Cheapest way to fly a "plane."

LoLPilot

LoLPilot

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LoLPilot
There have been a couple aircraft purchase questions on here recently and it got me thinking - what's the cheapest plane to own? Let's set some rules.

*You must own the plane. We are not talking club

*It must be a "real" airplane. So we are excluding ultralights, trikes, and anything that involves essentially a seat with an engine mounted on the back.

*It can be certificated or experimental/homebuilt.

*The mission is simply to fly for fun, occasionally with one passenger. VFR only is ok.
 
That’s easy - Cessna 150. That’s why flight schools with skinny CFIs use them.




But who otherwise would want to?
 
Fly Baby. You can work on it if you need to.

There are other EX-AB single seaters that would also fill the bill.

Oops - can't take a passenger. Maybe a Kitfox or equivalent, bought used.
 
There's a lot of very inexpensive ways to fly experimental. Do you want to?

I'll throw out one of the Airdrome Aeroplanes. You can get a kit for a low as 5.5k and it runs on a Great Plains VW, so another 7k for the engine that you build yourself. Maybe 2.5k for minimal TOMATO FLAMES equipment? That puts you in the air for around 14k running at about 4 gph.
 
Experimental. Sonex, Onex, RV-whatever, Tango. All operate pretty inexpensively. Some of the RV's and the Tango, among others, turn out some impressive speeds with an IO-360 engine.
 
LoLPilot said:
There have been a couple aircraft purchase questions on here recently and it got me thinking - what's the cheapest plane to own? Let's set some rules.

*You must own the plane. We are not talking club

*It must be a "real" airplane. So we are excluding ultralights, trikes, and anything that involves essentially a seat with an engine mounted on the back.

*It can be certificated or experimental/homebuilt.

*The mission is simply to fly for fun, occasionally with one passenger. VFR only is ok.
Click to expand...

if u could just define 'fun' that might help, because for some, fast is fun, others, slow and low is fun, and others, upside down is fun. or, that could all be fun for the same person. but u get my drift, define your fun.
 
I just meant this for generic brainstorming. Planes I've identified are the 150, 120, Champ, 7ECA Citabria, and Celebrity biplanes. As for fun, let's say going out and flying. Fast, slow, etc. Being able to say "hey wanna roll it?" And not having that be a stupid suggestion would be fun. I'd say for myself I'd prefer to stick to an aircraft engine like a Lycoming or Continental and not a repurposed VW engine.

But yeah I didn't mean this for anything specific. I just thought it'd be fun. On bike forums sometimes people will say "what's the cheapest way to sling two wheels around and have a ball," and stuff like the Ninja 250 always comes up, but you occasionally get oddballs like old Honda 500's that are cool to think about for cheap thrills.
 
LoLPilot said:
I just meant this for generic brainstorming. Planes I've identified are the 150, 120, Champ, 7ECA Citabria, and Celebrity biplanes. As for fun, let's say going out and flying. Fast, slow, etc. Being able to say "hey wanna roll it?" And not having that be a stupid suggestion would be fun. I'd say for myself I'd prefer to stick to an aircraft engine like a Lycoming or Continental and not a repurposed VW engine.

But yeah I didn't mean this for anything specific. I just thought it'd be fun. On bike forums sometimes people will say "what's the cheapest way to sling two wheels around and have a ball," and stuff like the Ninja 250 always comes up, but you occasionally get oddballs like old Honda 500's that are cool to think about for cheap thrills.
Click to expand...

There's a nice looking Spezio Tuholer on Barnstormers right now:
watermark.jpg


Only asking $10,000. Someone should go get it.
 
Champ, Cub, Vagabond, Colt, 150, 120, 140, Ercoupe

This is what I have been looking at in my quest to buy. Probably about as cheap as you can do it. This does not include financing. It also assumes no engine reserve add another 1-2K if you want that.

Figure for 100 hours :
Hanger - 1800 (around here)
Fuel - 2000 (Autogas 100LL mix)
Oil Changes - 200
Annual - 1000 (should be less owner assisted but assume some MX)
Insurance - 1200

So $6200 or $62/hour

Remember the first hour is really expensive it gets cheaper every hour after that.

If you cut back to 50 hours you fly half the hours but still at almost 2/3rds of the cost.

You could forego insurance and park it outside but would you really want to do that?
 
Not my goals but an Ercoupe might fit the bill...
 
I love my Ercoupe... Fun, 100mph cruise, windows open flying or closed if it gets cold. Not expensive, insurance isn't bad I pay $622 a year.

Now I was looking at experimental when I first started looking, insurance alone was why I went certified, several of the experimental I looked at for full coverage with low pilot time I was quoted around $4000 a year.... OUCH.
 
My Cessna 140 has filled that bill quite nicely for about nine years. As cheap or maybe cheaper to fly than a 150, but with the fun, challenge and prestige of tailwheel flying. She’s been a hoot. My last few owner assisted annuals have cost about $400, full insurance for about $600 and 5.6 gallons per hour.
 
I typically average about $35/hr for about 75 hours a year in my glider.

If closer to a club with cheaper tows would be even less expensive.
Did an expensive annual this year, most years I only spend about $50 on the condition inspection for my experimental Glider.
I can store it in the trailer at my house, so no hanger or storage fees.

upload_2018-8-13_14-36-53.png
 
My Experimental 601XL-B Zodiac SLSA does it for me with 115 knots cruise speed on 5 1/2 gph, and I can do my own maintenance and annual condition inspections to keep costs down. It's a factory built SLSA that I recertificated as experimental operating light sport.
 
Our operating cost for the RV-12 -- including engine reserve but excluding hangar (165/mo) and insurance (1292/yr) but inclusing fuel, oil, expendables and a reserve for condition inspection expenses -- is right around $30 per hour. That's burning alcohol-free unleaded premium mogas. Decent examples can now be had around the $60K range. More if you want pretty or fancy paint; less if you're willing to finish the last couple week's worth of work and fly off the 5 hour test phase. Not too shabby for a 120 knot two seater with autopilot and typically less than 3-400 hours on the meter. There are cheaper, I'm sure, but it's hard to beat the overall value.
 
See Colts come up too! I don't think they're ugly. They're odd looking but kind of cute in a way. I worry about short wing Pipers because I've heard they glide like bricks. Apparently there are also a bunch of AD's on Colts and TriPacers regarding spontaneous combustion.
 
LoLPilot said:
There have been a couple aircraft purchase questions on here recently and it got me thinking - what's the cheapest plane to own? Let's set some rules.

*You must own the plane. We are not talking club

*It must be a "real" airplane. So we are excluding ultralights, trikes, and anything that involves essentially a seat with an engine mounted on the back.

*It can be certificated or experimental/homebuilt.

*The mission is simply to fly for fun, occasionally with one passenger. VFR only is ok.
Click to expand...
breezy hangar.png
 
Well in general the absolute cheapest way to fly is to find a good not for profit flying club. Basically a very large partnership and IME about half the members fly almost never thus they help pay for the upkeep but contribute to almost none of the wear and tear. But you've taken flying clubs off the table so that's out.

Then again you have opened it up to both certified and experimental. Again speaking only in general terms, an experimental will almost always be cheaper to own and fly than a certified of similar construction and performance.

To dial it in a bit further, personally I've always been wary of anything fabric covered that's on the cheaper end of the spectrum. Your Colts your Chiefs etc. They can be cheap to buy and cheap to fly. But if you're not looking to keep it as your forever airplane and you own it long enough to need fabric, you can easily end up with a plane that will cost more to get airworthy again than it will ever be worth to sell.
 
Aparrantly the cheapest way is to simply steal one from the ramp.
 
So this begs the question... is there an advantage to certified?

Someone on this board mentioned that certified often carried cheaper insurance. I could believe that. I'd also assume that you, the pilot, benefit from the AD's that apply to certified designs.

As I've said this is more an academic exercise to go on the opposite end of the spectrum from the suggestions of big Cherokee types and 182's. For myself it will likely be quite some time before I can own any aircraft, if we are giving a proper safety margin for unexpected repairs and the like. And if you plopped down 100 grand and told me take this to go buy an airplane I'd probably buy a Citabria. I personally like the aura and romance that I associate with conventional gear planes and I think tandem seating is cool for Walter Mitty "WWI Flying Ace" feelings. Plus all of my flying would be solo, personally. I put the stipulation of the passenger in here to allow for baggage room and to make the thread more applicable to other people! But I'm of the opinion that if GA is to thrive again, its practitioners have a duty to remove the stigma that it is only a rich person's game. Few of the people at my school / FBO are wealthy. There are a number of 10 year old Toyotas out there whose owners own airplanes at that field, ranging from a TriPacer to a Pitts to a Mooney to a home built. So I thought, let's say we had $40,000. Let's go flying, and in a "real" airplane - maybe open cockpit but otherwise fully enclosed.
 
LoLPilot said:
So this begs the question... is there an advantage to certified?

Someone on this board mentioned that certified often carried cheaper insurance. I could believe that. I'd also assume that you, the pilot, benefit from the AD's that apply to certified designs.

As I've said this is more an academic exercise to go on the opposite end of the spectrum from the suggestions of big Cherokee types and 182's. For myself it will likely be quite some time before I can own any aircraft, if we are giving a proper safety margin for unexpected repairs and the like. And if you plopped down 100 grand and told me take this to go buy an airplane I'd probably buy a Citabria. I personally like the aura and romance that I associate with conventional gear planes and I think tandem seating is cool for Walter Mitty "WWI Flying Ace" feelings. Plus all of my flying would be solo, personally. I put the stipulation of the passenger in here to allow for baggage room and to make the thread more applicable to other people! But I'm of the opinion that if GA is to thrive again, its practitioners have a duty to remove the stigma that it is only a rich person's game. Few of the people at my school / FBO are wealthy. There are a number of 10 year old Toyotas out there whose owners own airplanes at that field, ranging from a TriPacer to a Pitts to a Mooney to a home built. So I thought, let's say we had $40,000. Let's go flying, and in a "real" airplane - maybe open cockpit but otherwise fully enclosed.
Click to expand...

In response to the above, a way to keep your costs down is whatever make and model you choose, get the right example. Get a plane that is solid with no corrosion or other structural problems, good reasonable time engine and a good maintenance history. If you has had no major issues over almost ten years of ownership. If I had bought a ragged airplane with a poor maintenance history I might have experienced something serious that would have turned it into a money pit. Choose carefully and have the right person do a thorough prebuy inspection.
 
LoLPilot said:
There have been a couple aircraft purchase questions on here recently and it got me thinking - what's the cheapest plane to own? Let's set some rules.

*You must own the plane. We are not talking club

*It must be a "real" airplane. So we are excluding ultralights, trikes, and anything that involves essentially a seat with an engine mounted on the back.

*It can be certificated or experimental/homebuilt.

*The mission is simply to fly for fun, occasionally with one passenger. VFR only is ok.
Click to expand...

N3 pup with a N number

Keep it in a field or fold the wings and in your garage or in a shared hanger.

Keep up on mx and treat it well, should be about the lest expensive stick time

6-18-2009_005.JPG
 
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LoLPilot said:
See Colts come up too! I don't think they're ugly. They're odd looking but kind of cute in a way. I worry about short wing Pipers because I've heard they glide like bricks. Apparently there are also a bunch of AD's on Colts and TriPacers regarding spontaneous combustion.
Click to expand...
I am a former Colt owner. They really aren't that bad, but they just don't have the ramp appeal that some other aircraft do. I WOULD own one again if the circumstances were right. They are often very, very cheap, too. I picked up a solid one for $12K.
 
There are at least two Colts on Barnstormers for under $14K. They can carry heavy people at the same basic performance as a 150 - maybe slightly better with a bit better range. Basically the only things better about a 150 in my mind are 1. The extra door, 2. Fabric vs. metal if you can't find a hangar, 3. Glides worse, and 4. Ramp appeal. For pretty much any other reason the Colt is better.
 
The cheapest and most bang for the buck I've flown has got to be the Sonerai IIL, hands down.

Aerobatic, very responsive and light control forces. Less than 4gph at 110kts cruise. 390lb useful load. Not a ton of power. But, it'll climb as well as a C150 with a lot better fuel economy. And I do all my own maintenance.

It is a true stick-and-rudder airplane though. Its not difficult to fly. But, you must fly it at all times.
 
LoLPilot said:
So this begs the question... is there an advantage to certified?
Click to expand...
Certified gets you a known quantity, and, depending on the age and popularity of the design, the ability to buy off-the-shelf parts.

I had to replace one of the gear legs on my Fly Baby about 20 years ago. I lucked out and found a builder that had a spare set, but otherwise I would have had to build it myself with no experience.

Also, if the airplane develops some sort of weird issue, there's likely to be someone who has experienced it before.

But for dead-lowest COST of ownership? Experimental Amateur-Built, no question. But you have to be willing to do much of your own maintenance. Depending on the complexity of the aircraft, there may not be much.

Ron Wanttaja
 
I had an o-235 powered long ez for a while. It went about 150 knots on 5 gph. Cheapest plane I ever had to both buy and operate. The engine is in the back however. Variezes are even cheaper.
 
LoLPilot said:
So this begs the question... is there an advantage to certified?
Click to expand...
I think the thing that scares me about certified, especially the 40+ year old models you're going to find that at the lower end of the price scale, is that one annual can end up costing 1/2 again what you paid for the plane. And if that happens, your hands are tied. Your options are pay the shop to have them do the fix they say it needs and do it the way they want it done, or take your airplane and make it into a lawn ornament. And the next year, or two years after that, you could be in the same boat. Wings are corroded, needs new wings, here's your bill. Nose wheel steering is worn out, needs to be rebuilt, yeah that happens on these, parts are kind of hard to find too, here's your bill. Now obviously that may never happen. But with a 40 year old airframe, a pre buy can only look at and predict so much.

And of course it goes without saying that pilot A can buy a C150 and fly it for 10 years with nothing more than oil changes and $1500 annuals while pilot B can buy a nice looking used homebuilt and have it nickel and dime him to death. But the bigger point is, when your IA decides that your C150 needs a new prop, your choices are limited to a couple of certified models trying to find a serviceable used example. When your A&P tells you your experimental needs a new prop, you've got lots more choices. And more choices generally means lower cost.
 
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