Chevy Bolt (with a Bravo)

[flyingcheesehead]

(NOTE: This is an old thread. Reviving it to provide an update below.)

Time for another EV thread!

Long story short: Recently, my Volt's engine quit (see the Volt thread) and, to keep the story short, I ended up briefly owning two SUVs. I have a 75 mile round trip commute each day and I certainly don't need an SUV to carry myself and my backpack, so I began looking at options.

Another long story short: It turned out that the best option for my mission was a Chevy Bolt. That's the fully electric mini-crossover, not to be confused with the plug-in hybrid hatchback Volt. Bad naming choice on GM's part IMO.

EPA rated range is 259 miles. It was 238 on the 2017-2019 model years, but thanks to the huge amount of R&D going on in the EV and battery spaces right now, LG Chem (GM's battery supplier) now makes cells that have 10% higher energy density. I do have DC fast charging, but it is optional. That's a foolish thing to make optional on an EV, but the truth is I'll likely never use it. Still, it's important IMO to have the option to quick-charge should a mission arise where it would be useful.

GM has also added more charging options to the 2020 model year, such as a driver-settable upper-end charging limit to aid battery longevity and several other convenience options.

Yes, I wish it was a Tesla. However, I don't need my commuter to be a Tesla and I'd rather waste my extra five figures on my airplane, or making our next vehicle a Tesla.

Initial impressions: If a Tesla is hot, the Bolt is lukewarm. 0-60 is 6.5 seconds so it's reasonably quick, but it isn't the same kick in the pants. It's not quite as overtly ugly as many EVs are, and I think GM likely reused the platform and a lot of the components from the Trax compact crossover.

The tech is reasonably nice, and is fairly similar to the 2nd-gen Volt (2016+). There's more control of things from the smartphone app, it has built-in LTE and a WiFi hotspot which would be nice for kids with gadgets. This is my first car with CarPlay, which is way better than the crappy in-car nav systems that used to be the standard. It has lane keep assist, automatic emergency braking, and all of the various alerts and crash prevention stuff that's been coming out the past few years.

I'm really glad to have a heated steering wheel again, and the rear seats are heated as well. When energy conservation is desired, it's much better to keep the occupants warm via heating all the things they're touching than heating the cabin air.

The Bose sound system is quite impressive. I've had premium sound in most of my cars, including Bose, but this one is the best on a car I've owned. Movie soundtrack bass really comes through, and the quality of the system is high enough that I've found that some of my recordings are of substandard quality.

For as much as it does have, though, there are a few glaring omissions. Adaptive Cruise Control, HomeLink, and power seats are not even available as options, and I'd have likely paid for all three if they were.

I'll try to keep this thread updated with further info as I think of it, and longer-term impressions of the car for those who are interested.

 

[Larry in TN]

Most of my reading on EVs has been on Tesla; particularly the Model 3. Could you comment on your decision, and the cost/benefit comparison, between the Bolt and the standard range plus Model 3?

Looks like that one is currently $39,990 before options or any tax incentives. Of course, the Tesla's Federal incentive is gone so that's a big cost advantage to non-Tesla EVs for now.

 

[asicer]

It's not quite as overtly ugly as many EVs are...

If I were in the market for an electric car, a VW e-Golf would be at or near the top of the research list for this very reason.

The only problem is that I'd probably have to walk past a few GTI's and R's and never make it to the e-Golf aisle.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Most of my reading on EVs has been on Tesla; particularly the Model 3. Could you comment on your decision, and the cost/benefit comparison, between the Bolt and the standard range plus Model 3?

Looks like that one is currently $39,990 before options or any tax incentives. Of course, the Tesla's Federal incentive is gone so that's a big cost advantage to non-Tesla EVs for now.

Cost was the big issue. The Bolt's sticker price is higher than the Tesla, but they have huge incentives on it such that I got the Premier with all the bells and whistles for five figures less than the cheapest Tesla.

The biggest thing is being able to make my commute on electric power. My daily commute would cost about $7 in gas in the Rogue (which is what I'd have been driving had I not traded it in on the Bolt), whereas the Bolt would cost about $2.45 if I charged it exclusively at home and will cost $0 if I charge it at work. Add in that very little maintenance is required, and for some reason the insurance is lower despite it being brand new, and the amount saved is enough that it pays for the car.

Really, it was a no-brainer. If I can make the round trip year round completely on electric power that I get for free... So the process went kinda like so:

1) First-gen EVs (Leaf, i3, etc): Not enough range, would have to charge at both ends in the winter to be safe.
2) PHEV and range-extended vehicles: See the whole thing about not burning gas, plus worries about maintenance costs. I've heard some horror stories on the i3 REx. Plus they never had a heated steering wheel, which is a huge help in an EV in the winter - If everything you're touching is warm, you don't have to warm the cabin much.
3) Tesla: Well, the Bolt has longer range than the Model 3 SR+ and was over $10K cheaper. The Model 3 Long Range Dual Motor "3D" has significantly better range but costs over $20K more. The Model 3 is undeniably a much better car, but you can't get them cheap. Even the used ones are still starting at $40K.
4) All that's left is the Bolt. It's by far the most affordable 200+ mile EV at the moment.

There will be more numerous affordable EVs as we move forward with all of the new ones coming out, but right now there are very few other options besides Tesla and Bolt - Porsche Taycan, Jaguar i-Pace, Audi e-Tron, etc. The only other 200+ mile ones that could be called affordable are either only sold in CARB states (Hyundai Kona Electric, for example) or are the Nissan Leaf which is running about $5,000 more for 10% less range than the Bolt right now.

I absolutely wish it was a Tesla... But I can't afford a Tesla as a commuter when I also own an airplane. Hopefully we'll replace the Lexus with a Model Y in a couple years.

 

[AggieMike88]

Does GM do any over the air updates to the car’s software like Tesla does?

This feature was a big selling point on me choosing Tesla this past summer. And what has been provided so far has really added to the positives of owning my M3.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Does GM do any over the air updates to the car’s software like Tesla does?

This feature was a big selling point on me choosing Tesla this past summer. And what has been provided so far has really added to the positives of owning my M3.

Well... Kinda, I guess, theoretically they can. I think my brother has maybe gotten one update to his Bolt in the 3.5ish years he's had it (one of the early adopters, he was...)

But they certainly don't do nearly the pace of improvements that Tesla does, nor the level. Teslas continue to get better and better, and even a 2012 Tesla is still getting updates today. Pretty sure I won't be getting new features in my Bolt eight years from now.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Update...

I've had the Bolt for a bit over a year and a half, and have about 34,000 miles on it already.

The only problem I've had with it was a flat tire.

The maintenance schedule in the manual is a little ridiculous for an EV and was clearly based on an ICEV maintenance schedule, so when I bought the car I looked at the details of the maintenance schedule and decided I'd take it in yearly. I tried to take it in after a year, and the guy at the dealer literally told me: "I don't want to take your money. If it needs something, it will tell you." So, I haven't done anything other than rotate the tires. There's no oil to change, brake pads last pretty much forever due to regenerative braking, and mechanically it's been flawless so far.

Build quality: Well, it's GM. The interior panel of the trunk lid is separating because the handle to pull the trunk down is there and it doesn't appear to be attached as well as it should be with that in mind. I also noticed the front bumper panel popped out on one side a bit the other day so I popped it back in.

Other stuff: Well, the seats are atrocious. Luckily, this car is a commuter. I wouldn't take it on a road trip, though there are other reasons not to do that (charging infrastructure for non-Tesla EVs is still subpar). I have taken it on the 200-mile round trip to my parents' place a couple times though.

That brings us to range, which is probably the #1 question I get asked. It's rated at 259 miles. I don't think I'd get that without paying closer attention to it - I spend a lot of time on the highway, and I drive on the aggressive/fast side a lot of the time. I also only charge to 80% for battery longevity. The guess-o-meter usually has me at around 175 miles at 80%, which would be about 220 at 100%. That seems about right.

The worst case scenario, of course, is winter... And I got to test its limits last winter because one day I apparently didn't plug the plug in all the way and didn't notice that the normal "chirp" confirming the plugin wasn't there. So, I ended up commuting for 2 of the coldest days of the winter, with the heat on full, without charging in between. These are pretty much worst-case conditions, and it still made the 140-mile trip starting from 80% charge, but just barely. So, 175 miles in the dead of winter with a full charge is a reasonable minimum to expect, though some conditions (such as strong headwinds combined with fast driving) could certainly result in less, though you'd almost have to be trying to get it that low.

But at the end of the day... I wish I'd sprung for a Tesla. A bad (heavy traffic) commute on the hard Bolt seat just leaves me drained, and even the Model 3 SR+ would have had the basic Autopilot functionality and a much nicer seat. Plus, it'd have had all of the other stuff Tesla has and others don't: New features via software updates, attractive design, a well planned fast charging network, etc. The difference in price could have been managed somehow, and Teslas are holding their value on the used market incredibly well. Finally, the Model 3 SR+ now has a slightly higher range than the Bolt. Oh well, live and learn. I know what to buy next time...

 

[asicer]

The only problem I've had with it was a flat tire.

Jeez, what a lemon!

I also only charge to 80% for battery longevity.

What are your charging rates (i.e. minutes on the charger per each mile) at home? Away from home?

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Jeez, what a lemon!

What are your charging rates (i.e. minutes on the charger per each mile) at home? Away from home?

Uhhh... No idea, right offhand. In real world driving, this really just doesn't matter. I plug it in when I put it in my garage, I unplug it when I leave, and I leave home with a full "tank" every time. The car is set to charge to 40% immediately, and finish charging to 80% at the time I leave for work in the morning on weekdays, or 9 AM on weekends. Those parameters are good for battery longevity and also result in a warmer battery when I leave for work in the winter, which should give me slightly more energy.

As far as the actual answer... Well, it'll do 7.2kW. Its rated efficiency should mean that it gets 3.45 mi/kWh, so that'd be 24.8 miles per hour of charging in theory at home. With my lead foot I'm probably getting closer to 20, but again, in actual usage its charge rate when plugged in at my house is 0 most of the time - The 70 miles per day or so that I put on it all gets recharged while I sleep, and that would be true even if I completely drained it.

That, of course, assumes L2 (240V AC) charging. On the road, I can do L3 (DC fast charge) but that only goes 50 kW in theory on the Bolt, and on my old BMW i3 (which I did charge that way sometimes due to its shorter range) I found that even the 50kW is realistically more like 38. At 50kW, in theory I'd be getting 172 miles or so per hour. At 38, it's probably only 130. In both cases, as the battery fills up it will slow down.

This is where Tesla really has the rest beat. Their v3 Superchargers are 250kW, and a Model 3 can charge at over 1,000 miles per hour for a short time, and go from empty to 80% in 20 minutes. (No car, or battery for that matter, charges particularly quickly above 80% so it's better to just get on the road at that point...)

 

[A Martin]

National Post just published an interesting article

The big looming problem with old EVs: It’s really, really hard to change the battery (msn.com)

 

[MooneyDriver78]

This is where Tesla really has the rest beat. Their v3 Superchargers are 250kW, and a Model 3 can charge at over 1,000 miles per hour for a short time, and go from empty to 80% in 20 minutes. (No car, or battery for that matter, charges particularly quickly above 80% so it's better to just get on the road at that point...)

I can’t imagine that charging rate is good for the batteries.

I can fill my tank in about a mInute and can go 400 miles on a full tank. I drive long distances on occasion when I can’t fly (bad weather or nowadays I need a car and I don’t want to pay $100/day for economy car). So an electric car for me would be 2nd car. No way would I want to stop every 200 miles for 20 minutes to recharge. I would lease it and eliminate the problem of replacing the batteries.

I’ve heard Washington wants all cars to be electric…they’re nuts.

Why isn’t the companies that make delivery vehicles and vans, which travel only locally, making electric vehicles?

 

[Ted]

Build quality: Well, it's GM.

Yeah, GM and interior quality especially hasn't been very good since the 60s. Right now I'm reading "All Corvettes are Red", a book about the development of the C5 Corvette. It provides an interesting insight into a company literally larger than some states both in terms of land owned and financials. The internal workings at the time (and I'm assuming they haven't changed tremendously) are insane, and it's a wonder they get anything out the door. But it's pretty clear that as a company they are the epitome of "Design by committee" rather than being the vision of one person who has ultimate authority.

They get things right sometimes, and they've got some great technology development capabilities when they want to. But if it's not Corvette or Cadillac, it's going to be at least uninspiring, and even then those two will get it wrong at times. Some of the division pet best cars like the Camaro may get glimmers of hope, but... meh.

 

[NoBShere]

We recently leased a full ev for our around town car. We ended up with a Kia niro. Has some odd feature omissions, no auto opening/closing trunk, no rear window washer but it does have a wiper, heater/ac is weak but has vented seats. Thought about a Tesla and a polestar but, I know I don’t take good care of my cars cosmetically speaking and it’s just going to get door dings and road wear so we went with a “grocery getter”. As a commute car, errand runner the only real performance measure for me is acceleration for merging onto freeway and I think most EV’s have that covered. And ev’s are so smooth. And no more stopping at a gas station, free charge at work and/or charge at home and always full charge in the morning. At over 200 mile range, I don’t drive 200 miles a day unless on a road trip and there is another car for that and one less car to slither under to change the oil. No way could it be our only car until there are more rapid chargers available and real range above 300 miles, probably five years until that is common.

the real question now is can we get to our mountain house in the summer that is about 180 miles away on a full charge estimated at 250ish. I just don’t know what the climb up the mountain will due to the battery. Won’t even consider a winter trip.

 

[AggieMike88]

But at the end of the day... I wish I'd sprung for a Tesla.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Why isn’t the companies that make delivery vehicles and vans, which travel only locally, making electric vehicles?

Some are... But not nearly enough. Those vehicles are perfect for electrification. Lots of starts and stops mean they'd save a TON of money on fuel and brake pads thanks to regenerative braking.

They do tend to be big and boxy (if you're thinking about the UPS/FedEx style) but I would think an electric Sprinter van would be a real win for a lot of companies.

Apparently Ford agreed: https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom...aanERLJQIwlNuOz218_8rKmVLx8M-lVQaAryGEALw_wcB

And now that Ford has made their announcement, Mercedes is in fact bringing an e-Sprinter to the US: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a34904439/mercedes-benz-sprinter-electric-coming-us/

That also says that Amazon has ordered 100,000 electric delivery vans from Rivian as well. So, it's coming. Finally.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Welp... The Bolt journey is over.

GM had earlier recalled some older Bolts over concerns about some battery fires that occurred... But this was mostly limited to earlier Bolts with Korean-made batteries. Last year, they had issued two software updates for those cars: The first to restrict the maximum charge levels to 90%, the second to remove that restriction and provide some unknown fix.

Well, that didn't work - Some of the "fixed" cars burned. So they re-recalled all of the 2017-2019 cars with Korean made batteries in August.

Then, after they did that, they had fires on both US based and 2020 batteries (which were different), so they expanded the recall to ALL Bolts, stopped production, and issued a "stop sale" prohibiting all of their dealers from selling any new or used Bolts.

It doesn't look good for them: LG Chem, who produces the batteries, knows that some cells have a torn anode, some have a folded separator, and the fires occur when a cell with both defects is charged up past 90% and swells just slightly in such a way that it causes an internal short. However, they do not know what happens during manufacturing to cause either of those defects. In addition, there is currently no non-destructive test to find those defects after manufacturing. So, it's unknown when they'll even be able to start producing fixed cells.

GM has said that the eventual fix will involve replacing all five battery modules on all Bolts, in a priority order based on how likely they think a car is to burn given its history and usage. But, there's no timeframe for when that will even start, and I would not be in the top half of that list because I had a 2020, which so far seems to be less susceptible. So, I'm expecting that my Bolt would have taken 1-3 years to get fixed. That would have at least come with a new battery and a new warranty, but I was already tiring of the crummy seats and lack of adaptive cruise (see post #7).

The options GM offers to those who own Bolts depend somewhat on where you live and your state's lemon laws, from the sound of it, but seem to be the following:

1) "MSRP Swap" to another vehicle. You work with a dealer to find another GM vehicle on their lot that you'd like, and they give you the full original MSRP of your Bolt towards the MSRP of the vehicle you choose, and you just pay the difference.
2) Buyback - They buy the car back, with the amount you get for it being based on what you paid and how many miles are on it.
3) GM loaner vehicle - You take your car to a GM dealer, take one of their loaner vehicles, and they store your Bolt there.
4) Rental - You rent a vehicle and GM reimburses you. I think this one also requires you to store the Bolt at a GM dealer.
5) Keep your Bolt, wait for the battery fix, and if you follow GM's recommendations, you'll keep the charge level in between 30%-90%, park and charge outside.

Well, going down the list:

1) I kinda "need" an electric vehicle because I have a long commute. The whole reason I bought the Bolt was that the difference in fuel and maintenance alone compared to an ICEV would pay for the car. And GM has no other electric vehicles shipping right now (their next one to ship is the Hummer EV.)
2) Sounds like a good idea... And kind of what I was hoping for once I decided I'd rather have bought a base model Tesla - I decided that I'd go for the buyback if it was ever offered, most likely.
3) The loaner vehicles were all taken by the people whose cars were recalled earlier.
4) GM is not putting anything on paper for this. Rumor has it you have to get a GM vehicle, it has to come through Enterprise, and/or it has to be at or below $46/day... But basically, you foot the bill, and eventually you will get to "apply for" reimbursement from GM, with no guarantee of a 100% reimbursement.
5) I don't have the ability to park and charge outside.

So, I looked into what I would get for a buyback from GM. *If* I were to get a buyback offer, it sounds like that number would be $21,010. However, my state has weak lemon laws, and I'm not aware of anyone successfully getting a buyback here.

So, I took it to CarMax, who offered me $21,000. I'm not going to risk it and fight with GM for potentially months for $10. Sold!

Now, the other dilemma was - What to get next? Like I said above, aside from liking electric driving anyway, it makes a huge difference in operating costs for my commute, so I didn't look at too many gas vehicles - Especially since even a base model Prius would require enough gas, it'd cost within $16/month of what a Tesla would cost.

So, I looked at what's out there. I was able to eliminate about half of the currently shipping vehicles, including the Ford Mach-E and the VW ID.4, because they *also* use LG pouch cells, and would likely be subject to a recall.

In addition, anything electric that had even adaptive cruise has a sticker price of $45K on up right now, and the market SUCKS for buying a car right now. No discounts to be had due to lack of supply.

With all that - The Tesla Model 3 Standard Range Plus was looking like the *cheapest* option! The only problem was the delivery timeframe of January.

Then, Tesla released a limited number of new M3 SR+ cars with the LFP (lithium iron phosphate) battery they've been using in China and Europe (I'll put more of that into the Tesla Model 3 thread) into inventory here in the US, so I jumped on one and I should take delivery within the next week! The LFP battery is designed to be constantly charged to 100% and be able to go through WAY more charge cycles. It's a hair less efficient and a hair heavier so the car's range is 253 miles instead of 263, but the battery should take forever to degrade, and since you don't need to charge to less than 100%, normal range will actually be longer. I'm really looking forward to it!

 

[JOhnH]

Welp... The Bolt journey is over.

snip

Then, Tesla released a limited number of new M3 SR+ cars with the LFP (lithium iron phosphate) battery they've been using in China and Europe (I'll put more of that into the Tesla Model 3 thread) into inventory here in the US, so I jumped on one and I should take delivery within the next week! The LFP battery is designed to be constantly charged to 100% and be able to go through WAY more charge cycles. It's a hair less efficient and a hair heavier so the car's range is 253 miles instead of 263, but the battery should take forever to degrade, and since you don't need to charge to less than 100%, normal range will actually be longer. I'm really looking forward to it!

Sounds like a plan. A REALLY good plan.

 

[Ted]

Never buy the A model of anything.

It would be easy for me to point at this being a likely common problem among electric cars for the foreseeable future, and I don't think it would be unfair to say that, either. But to be fair, we also all know of other "fuel system" issues with gasoline vehicles that were highly publicized problems, the Pinto being the most notable. It seems like this was just an engineering/manufacturing error, and will fall under "lessons learned" that will improve things in the future when they figure it out.

Sometimes, I really have to scratch my head at how recalls came to happen in the first place. My Ram is part of a recall for the side curtain airbags. As I understand from the articles, a company bought out the assets of Takata when they declared bankruptcy (those assets included airbags) and then sold those assets (airbags) to manufacturers to put in new cars. Someone should go to jail for this.

Good luck with the Tesla. I'll make sure to drive internal combustion engine vehicles enough to offset your lack of carbon footprint.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Never buy the A model of anything.

Heh... Well, this was kinda the B model. Supposedly had an updated chemistry and higher capacity than the 2017-2019 Bolts. In fact, many of the die-hard (heh) Bolt owners with the older ones who are just going to keep them are rejoicing because when they get their batteries replaced, they'll end up with a higher capacity battery than they started with.

It would be easy for me to point at this being a likely common problem among electric cars for the foreseeable future, and I don't think it would be unfair to say that, either.

Not at all. This is one of those things where it seems each manufacturer is learning their lessons as they go, and some of those lessons are very hard. EVs are more different than anything they've done in a long time. Really, cars have had nothing but incremental improvements for a REALLY long time, and changing to an entirely different type of drivetrain is going to have some growing pains involved.

It seems like some manufacturers have sat back and waited for others to do things first, but by doing so they aren't learning their lessons... I don't think anyone is going to be able to just jump into the EV market unscathed.

Even Tesla had some fires early on due to battery packs getting punctured by road debris, but they added a titanium plate to the underside of the battery and changed the software on their air suspensions to not ride quite so low on the highway. These days, Tesla fires are incredibly rare.

Elon Musk's comments on pouch cells are interesting.

Sometimes, I really have to scratch my head at how recalls came to happen in the first place. My Ram is part of a recall for the side curtain airbags. As I understand from the articles, a company bought out the assets of Takata when they declared bankruptcy (those assets included airbags) and then sold those assets (airbags) to manufacturers to put in new cars. Someone should go to jail for this.

Holy crap. Wow.

Good luck with the Tesla. I'll make sure to drive internal combustion engine vehicles enough to offset your lack of carbon footprint.

 

[EdFred]

When meeting someone new have you decided whether you are going to tell them you are a pilot first or that you drive a Tesla first? Maybe you should also cut meat from your diet as well so you have 3 options to lead with that no one gives a **** about.

 

[asicer]

When meeting someone new have you decided whether you are going to tell them you are a pilot first or that you drive a Tesla first? Maybe you should also cut meat from your diet as well so you have 3 options to lead with that no one gives a **** about.

I like that he has options: Offend the tree-huggers that he's putting tetra-ethyl lead into the atmosphere and offend the petrol-heads with his overgrown golf cart.

 

[AggieMike88]

You’re gonna love way more about your M3 than just the battery design.

I have had mine for 2 years now. And in several respects, it isn’t the car I purchased. It’s better.

And the instant torque and massive acceleration still makes me giggle with glee.

 

[Matthew Johnson]

I like that he has options: Offend the tree-huggers that he's putting tetra-ethyl lead into the atmosphere and offend the petrol-heads with his overgrown golf cart.

As both a petrol head and a bit of a tree hugger, i see this as balance!

 

[Ted]

Heh... Well, this was kinda the B model. Supposedly had an updated chemistry and higher capacity than the 2017-2019 Bolts. In fact, many of the die-hard (heh) Bolt owners with the older ones who are just going to keep them are rejoicing because when they get their batteries replaced, they'll end up with a higher capacity battery than they started with.

I think to me all of these are close enough to A models... (more below)

Not at all. This is one of those things where it seems each manufacturer is learning their lessons as they go, and some of those lessons are very hard. EVs are more different than anything they've done in a long time. Really, cars have had nothing but incremental improvements for a REALLY long time, and changing to an entirely different type of drivetrain is going to have some growing pains involved.

Yes, that's the thing. Electric cars are a lot closer to where gasoline cars were 100 years ago, where a lot of the basic understandings of how to design things were being done. Obviously the refinement and controls are a lot higher out of the gate, but those are in line with other production vehicles. In the past 20 years, most of the changes have been following government mandates along safety and emissions/efficiency, with the remainder being in terms of interior/infotainment systems, rather than the drivetrain (other than as required for emissions/efficiency). If I compare my 2017 Ram vs. 2004, both bought brand new from the dealer with ~10 miles on them, the 2017 really isn't much different other than the interior/infotainment. If anything, in some ways my 2004 drove better when it was new.

 

[Larry in TN]

With all that - The Tesla Model 3 Standard Range Plus was looking like the *cheapest* option! The only problem was the delivery timeframe of January.

The estimated delivery times are all over the place. I ordered a Model 3 LR on 7/26 when it was estimating delivery in November. I'm now scheduled for delivery next week. The actual wait times have been varying by model, options, and delivery locations.

If you haven't already, checkout the forums at https://teslamotorsclub.com/. Very active forum with tons of information about the cars.

Then, Tesla released a limited number of new M3 SR+ cars with the LFP (lithium iron phosphate) battery they've been using in China and Europe (I'll put more of that into the Tesla Model 3 thread) into inventory here in the US, so I jumped on one and I should take delivery within the next week!

I don't know a lot about the LFP battery but it sounds like a great option for the SR+. The batteries are larger & heavier per unit of capacity but they end up giving almost the exact same range in the SR+ which filling the space available for batteries. In the non-LFP SR+ the battery space isn't fully utilized.

I hope you'll come back here and relate your initial impressions once you've received your car.

 

[exncsurfer]

You busted a bravo in a what? Wait I read that wrong, never mind, carry on....

 

[flyingcheesehead]

As both a petrol head and a bit of a tree hugger, i see this as balance!

Yeah, it's like I'm buying carbon credits to offset my flying... Only I'm buying them from myself.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Yes, that's the thing. Electric cars are a lot closer to where gasoline cars were 100 years ago, where a lot of the basic understandings of how to design things were being done. Obviously the refinement and controls are a lot higher out of the gate, but those are in line with other production vehicles. In the past 20 years, most of the changes have been following government mandates along safety and emissions/efficiency, with the remainder being in terms of interior/infotainment systems, rather than the drivetrain (other than as required for emissions/efficiency). If I compare my 2017 Ram vs. 2004, both bought brand new from the dealer with ~10 miles on them, the 2017 really isn't much different other than the interior/infotainment. If anything, in some ways my 2004 drove better when it was new.

Exactly!

I've been following Tesla for a while now - Probably since early 2015, after I got my first plug-in vehicle (Ford Fusion Energi) in late 2014 and really liked it. It's been interesting watching them learn things. A few that I remember:

* When they went from "Insane Mode" to "Ludicrous Mode" on the Model S, they needed to build the battery contactor out of special materials to so it could pass 1600 amps (!) instead of just 1300.
* Eliminating manufacturing complexity during the Model 3 production ramp. Bye bye, "flufferbot". This is one area where the established car manufacturers have a big leg up on Tesla - They already knew how to produce a lot of complex things.
* I had always wondered why such a relatively high-performance car had as low of a max speed as the Ludicrous Model S (155 mph). Well, they explained it when they introduced the new Plaid model S recently - At those speeds, the motor was going so fast that going much faster would cause it to literally pull itself apart! The new Plaid models can go 200mph because the rotor is encased in a carbon-fiber bag to hold it together.

I know there were plenty of lessons learned earlier too, during the original Roadster days.

Really, I think the biggest challenge most OEMs will have is with batteries. Tesla's approach, starting with a very high cost, very low volume car and moving to a high cost, low-ish volume car before going mass market helped them out greatly, as they were able to make improvements to the whole fleet when necessary while remaining profitable. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see one of the traditional OEMs get into some big financial difficulties as a result of the transition to EVs. The Bolt recall is a good example, though GM has only sold about 150,000 Bolts so far it's going to cost them in the billions to fix this, despite being pretty well set up for success given their prior experience with the EV1 and their "get in early and slow" strategy. Some of the players who have waited until now are likely to have more rude awakenings over the next decade.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

An case anyone is looking for the rest of the story... It's here: https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/tesla-model-3-finally.134268/