this test and either screen their prospective students ahead of time, or else incorporate "teaching" the personality test into their curriculum so their graduates don't get tripped up in the hiring process.

At my son's college, all ATC graduates must have at least a private pilot license as a prerequisite to graduating. Assuming all other factors are equal, I can't imagine how a non-pilot would be preferred in a control tower over a licensed pilot?
 
College ATC programs are the same scam as college flight programs. 6 months of career training turned into 4 years, with a price to match. Not a huge amount of sympathy for ATC college majors.
 
jspilot said:
This just in, the President of the United States had no presidential experience prior to becoming president.... Ok maybe a bad example to prove my point.
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Perhaps we should insist all presidential candidates go through psychological testing? :yes: :D
 
Norman said:
Perhaps we should insist all presidential candidates go through psychological testing? :yes: :D
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all would fail, both parties.

anyone who spends XXXX millions to get a $400K job needs, well, their head examined.

lying, deceipt, false promises, unwillingness to collaborate with others, etc. All would fail.
 
I asked my dentist today if she had any dental experience prior to dental school. She said "no".

I promptly fired her. I mean, WTH, how can I trust her to work on my teeth without prior experience before dental college?

Geez, the nerve of some people! :rolleyes:
 
roncachamp said:
The President of the United States had no experience prior to becoming president...
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Yea, and take a look. Obama has record poverty, record debt, record income drop, record electricity rates, record low level of home ownership, record food stamps, record disability, Obamacare, IRS & Benghazi, bleed at the border, lost war in Iraq, restarted the cold war, and let Iran get nukes.

You are correct, he has no experience.
 
jspilot said:
...The FAA is just looking to fill openings, they should be able to fill them with whoever they want! If the FAA was a corporation, I'd venture to say many here would be up in arms if someone mandated they hire only from a certain pool of applicants...
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The stockholders of a corporation (i.e., the owners) have every right to express their opinions of corporate hiring practices. The owners of the U.S. government are we the people.
 
RotorAndWing said:
I asked my dentist today if she had any dental experience prior to dental school. She said "no".

I promptly fired her. I mean, WTH, how can I trust her to work on my teeth without prior experience before dental college?

Geez, the nerve of some people! :rolleyes:
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Hey, I pulled a couple of my own teeth when I was a kid. Should I have gone to dental school? :confused:
 
CTLSi said:
Yea, and take a look. Obama has record poverty, record debt, record income drop, record electricity rates, record low level of home ownership, record food stamps, record disability, Obamacare, IRS & Benghazi, bleed at the border, lost war in Iraq, restarted the cold war, and let Iran get nukes.

You are correct, he has no experience.
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Talk about bitter spin...

I also know an amateur boxer who got knocked out by being punched in the nose and then went around bragging about how he had broken his opponent's hand.

Here's an idea: Get a platform, unify around it and actually earn the office in 2016.
 
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