Chasing my PPL - Progress Thread...

It will be much better come to your hours in the 20's and 30's. I am still a student, with over 40 hours now. Getting close myself to the end. The bad days are all part of the training.
 
MDeitch1976 said:
It will be much better come to your hours in the 20's and 30's. I am still a student, with over 40 hours now. Getting close myself to the end. The bad days are all part of the training.
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Thanks Matt. I know they can't all be great days, and my CFI is a great instructor. I'm sure the days will come when my movements are smooth and things come second-nature rather than having to think. Until then, I'll take it a lesson at a time with a bunch of reading in-between.

I appreciate the comment!
 
CFI called me today and asked if I had any lunchtime meetings. Nope. Good, he says, you can go with me in my plane...I need some airtime. Lol! Very cool of him. He and I did a T&G at an airport about 40 miles away and got flight tracking from the tower. Then we had a lesson at 6pm that was cut short by a storm front, but I managed three landings in some fun crosswinds. Evidently I'm not fighting it enough on landings, so I need to learn to pull the yoke all the way back and go for the stall warning every time. Learning!
 
Hobobiker said:
CFI called me today and asked if I had any lunchtime meetings. Nope. Good, he says, you can go with me in my plane...I need some airtime. Lol! Very cool of him. He and I did a T&G at an airport about 40 miles away and got flight tracking from the tower. Then we had a lesson at 6pm that was cut short by a storm front, but I managed three landings in some fun crosswinds. Evidently I'm not fighting it enough on landings, so I need to learn to pull the yoke all the way back and go for the stall warning every time. Learning!
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You should never be fighting the plane, what you need to learn is to give the trim two more flicks nose up as you slow down at the bottom for your flair.
 
Henning said:
You should never be fighting the plane, what you need to learn is to give the trim two more flicks nose up as you slow down at the bottom for your flair.
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Thanks Henning! I think that's verbiage he is using to get me to flare better and not let the plane go down hard, but I'll definitely give that a try.

Thanks for the input!
 
Hobobiker said:
Thanks Henning! I think that's verbiage he is using to get me to flare better and not let the plane go down hard, but I'll definitely give that a try.

Thanks for the input!
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Never fight a plane, that's what the trim is for. You finesse a plane into doing what you want. If you are ever holding pressure, you need to trim. Fly with just the tip of your thumb and one finger on the yoke.

You're welcome, or in Australian, " No wakkas"
 
Turned in my 46-question pre-solo written to my instructor today. It was a good exercise going through the POH, AIM, Owners Manual and other resources to get all the answers. Much of it I knew, but couldn't necessarily remember verbatim. Very helpful and jogged my memory on some items that might have been glazed over quickly in the past.

On the Class III side, an AOPA resource directed me to a hypertension worksheet that I need to complete since I'm on BP meds. Scheduled an appt. with my PCP (Personal Care Physician - sorry, I work in healthcare) and we began working through it. ECG and everything else was good, but needed to have a cholesterol blood test ordered. Once I have all the info, I can take the worksheet to my AME and he can do the rest. For the colorblind aspect, I missed 16 out of 17 on the color card test, so looks like I get to pursue a light test and see if I can get a SODA (Statement of Demonstrated Ability).
 
CFI just called me and asked if I was free Friday after work. Evidently he scheduled a tour of a local control tower. We'll be flying HIS plane (translation: no cost to me, it's bigger, and faster, etc.) and then getting a tour of the facility. Very cool!

The same airport has a lot of National Guard choppers stationed there, and they use our local airport for maneuvers as well. Pretty interesting having approach tell you that you're second in line for landing because the 'copter next to you is going 130 knots while you are only doing 129.99. :D

This is fun stuff! "Thank you" to all the veteran flyers giving us newbies time and advice...
 
HOBO,

You seem to have a good instructor, calling you up, and bringing you along on these flights. I do not think that is the norm. I wish more instructors were like that.

Back to an earlier post of yours where you said you were fighting the plane on landing. When I am landing, and trim the plane out while going through the landing configurations, especially final. I can get it trimmed out to the point that my hand is just there in case a gust of wind, or a thermal requires me to do anything. It is almost an unnatural feeling at first because you feel/think that you need to be doing something. In the Piper Sport I am flying when it comes to the landing flare, it doesn't really feel like I am applying hardly any pressure at all for the flare.
 
MDeitch1976 said:
HOBO,

You seem to have a good instructor, calling you up, and bringing you along on these flights. I do not think that is the norm. I wish more instructors were like that.

Back to an earlier post of yours where you said you were fighting the plane on landing. When I am landing, and trim the plane out while going through the landing configurations, especially final. I can get it trimmed out to the point that my hand is just there in case a gust of wind, or a thermal requires me to do anything. It is almost an unnatural feeling at first because you feel/think that you need to be doing something. In the Piper Sport I am flying when it comes to the landing flare, it doesn't really feel like I am applying hardly any pressure at all for the flare.
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Thanks for the info Matt! Goes along with what Henning stated as well, and I'll be trying that on my next flight (probably tomorrow, cause I'm guessing my instructor will be letting ME fly his plane to the ATC tour, even though we can't count those hours in my logbook).

As for my CFI, I'm realizing more and more how fortunate I am to have such a great resource and friend as an educator. He even shoots me emails of AOPA and other links on a regular basis to supplement our regular material.
 
My instructor shot me an email this morning basically saying to read up on ATC communications, and that I would be doing the radio com work tonight with the flight following to the tower we are going to visit. New to me, but gotta start sometime. Guess I'll pull out my "Say Again, Please" ebook and take a crash course... :D
 
Henning said:
Never fight a plane, that's what the trim is for. You finesse a plane into doing what you want. If you are ever holding pressure, you need to trim. Fly with just the tip of your thumb and one finger on the yoke.
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Don't take this too literally - henning is right that you should never fight the plane of course, if you are pulling back hard enough that you are operating on gross motor skills/movements then you lose the fine control necessary to grease the landing.

With a PA-28 or 172 and other trainers, trimming it up enough so that the airplane holds your desired final approach speed hands off (in PA-28 about 60-65kts full flaps) is all the trimming you need to do really. If you find you are pulling back too much, the plane is probably close to forward CG limit and you can tame it quite a bit by putting 40-50lbs in the baggage compartment

In some aircraft it is helpful to roll in trim when you commence the roundout/flare but I wouldn't recommend it for a student. Its also not necessary in a trainer. Adds complexity you don't need in a very critical phase of flight, and then it can be dangerous because if you get all catywampus and nail the throttle for a go around, the nose will pitch up faster and if you're behind the plane it increases the risk of a departure stall.
 
It adds simplicity to training and landing, 2 flicks and you're trimmed for touchdown with the plane seeking the correct attitude rather than the previous attitude. Even in a 152 it makes it easier. It costs approximately 1 second to do and will save many a porpoising and ballooning cycle.
 
Strong crosswind landing and an ATC tour...

My CFI let me fly his plane to the tour of the local ATC tower, and two other planes went along with us (both 'acrobatic-type' planes, which were pretty cool to a newbie like me). I was second in line for landing at the ATC site when the controller asked the first plane which runway he wanted. Crosswinds were 15 gusting to 21, so I hear him say '33, I need the practice.' My CFI looked at me and said 'okay, he set the precedent...guess you could use the practice too'. Angled out my downwind approach because of the gusting tailwind during base. Took ALL the rudder I had to keep up the slip and was by FAR the strongest crosswind landing I've ever done, but got her down okay.

The ATC tour was great, and all the employees were very courteous and helpful. They do a lot of ATC training there for civilian and guardsmen, and welcome our GA business doing work in the patterns, etc. Even told some stories that made us feel better about botched radio calls, both from planes and the tower.
 
Re: Strong crosswind landing and an ATC tour...

Hobobiker said:
My CFI let me fly his plane to the tour of the local ATC tower, and two other planes went along with us (both 'acrobatic-type' planes, which were pretty cool to a newbie like me). I was second in line for landing at the ATC site when the controller asked the first plane which runway he wanted. Crosswinds were 15 gusting to 21, so I hear him say '33, I need the practice.' My CFI looked at me and said 'okay, he set the precedent...guess you could use the practice too'. Angled out my downwind approach because of the gusting tailwind during base. Took ALL the rudder I had to keep up the slip and was by FAR the strongest crosswind landing I've ever done, but got her down okay.

The ATC tour was great, and all the employees were very courteous and helpful. They do a lot of ATC training there for civilian and guardsmen, and welcome our GA business doing work in the patterns, etc. Even told some stories that made us feel better about botched radio calls, both from planes and the tower.
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If they have a PAR approach there, you might ask for one every now and then as they need the practice as well. They will literally talk you down the approach to the runway. This is a really useful emergency out for a VFR pilot to get down when trapped up on top, they make it very basic. There is no need for IR to ask for/practice an approach.
 
Re: Strong crosswind landing and an ATC tour...

Henning said:
If they have a PAR approach there, you might ask for one every now and then as they need the practice as well. They will literally talk you down the approach to the runway. This is a really useful emergency out for a VFR pilot to get down when trapped up on top, they make it very basic. There is no need for IR to ask for/practice an approach.
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Thanks Henning - I'll bring it up with my CFI. Scheduled to go up tomorrow, weather permitting...
 
A valuable insight. At some point it's necessary that you and the airplane come to an understanding relative to who's running the show.

Hobobiker said:
CFI called me today and asked if I had any lunchtime meetings. Nope. Good, he says, you can go with me in my plane...I need some airtime. Lol! Very cool of him. He and I did a T&G at an airport about 40 miles away and got flight tracking from the tower. Then we had a lesson at 6pm that was cut short by a storm front, but I managed three landings in some fun crosswinds. Evidently I'm not fighting it enough on landings, so I need to learn to pull the yoke all the way back and go for the stall warning every time. Learning!
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CFI shot me a txt tnite. Said that while we're waiting for my medical we'll start on class D ops tomorrow at one of the towered fields in the area. Looking forward to it...
 
Henning said:
It adds simplicity to training and landing, 2 flicks and you're trimmed for touchdown with the plane seeking the correct attitude rather than the previous attitude. Even in a 152 it makes it easier. It costs approximately 1 second to do and will save many a porpoising and ballooning cycle.
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Interesting following Hobo's progress and the advice from experienced members, Henning Sir, sorry to sound dumb, but can you clarify what amount of up trim you consider is "two flicks" and do you apply the trim while on final just prior to crossing the threshold ?
Thank you
 
Completed the last lab draw for my "Hypertension Worksheet" today and all is looking great. Have my Class III Medical appointment scheduled next Wednesday. No getting around the fact that I missed 16 out of 17 on the colorblind cards, so we'll see if I can get a SODA. While on the ATC tour I asked the tower employee to shoot the red/green light at me. No issues at all, and determining red from green was easy. He said it might make more of a difference from hundreds of feet away vs. about ten feet. Rained on my parade...:redface:

Class 'D' ops tonight. Haven't flown in over a week so looking forward to it...
 
Well, the 'good' was that I learned a little about planning my course using a sectional, how to move from true coordinates and then adjust for magnetic north and wind. Talking to the class D tower was pretty easy. The 'bad' came in the form of my landings. Approaches were good, height was good, or I was able to adjust well with slips if needed. My flare is still bad. Had two hard landings and even porpoused one. Evidently I still don't pull the yoke back far enough at the very end. Even tried Henning's idea of trimming near the very end. I guess I only have a little over 8 hours of flight time, but still think I can be nailing these things better...
 
Hobobiker said:
CFI shot me a txt tnite. Said that while we're waiting for my medical we'll start on class D ops tomorrow at one of the towered fields in the area. Looking forward to it...
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Your instructor sounds awesome, very engaged in your learning beyond just the 1.2 while the Hobbs is running. You are a fortunate one! Btw, I'm enjoying this thread as well (I'm a student at about 45 hours).
 
Hobobiker said:
Well, the 'good' was that I learned a little about planning my course using a sectional, how to move from true coordinates and then adjust for magnetic north and wind. Talking to the class D tower was pretty easy. The 'bad' came in the form of my landings. Approaches were good, height was good, or I was able to adjust well with slips if needed. My flare is still bad. Had two hard landings and even porpoused one. Evidently I still don't pull the yoke back far enough at the very end. Even tried Henning's idea of trimming near the very end. I guess I only have a little over 8 hours of flight time, but still think I can be nailing these things better...
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I spent some time reading various threads here at POA after feeling very frustrated about my landings. Kimberly and others posted about similar frustrations even after their checkrides (going XC, etc), so I'll take the advice that so many others gave them. Mistake made, learn from it and try to improve, and the only landing that really matters is the NEXT one...
 
alland said:
Interesting following Hobo's progress and the advice from experienced members, Henning Sir, sorry to sound dumb, but can you clarify what amount of up trim you consider is "two flicks" and do you apply the trim while on final just prior to crossing the threshold ?
Thank you
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I'm not NEARLY as experienced as Henning, but I think I can answer your question. He used the term two flicks, I think, to indicate that you trim the nose up when you cut power, or turn final or whatever it is you are setting up for. He used that term, but I think it's safe to say that you will learn just how much trim to put into your airplane when you chop the power to glide in, or turn final or whatever milestone you want to trim for.

In my early tailwheel training I was having trouble with my approaches. With some experimenting I learned that the trim I used for takeoff worked out pretty well for climb out and level off in the downwind leg. I learned that when I chopped the power abeam of the numbers, if I pulled four turns of the trim wheel, I would be trimmed reasonably close for my glide speed for turning base and on final.

You will have to experiment with the plane you fly and come up with a feel for how many strokes of the trim wheel, turns of the trim handle or how long to hold the trim switch, for it to be reasonably closely trimmed. It will help GREATLY while you are learning to make a good approach. Just learn to trim such that you can hold your glide speed with very little back or forward pressure on the yoke.

Hope this helps.
 
MBDiagMan said:
I'm not NEARLY as experienced as Henning, but I think I can answer your question. He used the term two flicks, I think, to indicate that you trim the nose up when you cut power, or turn final or whatever it is you are setting up for. He used that term, but I think it's safe to say that you will learn just how much trim to put into your airplane when you chop the power to glide in, or turn final or whatever milestone you want to trim for.

In my early tailwheel training I was having trouble with my approaches. With some experimenting I learned that the trim I used for takeoff worked out pretty well for climb out and level off in the downwind leg. I learned that when I chopped the power abeam of the numbers, if I pulled four turns of the trim wheel, I would be trimmed reasonably close for my glide speed for turning base and on final.

You will have to experiment with the plane you fly and come up with a feel for how many strokes of the trim wheel, turns of the trim handle or how long to hold the trim switch, for it to be reasonably closely trimmed. It will help GREATLY while you are learning to make a good approach. Just learn to trim such that you can hold your glide speed with very little back or forward pressure on the yoke.

Hope this helps.
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Thanks Doc, your explanation/suggestions will be of help to me.

I am heading back over from here in the UK to Florida next week, hopefully to finish up my PPL training, have reached solo and ready to do long x/c.
I have been flying the same 172SP for all of my 54hrs of training to date, I'm generally pretty confident with knocking out the required flight maneuvers, but my landings are a little harder than I would like, my CFI keeps telling me to lift the nose more on flare, but then I over correct and seem to start ballooning and so I push the nose down and end up with a harder drop onto the runway, that's why I asked about the trimming on final, my CFI hasn't suggested playing with the trim on landing yet, but I think it may be a big help to assist a more gentle touch down at this stage of my training, I will mention it too him next week when we fly again.

Thanks again, I'm learning so much here on POA from you pilots out there..:thumbsup:

PS. Sorry Hobo, didn't mean to hijack your thread buddy.
 
alland said:
Thanks Doc, your explanation/suggestions will be of help to me.

I am heading back over from here in the UK to Florida next week, hopefully to finish up my PPL training, have reached solo and ready to do long x/c.
I have been flying the same 172SP for all of my 54hrs of training to date, I'm generally pretty confident with knocking out the required flight maneuvers, but my landings are a little harder than I would like, my CFI keeps telling me to lift the nose more on flare, but then I over correct and seem to start ballooning and so I push the nose down and end up with a harder drop onto the runway, that's why I asked about the trimming on final, my CFI hasn't suggested playing with the trim on landing yet, but I think it may be a big help to assist a more gentle touch down at this stage of my training, I will mention it too him next week when we fly again.

Thanks again, I'm learning so much here on POA from you pilots out there..:thumbsup:

PS. Sorry Hobo, didn't mean to hijack your thread buddy.
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No worries at all! Sounds like I'm experiencing the exact same issue as you, and since I haven't broke 10 hours of flying yet maybe I shouldn't beat myself up so much. Perfectionist tendencies often don't mix well with the frustrations of learning something new...
 
Alland, I think your instructor needs a little translation here.

At a given airspeed, there is one attitude that keeps you level. Lift the nose less than that, and you haven't completed the flare (and will land flat). Lift it more than that, and you'll balloon. You don't have the freedom to pick your attitude. It's whatever keeps the aircraft flying level.

What he means, is land later. As the aircraft slows down further, the nose will need to be higher to keep it level.

This is often described as "don't land" as you're flying directly over the runway, just a few feet up.

Do make sure you have the correct approach speed -- a few extra knots can make it a lot more difficult, well out of proportion.
 
MAKG1 said:
Alland, I think your instructor needs a little translation here.

At a given airspeed, there is one attitude that keeps you level. Lift the nose less than that, and you haven't completed the flare (and will land flat). Lift it more than that, and you'll balloon. You don't have the freedom to pick your attitude. It's whatever keeps the aircraft flying level.

What he means, is land later. As the aircraft slows down further, the nose will need to be higher to keep it level.

This is often described as "don't land" as you're flying directly over the runway, just a few feet up.

Do make sure you have the correct approach speed -- a few extra knots can make it a lot more difficult, well out of proportion.
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Thanks MAKG1, you may have hit the nail on the head there, maybe I need to let the aircraft fly for longer, I don't think I have a problem with my approach and correct airspeed (only on the odd occasion has my CFI suggested I add another couple of RPM, as my home field as 50ft trees at the end of the runway, and rightly so, he doesn't like me getting too slow and low on short final), but once I am past the tree line, I do seem to have an urgency to get the aircraft on the ground, maybe I need to utilise more of the available runway while I am in the early learning part of my quest to be a pilot.
 
Good! Where you are going to touch down is largely determined by the speed and altitude over the fence. Getting the aircraft down before it's ready will result in a flat (and often firm) landing, or in a bad case, a nosegear landing and a bounce.
 
Hobobiker said:
I spent some time reading various threads here at POA after feeling very frustrated about my landings. Kimberly and others posted about similar frustrations even after their checkrides (going XC, etc), so I'll take the advice that so many others gave them. Mistake made, learn from it and try to improve, and the only landing that really matters is the NEXT one...
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On my last cross country, I had possibly the worst (and best) landing - all in one day - at two very different airports - within less than an hour.

Yes, the second landing was the good one, and yes, I sure hope it was because of how much I learned from the first one! I believe my next flight was with an instructor to an airport I'd never been to, and finally I got a fully stalled landing (stall horn and all). That and making the first taxiway never fail to put a smile on my face.

I think I've heard it will take me hundreds if not thousands of hours before most of my landings are "good" or higher.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I think I've heard it will take me hundreds if not thousands of hours before most of my landings are "good" or higher.
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Well, you had one! ;)

Don't beat yourself up over it. Even the highest time person here still bumps one on, once in a while.

I made a craptastic plopper for two new guys to my flying and airplane last two weekends ago. Always good to be humbled after a nice flight. Ha.

Same old story. Fixated for some reason three feet off the nose, and plop. Gotta look down that darn runway.
 
MAKG1 said:
Good! Where you are going to touch down is largely determined by the speed and altitude over the fence. Getting the aircraft down before it's ready will result in a flat (and often firm) landing, or in a bad case, a nosegear landing and a bounce.
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Single best piece of advice I ever got during my training is above! I had a tendency to try and make the plane land and that just will never work. Here's what eventually worked for me- most of the time mind you.:wink2:

When approaching the runway make sure you are on airspeed. It's so important because if you cut the throttle going to fast you will have a much longer float down the runway which will not help the desire to make the plane land. Then, for me anyway, my breakthrough happened when I realized that my job after cutting the throttle was to keep the plane flying so that it can slow down. You will be able to tell when the plane is slowing down as it happens pretty fast in the 172. It was so hard for me to fight the urge to put the plane down at this point but don't, because not great things will happen. At the point where the plane has actually slowed down, your job is to assure the main wheels hit first so pull back to basically climb up attitude and, if you've waited for the plane to slow down, you'll hit mains first.

Now, by no means does it work out so well every time for me because as one of the posters above said, airspeed is the critical componenet in all of this. I experienced a bunch of frustration with landing so I thought I'd share the thought process that helped me make sense of the landing process.

You might want to ask your CFI to land the plane and you watch the airspeed indicator to see how relatively quickly the airspeed bleeds off. That might help you get a sense of the timing of everything.
 
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Good advice on the landings...thanks everyone! My Class III physical is scheduled in about 15 minutes from now, AFTER an intense 7:30am meeting and two large cups of coffee, so this should be quite interesting. :yikes:
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I think I've heard it will take me hundreds if not thousands of hours before most of my landings are "good" or higher.
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I think we all go through a progression on landing skill. First we have to learn the concept (aim at ground, then round), then we learn the pitch attitudes, then we learn to continue pulling/stall. Somewhere in there we should land to plan far enough ahead that the aircraft stops flying where we want it to do so.

It's not necessarily hours but number of landing attempts. It took me about 100 attempts to be comfortable aiming at the ground and rounding out. I probably spent another couple hundred attempts getting past the pitch for attitude and let the aircraft hit stage. After about 500 attempts I could consistently roll it on (until I plop it on one more time...grrr).

Everyone is different so some people need fewer attempts, others more. No big deal, it just takes careful practice.
 
My Class III is in the books! Won't have my copy for a day or two only because the lady who "types them up" isn't working today. Sounds like the next one I'll do online anyway. As expected, it denotes that I'm colorblind and I need to pursue the FAA SODA, but otherwise all went well.

One more step down...
 
Contacted Allegheny FSDO, who were great in helping me understand that my AME actually kicks off the SODA testing process. They led me to 8900.1, which I printed out and will drop off to my AME so he can do what he needs to do (he asked that I bring him a copy). Evidently a Letter of Authorization will be sent to both me and the Allegheny FSDO, and then we'll schedule the test at an appropriate airport.

Whew...
 
CFI txts me this morning and asks "if you passed the medical yesterday, what's the delay with your paperwork?" I tell him that they didn't have anyone to type it. We're scheduled to fly at 5:00 tonight and he responds "check to see if they can get it to you today in case you solo..." :D

Winds are forecast to gust at 20 though, so my hopes aren't up too high. At 8.2 total hours though, it's a confidence booster that he's got that on his mind...
 
Not wanting to bore anyone with all this, but remember I am trying to document my journey for myself, my son, etc. Local AME gave me the number of the Eastern Region Flight Surgeon to call in NY for my color deficiencies. Called the office and the lady who answered the phone was great. She is emailing me a list of optomologists and tests that I can pursue to see if I am safe to fly at night and/or with color signal controls. Will probably go this route instead of the SODA/Light Test for now.

Also received my Class III paperwork today. Pretty proud of it, if for no other reason than I got to sign my name on the "Airman's Signature" line. :D
 
Hobobiker said:
Also received my Class III paperwork today. Pretty proud of it, if for no other reason than I got to sign my name on the "Airman's Signature" line. :D
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Hey, be proud of it! It's your first honest to goodness Pilot Certificate. You're now among a very small percentage of the population, and well on your way to becoming a member of an even smaller group.
 
Did the solo thing tonight. Awesome feeling! Instructor took pics and video with his iPad, which he'll share with me tomorrow. Been smiling all night... :D
 
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