Chemistry of stickers and sticky residue (NA)

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Brad W

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non-aviation topic...well sort of. Airplanes have stickers and graphics too....

Help please. I need to learn about solvents and the chemistry of sticky residue from stickers.

I'm trying to prep my class C motorhome to repaint. It's a 2013 model and the weather has not been kind to the horrible cheap whatever it is finish. Some sort of smooth sided fiberglass panels, I don't think they are gel coated...think it's something else...and not painted.

Anyway the swoosh vinyl stickers look bad too, and need to come off before painting. I've managed to get some of them removed several months ago, and need to get back onto the job. My problem is getting the sticky residue off.

I've tried every solvent I had at the time
acetone
goof off
goo gone
mek (I think I had some of the real stuff, but now can only find the other stuff)
lacquer thinner
gasoline
and probably a few others have slipped my mind
I even ordered some overpriced stuff from amazon meant for stickers

nothing seems to touch it. I feel like gasoline + a lot of elbow grease was about the best, but it was still slow going

I also tried a heat gun and putty knife...which sort of worked but heated the surface far too much and didn't totally work anyway.

The last thing I've thought to try is to get a sheet of plastic, douse the surface with the above list of solvents one at a time and cover it tightly with plastic to prevent flashing and keep it wet for an extended period of time

there has to be a better way
and I know there are some smart folks here....
thanks
 
Kitchen oils (e.g., cheap olive oil) can be quite effective, as the residues are often lipid-soluble.
 
Brad W said:
nothing seems to touch it.
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Make sure your decals didn't separate when you removed them. Sometimes it can leave a barrier behind that prevents any solvent from soaking into the adhesive.
Also make sure the adhesive has not "bonded" with the underlying panel material. Be mindful of that material using solvents.
If the olive oil doesn't work as mentioned look for some Toluene if your state permits its sale. Gloves, googles, and ventilation are a must.
Or you can talk to the shop or supplier you'll be getting your paint from to see what they can offer??
 
islandboy said:
Kitchen oils (e.g., cheap olive oil) can be quite effective, as the residues are often lipid-soluble.
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I usually form a paste using canola oil and baking soda to remove labels off of kitchen jars. Particularly stubborn ones, I'd put the paste in a bag along with the jar, give it a good rub and then let sit overnight. I wouldn't use olive oil because even the cheap stuff is more expensive than other cooking oils and I suspect the lipid count might be a little less.
 
add to my list mineral spirits

GeorgeC said:
Try WD40 or kerosene?

See also,
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/marking-hangar-floor.138436/#post-3267136
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Yep, wd-40 was one of the first things I tried. forgot to list it.
Don't believe I tried kerosene. I'll try to get a bit...and maybe some diesel fuel as well...

islandboy said:
Kitchen oils (e.g., cheap olive oil) can be quite effective, as the residues are often lipid-soluble.
Click to expand...
I'll give that a shot! that's the kind of chemistry approach I was wondering about!
I suppose all those paint store solvents and the gasoline too are hydrocarbon/pertroleum based so that might explain why they all seem to have the same affect.... which is nearly nothing
and if that doesn't work.....
I just had a thought...wonder if steam might do something.....

Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
3M Stripe Off Wheel
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I actually bought one of those too and tried it. It gets the vinyl off but just sort of smears the sticky stuff. I found that a putty scraper on an oscillating tool is a bit faster but carries a risk of a little bit of surface scratching now and then. I am using the 3M wheel on the cab painted surfaces though. It does a wonderful job of getting the vinyl off it seems without paint damage. Some residue is still left behind though...but not as much on the painted surfaces.
 
If you're going to repaint it anyway why not just spray some aircraft paint remover on it and it'll take everything off
 
You've tried a lot of petroleum solvents. I'd try a few more that are polar/water based. I'd try denatured alcohol, and believe it or not 3M disinfectant cleaner, which is a ammonium chloride cleaner, or just a test spot with Bactine, which is the same stuff. Basically, it's really good detergent.

I'm no chemist, but maybe the fiberglass is or was leaching out something that mixed with the glue from the decals to make something miserably sticky. Some epoxies leach amines when they're new, and those can be a pita to remove. I think alcohol based cleaners are most successful with those, but not sure.
 
I didn't think paint remover would get through the vinyl layer very well....but yeah, maybe it will. Or it least maybe it would get at the residue we're I've mechanically removed the vinyl. I don't have any aircraft grade stuff, but I'll try some hardware store stuff.

alcohol...add that to those I couldn't remember that I had already tried....I did try isopropyl alcohol (the concentrated stuff)...as well as hand sanitizer gel (which I suppose is the same). No luck. I didn't think I tried ethyl though.....

ha ha, bactine. I'll give it a shot! I already went through my garage shelf and my cleaning supply cabinets trying pretty much all of it...but I failed to consider the first aid cabinet!!
 
Brad W said:
I didn't think paint remover would get through the vinyl layer very well
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FYI: if you're not removing the vinyl decal before attempting to use those solvents on the adhesive you are spinning your wheels. Need to mechanically remove all the decal first. If the vinyl portion will not pull off in large pieces one trick is to hold a rag with a volatile solvent on an area then immediatly try to scrape it off.
 
Since you are prepping for new paint job, try paint stripper...I use it only as a last resort, but it will usually get the job done.
 
Get some of this stuff, It has never failed to remove all adhesives that I have used it on.

I have done lot's of decal work over the years, big work tanker trucks, race car trailers and race cars etc.
I removed the 40 year old skyhawks off both sides of my 172 with it, no easy feat. I removed all of the contact adhesive from the door seals off my 172 with this stuff. It works so well and won't hurt paint or plastic windows. Buy it at a auto paint store is where I get it. I have used many gallons over the years. Won't hurt your hands, smells pretty good. A little goes a long way, you may not need a gallon?(You will need a gallon for RV now that re read your post) I used about 5oz to remove all the door seal adhesive from 3 doors.
IMG_0055.JPG

Before...
IMG_0061.JPG

Does not hurt the paint or anything else.
IMG_0066.JPG

This is how cessna doors look with no seals or adhesive. I did not remove any paint.
IMG_0054.JPG
 
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I also have used the eraser, it is more made to remove the vinyl decal not the adhesive.
I found it easier to use the solvent on top of the vinyl and skip the eraser.
When vinyl is old and thin the eraser is not going to work well and you do risk damaging the paint job. That's where this adhesive remover works, on old thin decals to help soften and lift them. I use lot's of soft old towels to remove the adhesive, don't scrape cause you will leave gouges.
MVC-022S-4.jpg

MVC-020S-4.jpg
 
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Another tool I have used for vertical adhesive removal is a heated pressure washer. On larger trucks and trailers outside. I still soak the decals/adhesive with the solvent, try to let the solvent dwell on the surface as long as possible. So I re apply it a few times then if I have a lot to do I use a heated pressure washer. Oil fired and can put out steam. Still have finish with towel and solvent but speeds it up.

MVC-030S-6.jpg
 
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The chemistry of the adhesive and the panel may have formed some type of soft polymer. Bonded as @Bell206 mentioned. To get rid of it, you might be getting into the panel, needing to grind and fill. Hopefully not, but that might be the reason you’re having so much trouble.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
The chemistry of the adhesive and the panel may have formed some type of soft polymer. Bonded as @Bell206 mentioned. To get rid of it, you might be getting into the panel, needing to grind and fill. Hopefully not, but that might be the reason you’re having so much trouble.
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Very true with all the solvents that has been tried so far. Hopefully not the case. It sounds like they are FRP panels?
 
@Albany Tom
. …test spot with Bactine, which is the same stuff.
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What is Bactine, please? I remember Bactine as a brand name for a mild disinfectant my Mother used to wipe or spray on my mosquito bites.

-Skip
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
The chemistry of the adhesive and the panel may have formed some type of soft polymer. Bonded as @Bell206 mentioned. To get rid of it, you might be getting into the panel, needing to grind and fill. Hopefully not, but that might be the reason you’re having so much trouble.
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I don't feel like it's gone this far. The stuff comes off....just with a TON of rubbing. Lots of changing to a new spot on the rag, more solvent, rub some more, new rag, more solvent, rub some more, etc... just to get a few square inches done. It just seems to be tenacious. It's not bonded hard like concrete, more like it smears.... and the solvents don't really seem to be breaking the bond or dissolving the stuff much at all. I'm heading back over there later today and plan to try some of these new ideas...... fingers crossed!
 
don't I feel like a dummy.

I went to the storage lot today, to make some progress on a little repair project, but also to trial some of these suggestions

raided my pantry for cooking oils, grabbed bactine from the first aid cabinet, double checked my garage shelf for anything, and grabbed some dollar store lemon pledge...because why not? I also took my wife's little steam generator "bullet" thing ( a handheld steam genny)
Nothing worked any better upon application so I decided to let them all soak in a bit. Then I went back and double checked my collection of hardware store solvents.... and what do you know!

I must have only thought that I'd tried the lacquer thinner. That seems to do the trick!
Great for the bulk of the work I need to do

The only problem now is that I do have a few of these stickers on painted surfaces that I'm not planning to repaint...such as the cab doors which were painted by Ford. I'll use the eraser wheel carefully on those but don't know what to get that residue off with.... lacquer thinner will damage that paint, right?
 
Glad you found something that works! I'm writing down a few of these myself, for future use.

Skip Miller said:
@Albany Tom

What is Bactine, please? I remember Bactine as a brand name for a mild disinfectant my Mother used to wipe or spray on my mosquito bites.

-Skip
Click to expand...

It is! That's it. The active ingredient is benzyl ammonium chloride, which is a powerful detergent. As I understand it, the anti-bacterial properties are more or less because the detergent dissolves the cell walls. It's effective at something like .05 - .1%. It's also the active ingredient in 3M disinfectant cleaner, and I believe was the active ingredient in the old Fantastic spray cleaner. My limited chemical knowledge says that these and other detergents allow non-polar things like oil and grease to become soluble in water, more or less. Healthcare people call the x-ammonium chlorides "quats".
 
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