Checklist Ideas?

[midlifeflyer]

But, my goal is to place a list in my student's hands, not please a bunch of folks I'm not teaching and responsible for. Sorry, but that's how it is.

One would think that the goal would be to put a good, usable list in your student's hands.

You really do need to get a thicker skin about this stuff. I really didn't see any of the criticism in this thread as personal, which seems to be the way you are taking it.

 

[jmaynard]

One would think that the goal would be to put a good, usable list in your student's hands.

It is, as far as I can tell. OTOH, most of the suggestions here did not fit the constraints his employer placed on him, and which he stated right up front.

 

[RotorAndWing]

Some flight school owners love long expanded drawn out "checklist". Why? Well, it creates a situation that has the student use up more hobbs time.

Back when I had my school I had a student come over from another, larger well known helicopter training facility. He brought all of his training material, including the school "checklist" which was 24 pages long. The checklist we used for our helicopter was one page front and back.

I noticed on the other school's checklist they greatly expanded the start and runup and predeparture procedures. This would take considerably more time to accomplish, all with the engine running. Also I noticed they expanded the after landing and cool down.

After talking with an Instructor I knew from the other facility she told me that the owner figured he was making more revenue by making instructors and students adhere to his checklist.

 

[SkyHog]

My custom checklist for the old Cherokee was awesome:

Engine Start:
Preflight
Left mag
Press Starter
Both Mag

Runup:
1800 RPM -
Check everything

Takeoff:
Landing light on
Transponder altitude
Go

Landing:
Landing light on
Mixture
Land

The simpler you can make it the easier it is to follow.

 

[SkyHog]

Oh and Kenny, while I understand your hands are tied, I hope you are at least telling the students something like "After you get your certificate, you'll probably create your own checklist that doesn't have all this crap in it. Due to liability, I have to teach you off this insane checklist that no one is going to use, ever, but once the liability is in your court, draw up a checklist that spans about a half page and USE IT. You're better off USING A CHECKLIST than having a book with a bunch of check items that sits in your lap while you perform the rote memory items and proceed."

 

[Ted]

Yeah, the checklists for trainers really should be pretty quick. A run-up shouldn't take long at all, and you should get in the air pretty fast. Even on the Aztec, it's pretty quick, especially once you know the plane. My run-up checklist in the Aztec looks relatively long, but it also goes through pretty fast. I also have 25 hours in the plane, which helps me in terms of knowing it, knowing what to expect, etc.

The only plane I've been in that really seemed to have an extensive checklist was the Cheyenne. That thing went on forever. Then again, the pilot also was pretty new to the plane, so things were taking longer than they needed to. What was really cool there, though, was that the plane actually talked to you and read off the items.

 

[dmccormack]

This discussion has me thiking that sometimes an overly complex checklist may actually cause the pilot to ignore the checklist.

One older A/C I fly has placards all over, including "Takeoff Checklist" and "Pre-Landing Checklist."

The problem is some of these super-terse "checklists" may ignore certain key steps that have not yet become "automatic" in the new or stale pilot.

So how about this -- a self-assessment to determine what type checklist you need in flight:

If you say the following phrase at anytime during preflight through takeoff, use the recommended checklist:

• "Holy Cow what is this....?" Dummy
• "Wait, was I supposed to....?" Dummy
• "Move. I got it. " Crusty
• "So what? It's flying fine" Crusty
• "I never heard/saw/smelled that before..." Proficient
• "What does that thingee do?" Dummy
• "You don't mind low level flight, right...?" Crusty
• "Wake me when that beeps..." Crusty
• "Hmmm....." Dummy

Feel free to add to the list...

 

[KennyFlys]

Oh and Kenny, while I understand your hands are tied, I hope you are at least telling the students something like "After you get your certificate, you'll probably create your own checklist that doesn't have all this crap in it. Due to liability, I have to teach you off this insane checklist that no one is going to use, ever, but once the liability is in your court, draw up a checklist that spans about a half page and USE IT. You're better off USING A CHECKLIST than having a book with a bunch of check items that sits in your lap while you perform the rote memory items and proceed."

I push use so they learn what needs to be done and procedures are followed. I want them to develop a logical order so nothing is missed and that is usually covered by flows. I push memory and flow patterns that are uniform. Where reasonable, mnemonics are used such as "SLIM" when shutting down. I do push the list when securing so nothing is left before walking away. But, more than anything they'll use flows on just about any procedure but start-up and pre-taxi.

I don't know about schools pushing lists just to keep the Hobbs turning longer. That's pretty despicable if they are but it's certainly not the case here. There's more than enough Hobbs time just getting off the ground or back down in a busy Class C airport.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Where reasonable, mnemonics are used such as "SLIM" when shutting down.

I HATE those. There are so damned many of them that in my opinion they are a waste of memory power and time. I can't remember them and if I do, I can't remember what they mean. Instead, a clear, CONCISE checklist makes the use of MOST of them irrelevant.

Case in point. SLIM? Never heard of it.

 

[SkyHog]

I HATE those. There are so damned many of them that in my opinion they are a waste of memory power and time. I can't remember them and if I do, I can't remember what they mean. Instead, a clear, CONCISE checklist makes the use of MOST of them irrelevant.

Case in point. SLIM? Never heard of it.

Never heard SLIM either....I use the triple M for shutdown:

Mixture, Master, Mags.

 

[Everskyward]

I HATE those.

I do too.

There are so damned many of them that in my opinion they are a waste of memory power and time. I can't remember them and if I do, I can't remember what they mean.

No kidding. The problem is compounded when you go to a different instructor and he or she has another pet mnemonic they want you to use.

Case in point. SLIM? Never heard of it.

Neither have I.

 

[wabower]

I use the gang-bar.

Never heard SLIM either....I use the triple M for shutdown:

Mixture, Master, Mags.

 

[tonycondon]

i always liked border pilot's checklist:

http://borderpilot.com/10 CHECK LIST.htm

 

[KennyFlys]

I HATE those. There are so damned many of them that in my opinion they are a waste of memory power and time. I can't remember them and if I do, I can't remember what they mean. Instead, a clear, CONCISE checklist makes the use of MOST of them irrelevant.

Case in point. SLIM? Never heard of it.

That's the only one I use besides GUMPS.

Switches
Lean
Ignition
Master

 

[tonycondon]

FWIW, and probably my only real input to this thread. the more i fly the more i use flows and verbal callouts. i find a written checklist often distracting. I think Barry Schiff talked about "killer items" that he always checked in the 747 before taking off. I believe they were basically fuel selectors, spoilers, and flaps. Before each takeoff he said he would glance at the FE's panel and make sure fuel was coming from the proper tank, then as he moved his hand to the throttles would verify flaps up and spoilers retracted, then advance the throttles. I did a very similar motion when i flew the 421. starting on the floor fuel on the main tanks, then flaps up, mixtures and props full forward and then throttles up. anyway, thats all i have to say about that.

 

[RotorAndWing]

Before each takeoff he said he would glance at the FE's panel and make sure fuel was coming from the proper tank, then as he moved his hand to the throttles would verify flaps up and spoilers retracted, then advance the throttles.

He'd be in for a very rude awakening if he tried to take off with the flaps up in a 747. Besides, the TO warning horn would get his attention.

 

[tonycondon]

He'd be in for a very rude awakening if he tried to take off with the flaps up in a 747. Besides, the TO warning horn would get his attention.

oh yea...duh i knew that. i should've said flaps *set*. making sure they weren't up was the point of checking.

 

[dmccormack]

Never heard SLIM either....I use the triple M for shutdown:

Mixture, Master, Mags.

I start on the right, and move left.

 

[KennyFlys]

I start on the right, and move left.

That's how most flows work in the Cessna singles.... bottom to top, right to left.

 

[dmccormack]

That's how most flows work in the Cessna singles.... bottom to top, right to left.

Yep...

Bonanzas, too (though the piano key 35 is a bit more challenging)

 

[gprellwitz]

Never heard SLIM either....I use the triple M for shutdown:

Mixture, Master, Mags.

But that could leave your avionics Switches on as you shut down, which I understood could be damaging due to electrical spikes during shutdown. Hence SLIM which is, as was previously pointed out:
Switches
Lean (your Mixture)
Ignition (your Mags)
Master (your Master)

I was also told that there is a reason for doing Ignition/Mags before Master, but I'm not certain what it is. The flow in my cockpit would actually make it easier to do in the order you presented.

 

[gismo]

Never heard SLIM either....I use the triple M for shutdown:

Mixture, Master, Mags.

Mee too but I always try to make it Mix, MAGS, master since the consequences of leaving the mags hot are more severe and that's less likely to be noticed.

 

[gismo]

But that could leave your avionics Switches on as you shut down, which I understood could be damaging due to electrical spikes during shutdown. Hence SLIM which is, as was previously pointed out:
Switches
Lean (your Mixture)
Ignition (your Mags)
Master (your Master)

I was also told that there is a reason for doing Ignition/Mags before Master, but I'm not certain what it is. The flow in my cockpit would actually make it easier to do in the order you presented.

FWIW, there's no reason to expect "electrical spikes" on shutdown, there's hardly any issue with that on startup but none at shutdown. The main reason for turning stuff off before stopping the engine is to avoid draining energy from the battery (and even that isn't really much of an issue).

 

[midlifeflyer]

This discussion has me thiking that sometimes an overly complex checklist may actually cause the pilot to ignore the checklist.

Exactly.

 

[steingar]

Something I will do one of these days (when my checklist wears out) will be to write a one page checklist and make a pad out of it (very inexpensive at any establishment that makes copies). I will then require myself to check each item physically on completion. if I fly with anyone I'll hand it to them to ascertain that I have completed all the items on it.

 

[dmccormack]

Something I will do one of these days (when my checklist wears out) will be to write a one page checklist and make a pad out of it (very inexpensive at any establishment that makes copies). I will then require myself to check each item physically on completion. if I fly with anyone I'll hand it to them to ascertain that I have completed all the items on it.

I tried that once with Grease Pencil on Laminated sheets (a holdover from my USAF Nuke Puke days)

PITA

 

[steingar]

I tried that once with Grease Pencil on Laminated sheets (a holdover from my USAF Nuke Puke days)

PITA

Though about doing that, but really, copies are cheap. Make a pad, fill it out and throw it away. You can still pass over a checklist item, but it isn't as easily done. Javing someone look it over gives you a small measure of redundancy.

 

[dmccormack]

Though about doing that, but really, copies are cheap. Make a pad, fill it out and throw it away. You can still pass over a checklist item, but it isn't as easily done. Javing someone look it over gives you a small measure of redundancy.

It's not the grease pen vs. paper, it's the checking off that's a PITA, and -- to me -- burdensome.

One item I read every time (not really checking off steps, but rather a forced mental rehearsal) is the pre-takeoff brief.

I don't read it out loud, and I don't make a show about it -- too easy to upset passengers.

"Loss of power less than 1000' AGL...."

 

[TMetzinger]

It's not the grease pen vs. paper, it's the checking off that's a PITA, and -- to me -- burdensome.

One item I read every time (not really checking off steps, but rather a forced mental rehearsal) is the pre-takeoff brief.

I don't read it out loud, and I don't make a show about it -- too easy to upset passengers.

"Loss of power less than 1000' AGL...."

Yep - I always do that mentally, or if there's another pilot up front, I brief it out loud, making it clear what (if anything) I want him to do.

Usually it will go something like:

• This will be a normal takeoff on Runway 35. Expected roll is around XXXX feet, abort point is as we pass the FBO.
• I'll call airspeed alive, and rotate.
• Climb will be at YY knots
• Before rotation, if we have a failure, or ANYTHING seems amiss, either of us may call "Abort, abort, abort" and I'll pull the throttle to idle and we'll stop on the runway.
• Below 500 feet, we land ahead, there is clear space. Above 500 feet to pattern altitude, we can make the field to the west. At or above pattern altitude we've got more options including a return to the runway.
• I'll fly the airplane, you watch for traffic or fire, please.
• Evacuation call will be "Evac, Evac, Evac" and the exit is to the REAR of the wing. Head straight away from the airplane as fast as you can run.
• Any questions?

This script takes maybe 30 seconds before taking the runway.
For the fields I use regularly I have the emergency fields prelocated. New fields I take a look when I'm arriving, or ask the locals.

A side note - I practiced evacuating the Diamond with my wife and kid in the back. I'm glad I did as they were horribly slow at first, but got much better with a couple reps. We figured out the best sequence of events (Mom gets the door open FIRST, THEN unbuckles the child, then climbs out and grabs the child and runs like hell). We got to where I could yell "go" and they'd be out by the time I did my last minute shutdown stuff (fuel and electrics off, assuming we were landing with power) and had my door open. I HIGHLY recommend you practice this with your family, particularly in airplanes where rear-seaters don't have their own exit. They need to be able to get out if you're incapacitated.

 

[gprellwitz]

Tim, that's some really useful advice. Thanks! OTOH, I don't think I'd want to be practicing emergency evacs with other than other pilots or regular passengers!

 

[TMetzinger]

Tim, that's some really useful advice. Thanks! OTOH, I don't think I'd want to be practicing emergency evacs with other than other pilots or regular passengers!

I agree. I practice with my family because... well... they're MY FAMILY, and they deserve the extra effort.

 

[tdager]

Agreed.

As Tim said earlier -- it's a semantics debate.

A "check list" is a way to verify what's been done (once you can do what's the be done from memory)

The longer self-made booklets we're describing aren't merely checklists -- they are bound summaries of SOPs, extracts from the POH, Performance Charts, and Helpful aids.

It's a Very Good Thing to go through the exercise of gathering and typing up all this data.

And that is exactly what I did. I have a 20+ page "Personal Ops Manual" with pre-calculated take-off W&B's, extrapolated take-off landing data, etc. that I can reference when needed.

I ALSO use a 10+ page "checklist" during the various stages of aircraft ops. Sorry if that rubs some the wrong way, but I do operate as "professional" as possible, just like the airliners. It works for me, makes me comfortable and safe, so why the gripes? BTW, one item not mentioned is that a small, flip-book style allows one to have the emergency out procedures RIGHT there, that one can review prior to takeoff, or during cruise, it keeps the info fresh.

 

[RotorAndWing]

Yep - I always do that mentally, or if there's another pilot up front, I brief it out loud, making it clear what (if anything) I want him to do.

Usually it will go something like:

• This will be a normal takeoff on Runway 35. Expected roll is around XXXX feet, abort point is as we pass the FBO.
• I'll call airspeed alive, and rotate.
• Climb will be at YY knots
• Before rotation, if we have a failure, or ANYTHING seems amiss, either of us may call "Abort, abort, abort" and I'll pull the throttle to idle and we'll stop on the runway.
• Below 500 feet, we land ahead, there is clear space. Above 500 feet to pattern altitude, we can make the field to the west. At or above pattern altitude we've got more options including a return to the runway.
• I'll fly the airplane, you watch for traffic or fire, please.
• Evacuation call will be "Evac, Evac, Evac" and the exit is to the REAR of the wing. Head straight away from the airplane as fast as you can run.
• Any questions?

Yes, I have a question. In bullet point two " I'll call airspeed alive, and rotate." Why?

Are you concerned the pilot flying will not recognize the airspeed needle moving? Are you concerned you will not see the airspeed needle moving? If you are out flying VFR would you actually abort a takeoff for a failed airspeed indicator on a small piston airplane?

On the "rotate" call, once again, why? Are you concerned the pilot flying will fail to rotate the plane unless reminded, as well as if you were flying?

I know this seems kinda harsh, but why are people trying to make this much more difficult than it should be? Trying to impose procedures intended for complex transport aircraft into small general aviation aircraft is just plain silly. It would be me trying to run my 45 foot boat like an aircraft carrier.

On another post someone beams with pride they have a 20+ page checklist for their airplane so they can "be just like the airlines". On the plane I fly professionally (B727) our normal checklist that covers Before Start, Before Taxi,Taxi, Before Takeoff, After Take Off, Approach, Before Landing, After Landing and Parking checklist is on one page front and back. The Abnormal/Emergency checklist is 6 pages front and back. Now, the AOM (Aircraft Operating Manual) has an expanded checklist that goes into greater detail of each of the above and is there for reference.

Also in the airline world we use Phase One Items on emergency checklist. These are memory items that are accomplished without pulling the checklist out. On an earlier post I pointed out on Tim's 172 checklist he had a "Go Around" checklist as well as a Engine Failure During Takeoff and Engine Failure after Takeoff checklist. What these should be are Phase One Items that are committed to memory and should be noted as such. If a student pilot cannot remember these phase one items then he shouldn't be allowed to solo the aircraft.

 

[dmccormack]

And that is exactly what I did. I have a 20+ page "Personal Ops Manual" with pre-calculated take-off W&B's, extrapolated take-off landing data, etc. that I can reference when needed.

I ALSO use a 10+ page "checklist" during the various stages of aircraft ops. Sorry if that rubs some the wrong way, but I do operate as "professional" as possible, just like the airliners. It works for me, makes me comfortable and safe, so why the gripes? BTW, one item not mentioned is that a small, flip-book style allows one to have the emergency out procedures RIGHT there, that one can review prior to takeoff, or during cruise, it keeps the info fresh.

Yep -- that works.

Some are hung up on the meaning of "checklist."

I was a Nuclear Weapons Maintenance Crew Chief (E-5) in the USAF from 1980-1984. We used checklists for everything.

Each checklist was hundreds of pages long, and included warnings, notes, cautions -- the works.

(And, if you did a step out of order during an inspection -- and there were many -- you failed the operation).

My definition of "checklist" is a handy-sized collection of reminders, relevant data, and emergency procedures. The checklists contains sections for each phase of flight, with key items listed (GUMPSS).

I rarely read line by line -- usually I do, then review. Once in a while the review catches something I missed. That's why I use a check list.

With a brand-new student pilot, they read, I do, they watch. The next time, I read, they do. After a few flights they do and review (out loud).

I don't insist students use the same comprehensive checklist I do, but I offer it as an option (I've made some checklists for owners after they've seen mine).

 

[TMetzinger]

Yes, I have a question. In bullet point two " I'll call airspeed alive, and rotate." Why?
Because I do this whether there's someone else in the plane or not, and I want them to understand I'll be talking.

Are you concerned the pilot flying will not recognize the airspeed needle moving? Are you concerned you will not see the airspeed needle moving? If you are out flying VFR would you actually abort a takeoff for a failed airspeed indicator on a small piston airplane?
Yes. What if it's not a failed airspeed indicator? What if I forgot the Pitot tube cover? What else did I forget?

On the "rotate" call, once again, why? Are you concerned the pilot flying will fail to rotate the plane unless reminded, as well as if you were flying?
I make this call regardless of if there's someone else in the plane, and it let's anyone else in the airplane know that they should expect the rotation.

I know this seems kinda harsh, but why are people trying to make this much more difficult than it should be? Trying to impose procedures intended for complex transport aircraft into small general aviation aircraft is just plain silly. It would be me trying to run my 45 foot boat like an aircraft carrier.
That's your opinion. On the other hand, flying consistently is shown to enhance safety. These processes are ways of insuring the airplane is flown consistently. I don't find they make the flying "harder" or less enjoyable.

On another post someone beams with pride they have a 20+ page checklist for their airplane so they can "be just like the airlines". On the plane I fly professionally (B727) our normal checklist that covers Before Start, Before Taxi,Taxi, Before Takeoff, After Take Off, Approach, Before Landing, After Landing and Parking checklist is on one page front and back. The Abnormal/Emergency checklist is 6 pages front and back. Now, the AOM (Aircraft Operating Manual) has an expanded checklist that goes into greater detail of each of the above and is there for reference.
My entire booklet for an airplane also fits on one page front and back, including the performance, maint data, and emergency checklists. And just like yours, they're CHECKlists, not DOlists.

Also in the airline world we use Phase One Items on emergency checklist. These are memory items that are accomplished without pulling the checklist out. On an earlier post I pointed out on Tim's 172 checklist he had a "Go Around" checklist as well as a Engine Failure During Takeoff and Engine Failure after Takeoff checklist. What these should be are Phase One Items that are committed to memory and should be noted as such. If a student pilot cannot remember these phase one items then he shouldn't be allowed to solo the aircraft.
No argument - and in my 172 checklist those emergency procedures SHOULD be memorized. But isn't it nice to have a way to quickly make sure your memory worked?

Answers in bold

 

[RotorAndWing]

[FONT=&quot]Yes, I have a question. In bullet point two " I'll call airspeed alive, and rotate." Why?
Because I do this whether there's someone else in the plane or not, and I want them to understand I'll be talking.

[/FONT]

You didn't answer the question. Why the "Airspeed alive" and "rotate" call?

[FONT=&quot]Are you concerned the pilot flying will not recognize the airspeed needle moving? Are you concerned you will not see the airspeed needle moving? If you are out flying VFR would you actually abort a takeoff for a failed airspeed indicator on a small piston airplane?
Yes. What if it's not a failed airspeed indicator? What if I forgot the Pitot tube cover? What else did I forget?

[/FONT]

So, you are saying you cannot fly a small single engine plane without an operating airspeed indicator? So what if the pitot tube cover is on, just fly back around, land and remove it.

[FONT=&quot]On the "rotate" call, once again, why? Are you concerned the pilot flying will fail to rotate the plane unless reminded, as well as if you were flying?
I make this call regardless of if there's someone else in the plane, and it let's anyone else in the airplane know that they should expect the rotation.

[/FONT]

Again, why? Why should they "expect" rotation? Is the pitch angle so extreme? If they realize you are going flying, then of course rotation should be expected. What you are confusing here once again is transport aircraft operation procedures.

[FONT=&quot]I know this seems kinda harsh, but why are people trying to make this much more difficult than it should be? Trying to impose procedures intended for complex transport aircraft into small general aviation aircraft is just plain silly. It would be me trying to run my 45 foot boat like an aircraft carrier.
That's your opinion. On the other hand, flying consistently is shown to enhance safety. These processes are ways of insuring the airplane is flown consistently. I don't find they make the flying "harder" or less enjoyable.

[/FONT]

But you are confusing your elongated procedures with "flying consistently". In aviation you have "technique" and "procedure". In professional aviation we fly "procedure" in order to establish a standard.



Then you have those who think their "technique" should become "procedure" which begins clouding up the process and breaks down standards. Stop trying to reinvent the wheel.

[FONT=&quot]On another post someone beams with pride they have a 20+ page checklist for their airplane so they can "be just like the airlines". On the plane I fly professionally (B727) our normal checklist that covers Before Start, Before Taxi,Taxi, Before Takeoff, After Take Off, Approach, Before Landing, After Landing and Parking checklist is on one page front and back. The Abnormal/Emergency checklist is 6 pages front and back. Now, the AOM (Aircraft Operating Manual) has an expanded checklist that goes into greater detail of each of the above and is there for reference.
My entire booklet for an airplane also fits on one page front and back, including the performance, maint data, and emergency checklists. And just like yours, they're CHECKlists, not DOlists.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]No argument - and in my 172 checklist those emergency procedures SHOULD be memorized. But isn't it nice to have a way to quickly make sure your memory worked?[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

Your "checklist" aren't usable in their format. Once again, let me see you accomplish 3 of them while the event is happening. You can't, that's why they should be noted as Phase One Memory Items. What you call "checklist" is really the Reader's Digest version of the AFM.

 

[Everskyward]

But isn't it nice to have a way to quickly make sure your memory worked?

I guess if you are still on the pavement you accomplished the "Engine Failure During Takeoff" checklist successfully. :smile:

I can see that there is a philosophical difference between the minimalists and the mega-detailers. Personally I am more or less a minimalist, but whatever floats your boat...

The same goes for making callouts and whatnot when you are single-pilot in a small airplane just like you would in a crew situation. Some people enjoy that stuff, but I would feel strange doing it in a small airplane even though I do those things in the work airplane. Other people say that is needs to be ingrained early but I don't think that's true. I was over 40 years old and had flown for 20 years before I ever flew in a crew, in a plane where you make callouts. It took a litte while to remember what I was supposed to say and do but it wasn't that difficult to learn.

 

[RotorAndWing]

I guess if you are still on the pavement you accomplished the "Engine Failure During Takeoff" checklist successfully. :smile:

I can see that there is a philosophical difference between the minimalists and the mega-detailers. Personally I am more or less a minimalist, but whatever floats your boat...

The same goes for making callouts and whatnot when you are single-pilot in a small airplane just like you would in a crew situation. Some people enjoy that stuff, but I would feel strange doing it in a small airplane even though I do those things in the work airplane. Other people say that is needs to be ingrained early but I don't think that's true. I was over 40 years old and had flown for 20 years before I ever flew in a crew, in a plane where you make callouts. It took a litte while to remember what I was supposed to say and do but it wasn't that difficult to learn.

I agree with you, what consenting adults do in their own airplane is their business, knock yourself out.

But where I strongly disagree is when Flight Instructors start shoving this nonsense down on their students and try to force upon them their "technique" as "procedure".

 

[dmccormack]

But where I strongly disagree is when Flight Instructors start shoving this nonsense down on their students and try to force upon them their "technique" as "procedure".

Right, which is why I wrote: "With a brand-new student pilot, they read, I do, they watch. The next time, I read, they do. After a few flights they do and review (out loud).

I don't insist students use the same comprehensive checklist I do, but I offer it as an option (I've made some checklists for owners after they've seen mine)."

 

[Ted]

I agree with you, what consenting adults do in their own airplane is their business, knock yourself out.

Hmm...

THE PRIVATE PILOT AND A PILOT RATED PASSENGER WERE GOING TO PRACTICE SIMULATED INSTRUMENT FLIGHT. WITNESSES OBSERVED THE AIRPLANE'S RIGHT WING FAIL IN A DIVE AND CRASH. EXAMINATION OF THE WRECKAGE AND BODIES REVEALED THAT BOTH OCCUPANTS WERE PARTIALLY CLOTHED AND THE FRONT RIGHT SEAT WAS IN THE FULL AFT RECLINING POSITION. NEITHER BODY SHOWED EVIDENCE OF SEATBELTS OR SHOULDER HARNESSES BEING WORN. EXAMINATION OF THE INDIVIDUALS' CLOTHING REVEALED NO EVIDENCE OF RIPPING OR DISTRESS TO THE ZIPPERS AND BELTS.

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:

THE PILOT IN COMMAND'S IMPROPER INFLIGHT DECISION TO DIVERT HER ATTENTION TO OTHER ACTIVITIES NOT RELATED TO THE CONDUCT OF THE FLIGHT. CONTRIBUTING TO THE ACCIDENT WAS THE EXCEEDING OF THE DESIGN LIMITS OF THE AIRPLANE LEADING TO A WING FAILURE.

http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X18632&key=1

One may want to consider what activities are intelligent for consenting adults to perform whilst alone in an airplane...