TylerSC
Pre-takeoff checklist
I am planning to list this plane for sale on Controller and Barnstormers in January, but I wanted to give my forum friends a chance to be aware that it is coming onto the market soon. Also I'd rather sell it to a pilot or student than a broker. I am selling it to get a bigger and faster plane because I am starting to feel ready to carry my family places, and so I can better participate in Pilots n Paws, Young Eagles, and other charitable program flights.
1965 PA-28-140 - VFR only - can be seen in the videos here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwgcHKCoPX60bA3alWHkZkA
Approx. 180 SMOH - I've had it since 7 SMOH, which was a field overhaul with some new bottom end parts. It came with one low (60's) cylinder at the time which had a bad exhaust valve seat, so I had the cylinder replaced in Feb. 2018. It runs great. You'll want to read the logs for yourself so I'll leave it at that. I've done probably 50 hours since the new cylinder. Changed oil ~ every 25 hours with Aeroshell W100 Plus, Camguard, and Avblend. Has never made any metal since overhaul. It starts right up with 3-4 shots of primer - no throttle pumping or "tricks" to get it started. Starts even easier when hot. See videos. I fly it all the time, short hops, longer trips, grass strips, you name it. I flew it 6.5 hours last Saturday for Operation Airdrop, in turbulence at 2500 feet and in smooth air at 8500 feet, full fuel and filled to the ceiling in the back with emergency supplies and still WELL below gross.
TTAF is about 2300. Basically this plane was sitting inside somewhere in Michigan for many years. Then a guy from NC bought it and had the engine overhauled in 2014. He put seven hours on it, then he bought a Cherokee 180 and didn't fly this one for a little over a year. Then I bought it in early 2016. As I flew it, old things started breaking and I paid a bunch of money to fix them. This did not greatly increase the value of the plane, but I have knocked all the rust off for you.
You could still spend twice again what I've put into it and it won't be like a new one, but that's the nature of these older airframes. Personally I recommend this plane to someone who is taking lessons and wants a plane to train in, do the checkride, and do 100 hours or so as PIC to build time and experience. The plane cruises at 100 kts at 8 GPH and 110 kts at 9 GPH. It feels happiest at around 105 kts. It burns about 1 quart of oil every 12 hours.
The paint looks surprisingly good for a typical original paint job. It looks like the tanks were repainted when they were removed in 1997 for the corrosion check. There are some spots where the paint is thin, and there are some dings and a very small amount of hail dimples (5-6 per wing, none on fuselage, stabilator, or cowling). The leading edges of the stabilator appear to be repainted. On the ramp it looks really good and bright. It does not need a paint job, and it would be foolish to paint it in my opinion, unless you plan to keep it forever, or do it yourself.
The interior was redone in the 90's with what appears to be Airtex carpet and seats. The side panels appear to be original and are in fair condition. I would leave it like it is, but if you want to make it really nice it'll cost you a couple thousand for new Airtex stuff. No rips, tears, etc. The headliner in is really good condition. It does not "need" to be updated to serve as a good airplane.
This is a good trainer for several reasons. It costs the same as a Cessna 150, but will carry two full grown men (like a student and CFI), plus a full 50 gallons of fuel, plus your flight bag, small cooler, whatever. It is a little roomier in width than a 172. It is easy to fly. It is very easy to land, especially in a crosswind. It has never, not one time, bounced after touchdown when I have flown it. During training I have landed flat a few times, especially in night training, with no real flare, and it just goes "bump" and stays stuck to the ground. The struts soak up a lot of energy. It has excellent visibility. I like the manual flaps because you control the speed at which the flaps deploy and retract, and they are extremely reliable. It has good range and can carry a surprising amount of stuff (see my Triple Tree camping video and operation airdrop video). Short field and grass strip performance is surprisingly good. Very low stalling speed. Very benign stall characteristics. Lights up like a Christmas tree at night.
Most importantly, you should not have to put anything other than fuel and oil into this plane to keep it flying.
It is also a pretty good plane for a sole pilot or couple who just want to go to fly-ins, burger runs, sightseeing, overnight/weekend trips, etc.
On the other hand, while the instruments are more than sufficient for night flying and even inadvertent VFR -> IMC, you won't be getting your IR in this plane, and it can get a little tiresome hand-flying it after a couple hours with no autopilot, especially in summer here in the southeast. You can, however, build hood time all you want with a safety pilot, so if you come into IR training with 20 hours of hood time you'll save a ton of money.
Updates:
-new lightweight high-powered starter + wiring
-new Garmin GTR 225 (comm only) - it really makes learning to handle the radio easier when you are not fighting a 30 year old analog radio. Built in 2-place intercom. You can hear it on the videos, it has excellent sound quality. Music aux-in on panel. Also you don't have to do VOR navigation for your checkride!
- new battery
- new master switch + wiring
- new electric fuel pump, new fuel pump switch on panel + wiring
- LED landing light, position lights, rear white light has flashing feature - I leave them all on, all the time and it they draw very little power.
- older Whelen strobe on tail works great
- new front seat belts with new shoulder harnesses w/intertia reel (3pt system). They are very nice belts and were the first thing I did to it.
- new fuel drains
- new fuel cap gaskets
- new fire extinguisher
- spin-on oil filter, quick drain sump
- new vernier mixture control
- probably some other things I am forgetting
Good:
-tires + tubes
- struts
- electrical
- attitude indicator, vacuum system/gauge, directional gyro, turn indicator, VSI, tachometer, fuel gauges, oil pressure/fuel pressure/oil temp gauges, ammeter, wet compass, stall warning light, OAT, ASI
- cigarette lighter = good power source
- engine incl. mags, has newer spark plug harness
- radio
- fuel and oil lines, hoses
- airframe and skins - no weeping rivets, no cracks, no corrosion
- fuel tanks - no leaks, no water, no debris, shiny inside
- documented maintenance history
- complete logs to day 1 including all replacement parts over the years - no damage history noted
- useful load ~900 lbs
- prop
- windshield and windows very good
- shimmy damper
- brakes (handbrake only - which I have not found to be difficult to use in any way due to the fixed steering of the Cherokee)
- cabin ventilation
- intercom
- glareshield
- rigging (flies straight)
- corrosion free
- hangared and history of being hangared, obviously, when you see it
- door and window seals including pilot window
- all fairings, wingtips, stab tips, wheel pants, cowling, air intake, etc in decent to very good condition
Bad:
- pilot's seat sags a little
- I should have replaced the throttle control when I added the vernier mixture control - it works fine but the shaft gets rusty from my sweaty hands and I have to wipe with oil. It doesn't stick or anything.
- carb heat control can be sticky but works - needs replaced in a couple years - I might do this and the throttle at annual for ~$500
- struts stick - this is apparently normal per everyone I've talked to. They have adequate pressure and do not leak, but sometimes one sticks fully extended and you have to swing the nose side to side while taxiing back to the hangar to get it to drop down. If the nose sticks you have to pump the brake a couple times to drop it down. I do this automatically now and it doesn't bother me.
- parking brake doesn't work perfectly so you have to hold the brake to do run-up. It holds the plane at idle or when starting the engine.
- INOP VOR indicator (no VOR radio, it actually did work before I pulled the old radio), INOP aftermarket CHT gauge (needs new probes but still works), INOP Garmin 155XL TSO (bricked, who knows).
- exhaust looks pretty old, if I had to guess what would have to be replaced next it would be the exhaust. But there are no holes or leaks.
- cabin heat INOP (defroster works)
Come see it, come fly it, I will fly it to you within reason, send photos, logs, etc. - let me know what you need.
1965 PA-28-140 - VFR only - can be seen in the videos here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwgcHKCoPX60bA3alWHkZkA
Approx. 180 SMOH - I've had it since 7 SMOH, which was a field overhaul with some new bottom end parts. It came with one low (60's) cylinder at the time which had a bad exhaust valve seat, so I had the cylinder replaced in Feb. 2018. It runs great. You'll want to read the logs for yourself so I'll leave it at that. I've done probably 50 hours since the new cylinder. Changed oil ~ every 25 hours with Aeroshell W100 Plus, Camguard, and Avblend. Has never made any metal since overhaul. It starts right up with 3-4 shots of primer - no throttle pumping or "tricks" to get it started. Starts even easier when hot. See videos. I fly it all the time, short hops, longer trips, grass strips, you name it. I flew it 6.5 hours last Saturday for Operation Airdrop, in turbulence at 2500 feet and in smooth air at 8500 feet, full fuel and filled to the ceiling in the back with emergency supplies and still WELL below gross.
TTAF is about 2300. Basically this plane was sitting inside somewhere in Michigan for many years. Then a guy from NC bought it and had the engine overhauled in 2014. He put seven hours on it, then he bought a Cherokee 180 and didn't fly this one for a little over a year. Then I bought it in early 2016. As I flew it, old things started breaking and I paid a bunch of money to fix them. This did not greatly increase the value of the plane, but I have knocked all the rust off for you.
You could still spend twice again what I've put into it and it won't be like a new one, but that's the nature of these older airframes. Personally I recommend this plane to someone who is taking lessons and wants a plane to train in, do the checkride, and do 100 hours or so as PIC to build time and experience. The plane cruises at 100 kts at 8 GPH and 110 kts at 9 GPH. It feels happiest at around 105 kts. It burns about 1 quart of oil every 12 hours.
The paint looks surprisingly good for a typical original paint job. It looks like the tanks were repainted when they were removed in 1997 for the corrosion check. There are some spots where the paint is thin, and there are some dings and a very small amount of hail dimples (5-6 per wing, none on fuselage, stabilator, or cowling). The leading edges of the stabilator appear to be repainted. On the ramp it looks really good and bright. It does not need a paint job, and it would be foolish to paint it in my opinion, unless you plan to keep it forever, or do it yourself.
The interior was redone in the 90's with what appears to be Airtex carpet and seats. The side panels appear to be original and are in fair condition. I would leave it like it is, but if you want to make it really nice it'll cost you a couple thousand for new Airtex stuff. No rips, tears, etc. The headliner in is really good condition. It does not "need" to be updated to serve as a good airplane.
This is a good trainer for several reasons. It costs the same as a Cessna 150, but will carry two full grown men (like a student and CFI), plus a full 50 gallons of fuel, plus your flight bag, small cooler, whatever. It is a little roomier in width than a 172. It is easy to fly. It is very easy to land, especially in a crosswind. It has never, not one time, bounced after touchdown when I have flown it. During training I have landed flat a few times, especially in night training, with no real flare, and it just goes "bump" and stays stuck to the ground. The struts soak up a lot of energy. It has excellent visibility. I like the manual flaps because you control the speed at which the flaps deploy and retract, and they are extremely reliable. It has good range and can carry a surprising amount of stuff (see my Triple Tree camping video and operation airdrop video). Short field and grass strip performance is surprisingly good. Very low stalling speed. Very benign stall characteristics. Lights up like a Christmas tree at night.
Most importantly, you should not have to put anything other than fuel and oil into this plane to keep it flying.
It is also a pretty good plane for a sole pilot or couple who just want to go to fly-ins, burger runs, sightseeing, overnight/weekend trips, etc.
On the other hand, while the instruments are more than sufficient for night flying and even inadvertent VFR -> IMC, you won't be getting your IR in this plane, and it can get a little tiresome hand-flying it after a couple hours with no autopilot, especially in summer here in the southeast. You can, however, build hood time all you want with a safety pilot, so if you come into IR training with 20 hours of hood time you'll save a ton of money.
Updates:
-new lightweight high-powered starter + wiring
-new Garmin GTR 225 (comm only) - it really makes learning to handle the radio easier when you are not fighting a 30 year old analog radio. Built in 2-place intercom. You can hear it on the videos, it has excellent sound quality. Music aux-in on panel. Also you don't have to do VOR navigation for your checkride!
- new battery
- new master switch + wiring
- new electric fuel pump, new fuel pump switch on panel + wiring
- LED landing light, position lights, rear white light has flashing feature - I leave them all on, all the time and it they draw very little power.
- older Whelen strobe on tail works great
- new front seat belts with new shoulder harnesses w/intertia reel (3pt system). They are very nice belts and were the first thing I did to it.
- new fuel drains
- new fuel cap gaskets
- new fire extinguisher
- spin-on oil filter, quick drain sump
- new vernier mixture control
- probably some other things I am forgetting
Good:
-tires + tubes
- struts
- electrical
- attitude indicator, vacuum system/gauge, directional gyro, turn indicator, VSI, tachometer, fuel gauges, oil pressure/fuel pressure/oil temp gauges, ammeter, wet compass, stall warning light, OAT, ASI
- cigarette lighter = good power source
- engine incl. mags, has newer spark plug harness
- radio
- fuel and oil lines, hoses
- airframe and skins - no weeping rivets, no cracks, no corrosion
- fuel tanks - no leaks, no water, no debris, shiny inside
- documented maintenance history
- complete logs to day 1 including all replacement parts over the years - no damage history noted
- useful load ~900 lbs
- prop
- windshield and windows very good
- shimmy damper
- brakes (handbrake only - which I have not found to be difficult to use in any way due to the fixed steering of the Cherokee)
- cabin ventilation
- intercom
- glareshield
- rigging (flies straight)
- corrosion free
- hangared and history of being hangared, obviously, when you see it
- door and window seals including pilot window
- all fairings, wingtips, stab tips, wheel pants, cowling, air intake, etc in decent to very good condition
Bad:
- pilot's seat sags a little
- I should have replaced the throttle control when I added the vernier mixture control - it works fine but the shaft gets rusty from my sweaty hands and I have to wipe with oil. It doesn't stick or anything.
- carb heat control can be sticky but works - needs replaced in a couple years - I might do this and the throttle at annual for ~$500
- struts stick - this is apparently normal per everyone I've talked to. They have adequate pressure and do not leak, but sometimes one sticks fully extended and you have to swing the nose side to side while taxiing back to the hangar to get it to drop down. If the nose sticks you have to pump the brake a couple times to drop it down. I do this automatically now and it doesn't bother me.
- parking brake doesn't work perfectly so you have to hold the brake to do run-up. It holds the plane at idle or when starting the engine.
- INOP VOR indicator (no VOR radio, it actually did work before I pulled the old radio), INOP aftermarket CHT gauge (needs new probes but still works), INOP Garmin 155XL TSO (bricked, who knows).
- exhaust looks pretty old, if I had to guess what would have to be replaced next it would be the exhaust. But there are no holes or leaks.
- cabin heat INOP (defroster works)
Come see it, come fly it, I will fly it to you within reason, send photos, logs, etc. - let me know what you need.
Last edited:
