Checkride coming up soon - slow flight

[denverpilot]

Just read a fascinating posting elsewhere that said a guy had a problem with MCA, so he asked his CFI to have him do an entire cross-country at MCA...

If the stall horn turned off, the ride was a "bust".

It could be done. Talk to your CFI.

Meanwhile, congrats on feeling out the steeper turns in the pattern. Sounds like you're feeling out the envelope of your Piper there a bit, under well-controlled circumstances with your CFI in the other seat.

Make sure you candidly tell your CFI you're feeling uncomfortable about MCA. They've all seen that, and will know how to help you through it, even if it means pairing you up with another CFI for a flight, to see if a different teaching style helps it click.

All CFIs want you to succeed. And all pilots, CFI or not... We promise -- we've all been there!

Some struggle with slow flight, some with stalls, some with landings, some with checklists and staying organized, some with flight planning, some with go/no-go decisions, some with weather... aviation and aviating is a big ball of a whole bunch of complex topics... no one understands them all at first.

I swear to God, about four or five flights before I was going to be sent for my PP-ASEL checkride, I forgot how to land. My instructor said, "It happens. You do a bunch of cross-countries with few landings at either end, and your landings go to crud. Let's go beat on 'em for a couple of flights." We did, the landings came back, and not long after, I was ready to go.

This from a guy who wasted a lot of hours that could have been prep for the checkride and doing X-C's, just running around the pattern prior to that, with a solo endorsement... I was so happy to just chug around in circles for hours, that I had to be prodded to schedule some longer flights to get the X-C requirements done, back then. I was fascinated with landings... fast, slow, flaps, no-flaps, short, soft, whatever... I was out trying to make them great. Then I did some X-C's and they turned to crud. It was funny, looking back on it... not funny to me at the time.

Everyone does things a little differently. And we all keep learning new things years after that Private Pilot checkride you're headed for, someday!

(Oh, and I'm still fascinated with landings.)

 

[whifferdill]

Just read a fascinating posting elsewhere that said a guy had a problem with MCA, so he asked his CFI to have him do an entire cross-country at MCA...

If the stall horn turned off, the ride was a "bust".

It could be done. Talk to your CFI.

In theory...but you'd cook your cylinders pretty quickly doing this for an extended period considering the low speed and high angle of attack which will not get sufficient airflow into the engine compartment for proper cooling.

Get some spin training. Aftwards, you won't bat an eye at slow flight.

 

[Jim Logajan]

In theory...but you'd cook your cylinders pretty quickly doing this for an extended period considering the low speed and high angle of attack which will not get sufficient airflow into the engine compartment for proper cooling.

Get some spin training. Aftwards, you won't bat an eye at slow flight.

(The C-152 I'm training in is placarded "no spins" because of a rudder AD.) According to the AOPA ASF, it appears spin training would provide direct experience that recover in anything less than 1000 ft is exceedingly unlikely, so if anything it should result in a greater fear of spin entry (and therefore stalls) at low speeds in the pattern:

http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/topics/stall_spin.html

 

[jesse]

(The C-152 I'm training in is placarded "no spins" because of a rudder AD.) According to the AOPA ASF, it appears spin training would provide direct experience that recover in anything less than 1000 ft is exceedingly unlikely, so if anything it should result in a greater fear of spin entry (and therefore stalls) at low speeds in the pattern:

http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/topics/stall_spin.html

It's been a few years since I've done it (because of that damn AD) but I'm pretty sure I used to spin a 150 and recover in less than 1000 feet.

 

[Jim Logajan]

It's been a few years since I've done it (because of that damn AD) but I'm pretty sure I used to spin a 150 and recover in less than 1000 feet.

Then you were doing good; according to article I linked to:

"When proper recovery techniques are used, the one-turn spin altitude loss for both the Cessna 150 and 152 is about 1,000 feet, taking between ¼ and ½ turn."

 

[whifferdill]

(The C-152 I'm training in is placarded "no spins" because of a rudder AD.) According to the AOPA ASF, it appears spin training would provide direct experience that recover in anything less than 1000 ft is exceedingly unlikely, so if anything it should result in a greater fear of spin entry (and therefore stalls) at low speeds in the pattern:

http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/topics/stall_spin.html

Spin training will give you greater understanding, knowledge, experience and respect for stalls/spins, but it will NOT result in greater fear. Fear is a result of lack of knowledge and experience...we tend to fear the unknown.

Take some spin training from an experienced instructor in a suitable airplane to the point where you can calmly recover, and I guarantee you that you will not come away from this experience with greater fear. Add in upset and maybe even a little acro training, and your overall confidence and comfort level in an airplane will be noticeably greater.

Then you were doing good; according to article I linked to:

"When proper recovery techniques are used, the one-turn spin altitude loss for both the Cessna 150 and 152 is about 1,000 feet, taking between ¼ and ½ turn."

Another thing you will learn during spin training is that it takes real effort and a bit of time for a spin to develop to the point of actually making one turn. An accidental departure does not mean you must wait for the incipient spin to develop to the point where 1,000' will be required to recover. Spin training will provide you with some "auto response" muscle memory that will allow you to recover very quickly. If you respond immediately and appropriately, you can recover from an incipient spin (departure) in no more than 500'. If someone actually completes a full turn before recognizing the situation and attempting to recover, they are probably confused, panicked, inexperienced with spins, and may not recover regardless of altitude. Regardless of the PTS, there's no reason to have this kind of knowledge and experience gap.

 

[jesse]

Then you were doing good; according to article I linked to:

"When proper recovery techniques are used, the one-turn spin altitude loss for both the Cessna 150 and 152 is about 1,000 feet, taking between ¼ and ½ turn."

I'll have to try it again once the aircraft gets the AD. It's been so long since I've done it. Video I recorded the last time I was doing them...

 

[poadeleted20]

Slow flight was to PTS standards in my opinion ... but still don't like flying at MCA.

Nothing in the book says you have to like it, just that you have to do it. So grit your teeth, do it well, and you'll move on to more fun stuff.

 

[Fearless Tower]

I swear to God, about four or five flights before I was going to be sent for my PP-ASEL checkride, I forgot how to land.

If it makes you feel any better, when I went to do my ASEL addon to my Commercial Mulit Cert, I went up with an instructor in a plain old 172.....did all the single engine maneuvers (lazy 8s, chandelles, 8's on pylons no problem), then we went back to the field to do the landings......I could not land the 172 to save my butt! Pattern work was just fine, but the touchdowns were absolutely horrible. I mean, I'd seen student pilots with 10 hrs TT make better landings than I was doing. And after making beautiful landings in the twin a week before, I suddenly felt like the worst pilot ever. Fortunately, by mid morning of the 2nd day, I was able to get the hang of it. Still, that first day was a bit embarassing.

 

[Jim Logajan]

Take some spin training from an experienced instructor in a suitable airplane to the point where you can calmly recover, and I guarantee you that you will not come away from this experience with greater fear. Add in upset and maybe even a little acro training, and your overall confidence and comfort level in an airplane will be noticeably greater.

I think my wallet has a morbid fear of acro training; before they moved to Florida, Steve Wolf was based out of the same airport I am now training at in Oregon, and I recall checking upset training out as something to look into after getting my certificate and was disappointed to see the cost was ~$300/hr and up:

http://www.wingoveraerobatics.com/training.html

 

[whifferdill]

I think my wallet has a morbid fear of acro training; before they moved to Florida, Steve Wolf was based out of the same airport I am now training at in Oregon, and I recall checking upset training out as something to look into after getting my certificate and was disappointed to see the cost was ~$300/hr and up:

Those "priceless" Mastercard commercials come to mind. Need to get the Kool-Aid into you.

 

[bobmrg]

John,

I didn't get a chance to post earlier, but I also seriously doubt the flat spin story for the Warrior - The previous Cherokees with the "Hershey Bar" wing (instead of the newer tapered wing) *were* certified for intentional spins. I don't think there was that much of a difference between the two - I think Piper just wanted to save money on certification by not going through the additional required tests for intentional spin certification, since I think by then the spin requirement had been removed from the PP PTS.

There was no spin requirement when I took my private ride in 1962 (no PTS, either...just a pocket-sized Advisory Circular that laid out the parameters for the checkride).

Bob Gardner

 

[flyingcheesehead]

There was no spin requirement when I took my private ride in 1962 (no PTS, either...just a pocket-sized Advisory Circular that laid out the parameters for the checkride).

Bob Gardner

Ahh, the good ol' days... Thanks Bob.