Champ down right next to my home base

MassPilot

MassPilot

Cleared for Takeoff
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Messages
1,089
Location
Melbourne, FL
Display Name
Display name:
FloridaPilot
http://www.boston.com/metrodesk/201...plane-crash/7oNGU0XNdldU3ZNVtoOvXN/story.html

This happened in Taunton early yesterday morning, about 11 nm from 1B9 where I fly out of. The plane crashed shortly after takeoff.

I've read multiple reports that the police were first called at 6:38 am (1038Z). Taunton has an ASOS and I looked up the historical METARs:
SPECI KTAN 250957Z AUTO 00000KT 3/4SM BR CLR 07/06 A3033 RMK AO2 T00670061=

SPECI KTAN 251036Z AUTO 00000KT 1 3/4SM BR CLR 08/07 A3035 RMK AO2 VIS 3/4V4 T00780067=

METAR KTAN 251052Z AUTO 00000KT 2 1/2SM BR CLR 09/08 A3036 RMK AO2 VIS 1 1/4V5 SLP280 T00940083=

SPECI KTAN 251059Z AUTO 00000KT 9SM CLR 10/09 A3036 RMK AO2 T01000094=
Click to expand...

It apppears to me that they took off in low visiblity conditions, which would have cleared up if they waited less than 30 min.
 
With the weather the way it has been this weekend if they'd waited less than an hour it would have been clear and a million :(
 
Looks like a typical morning weather report for TAN. I would wait for a preliminary report before making an assumption on what went wrong.there could be other factors involved.
 
From an airport official:

For such planes, he said, there is no requirement to file a flight plan or sign in and out of the airport, which has complicated efforts to identify the dead.

“It’s just like you get in your car and drive. You don’t have to tell anybody where you’re going,” he said.
 
According to the article, didn't file a flight plan.:rolleyes:

I note from the Champ POH I happen to use when getting my TW Endorsement, "3.8 Inadvertent Flight into Clouds DO NOT enter clouds in this airplane."

Cheers
 
frfly172 said:
Looks like a typical morning weather report for TAN. I would wait for a preliminary report before making an assumption on what went wrong.there could be other factors involved.
Click to expand...

The plane was so badly demolished and incinerated that they didn't know for a while whether it had two seats or four, and they're still awaiting dental-record confirmation of the occupants' identity. So unless someone witnessed the crash, there may not be much more information forthcoming.
 
X3 Skier said:
According to the article, didn't file a flight plan.:rolleyes:

I note from the Champ POH I happen to use when getting my TW Endorsement, "3.8 Inadvertent Flight into Clouds DO NOT enter clouds in this airplane."

Cheers
Click to expand...
Well that is pretty stait forward :thumbsup::D
 
How do you NOT INADVERTENTLY enter clouds? :dunno:
 
There was supposedly one witness to the crash.
 
Not making much sense to me. Maybe they meant elevator gust lock.



it appeared that the plane’s rudder-control gust lock was still in place. A gust lock, which keeps the rudder stable when the plane is stationary, is usually removed before takeoff.
“The effect of that gust lock on the accident flight is something that will be analyzed later,” Schiada said. “At this point we’re still in the fact-gathering stage of the investigation.”
He added that investigators still don’t know the cause of the crash and that the rest of the investigation will determine what happened.
The plane, identified as a 1946 Aeronca 7AC, crashed shortly after taking off at 6:15 a.m. Sunday.
Schiada, who is based out of Auburn, Va., and was sent to Taunton to participate in the investigation, said the 911 call came in from a witness who has hangar at the airport. The witness, Schiada said, saw the plane take off and climb 50-100 feet before entering a “gradual right turn,” then continue into the ground where it burst into flames almost immediately.


Read more: http://www.tauntongazette.com/news/...tal-Taunton-plane-crash-ongoing#ixzz2d6pZNUwF
Follow us: @TauntonToGo on Twitter | TauntonToGo on Facebook
Click to expand...
 
dell30rb said:
Not making much sense to me. Maybe they meant elevator gust lock.
Click to expand...

Even that doesn't make any sense, you'd have to climb over the darn stick to get in the thing if it was locked in neutral.
 
Silvaire said:
How do you NOT INADVERTENTLY enter clouds? :dunno:
Click to expand...

Um... dont launch in a Champ when its not legal VMC?
Ive done a little Champ flying in typical marginal morning SoCal stuff... departed two hours later than planned because the hills east of KSDM were not visible yet . The locals hipped me to that "yardstick", and it was good advice.
Cant imagine doing much more, in IMC in a little no-gyro plane like that, than full back trim, feet on the floor, and sit on your hands... then wait and see.Or maybe wait witb eyes closed.
Even "ground contact" flying would be very hazardous.

Im sooo tired of these accidents (assuming it really was a bad "go" call).... and the IFR equivalent: launch into known ice or convection. In any case, RIP to these two and what was once a perfectly good Champ. Very sad.
 
rottydaddy said:
Um... don[']t launch in a Champ when it[']s not legal VMC?
Click to expand...

It was legal VMC in Class G. If he'd gotten above the mist by 700', he could have continued climbing in Class E.

As discussed above, the weather does not seem like the most likely cause of this crash.
 
Last edited:
rottydaddy said:
Um... dont launch in a Champ when its not legal VMC?
Click to expand...

You're missing my point: inadvertently means without intention so the answer to the question was - don't do what you already just did.
 
If theres one thing I learned while getting my tailwheel endorsement, is that you learn acactly why GOD GAVE you feet! Left rudder, right rudder, left, right, right... It's a tapping dance while you taxi and on takeoff. Can't see why the pilot didn't realize this as the airplane moved down the runway, accelerating :/

A good friend told me that aviation is a self cleansing fraternity... sad to say Thoughts and prayers to the family and pilot
 
akpilot907 said:
...Can't see why the pilot didn't realize this as the airplane moved down the runway, accelerating :/...
Click to expand...

Not to mention just getting to the runway. I can't imagine how it would even be possible with the rudder locked and I own a Champ.
 
Silvaire said:
Not to mention just getting to the runway. I can't imagine how it would even be possible with the rudder locked and I own a Champ.
Click to expand...

Champs are great airplanes! A good tailwheel trainner... I have a 73' 7GCBC Scout.. Love that thing...
 
acrophile said:
"Luke Schiada, senior air safety investigator with the NTSB’s office of aviation safety, said Monday that after examining the crash site, it appeared that the plane’s gust lock was still in place."

http://www.tauntongazette.com/topst...gation-into-fatal-Taunton-plane-crash-ongoing
Click to expand...


The seatbelt???

I learned how to fly in a 7AC, even did my CPL land add-on in one, only gust lock Ive ever seen was a seatbelt pinning the stick back.

If NTSB means one of those external bolt through rudder locks, Im surprised that they were even able to taxi out to the runway like that!

Guess we'll find out whatever there is to find out when the investigation is complete.
 
Last edited:
So question for the aeronca guys (and gals).. Does a rudder lock on these planes lock the rudder to the right ?

The part about the gradual right turn on takeoff sounds odd with p factor in a single engine plane.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
 
dottat said:
So question for the aeronca guys (and gals).. Does a rudder lock on these planes lock the rudder to the right ?

The part about the gradual right turn on takeoff sounds odd with p factor in a single engine plane.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
Click to expand...


The ones I've seen lock it straight like the clear one in the top of the rudder in this picture

DCP_0017.jpg
 
In reference to the above photo: I can't think of a worse material to make a clamp on external control lock out of than clear Plexiglas but regardless, it would be completely impossible to taxi a Champ with the rudder locked.
 
Silvaire said:
In reference to the above photo: I can't think of a worse material to make a clamp on external control lock out of than clear Plexiglas but regardless, it would be completely impossible to taxi a Champ with the rudder locked.
Click to expand...

Unless this guy was very complacent and used brakes to taxi... Highly doubt he ignored the fact that the pedals couldn't move.... :yikes:
 
Brakes won't steer you unless you knock the tailwheel out of the detent and even then it would re-engage when you started going straight again. I just don't see how it would be possible to taxi and take off in a Champ with the rudder locked. Had to be something else.
 
Lets see, CIGAR? C = Controls (including s-turns),........

I don't understand.:(

Cheers
 
We discussed that. Getting into a Champ with the elevator locked in the neutral position is going to take some physical contortion to get your foot and leg around the stick and every taildragger pilot instinctively holds the stick back during run-up. If he hadn't noticed a control lock being in place by the time he had gotten to the runway I'm afraid it was only a matter of time anyway.

Other than the "retarded press" I'm not buying any of this.
 
The article--especially last night's revision--includes extensive direct quotes from a named NTSB investigator regarding the rudder gust lock. It's hard to see how that could all be a reporting error.

Is it possible that there was some known problem with the rudder, and that the gust lock was deliberately left in place as a temporary workaround? (I'm not familiar with the plane at all, so I have no idea if that's plausible.)
 
The only thing I can imagine as plausible is that he busted it loose somehow but it was still partially hanging on and jammed up after he took off. Either that or his tie down spot was perfectly lined up with the runway and he never made a turn while taxiing. The rudder cables connect directly to the rudder and the steering springs connect from their to the tailwheel. There's no possible way to steer the plane with the rudder locked, not even with brakes unless you break the tailwheel free of the detent.

Maybe the tailwheel detent was busted and he'd been steering it on the ground with brakes but outside of that there ain't no way.
 
What if the gust lock broke loose while the airplane was being taxied and it got stuck on the elevator?
 
Another case of "airman failed to take full advantage of his "last chance" walkaround".

Sigh.
 
hmmm...

Could have been a couple of punks who stole the plane thinking they could fly it since they had played with MS simulator too much.......:dunno::dunno::dunno:
 
bbchien said:
Another case of "airman failed to take full advantage of his "last chance" walkaround".

Sigh.
Click to expand...
I guess so... but like others here, I have to wonder how a locked rudder- not jammed to one side or the other, but locked in the neutral position- would A) go unnoticed to the point of takeoff and B) cause a loss of control in flight with a Champ. I think the worst that would happen be a bit of sloppy slipping in normal turns,not a stall/spin or whatever. I still think (based on the little I know about this one) that it had more to do with the weather.
Kinda sounds like they were in a hurry... incomplete walkaround and refusal to wait for takeoff until it was "Champ friendly" VMC, not marginal VMC or IMC.
 
I read over on the red board that the current theory is the rudder gust lock slipped off/down and jammed the elevator.

Sounds reasonable if it happen after lift off but why it was missed on preflight would be the primary cause.

The gust lock on the Champ I flew was the seat belt

Cheers
 
acrophile said:
By the way, the news reports were indeed quoting the NTSB accurately regarding the rudder gust lock. Here's the press conference:

http://www.patriotledger.com/shared...press-conference-at-Taunton-Municipal-Airport
Click to expand...

Yup. I read the latest reports and that is indeed what they are saying. I still have no idea how you could taxi a Champ to a runway and not know that the rudder was locked. I have a couple for my Champ, they are foam backed, hockey-puck sized plastic orange disks with a bolt and streamers and the only place to use them is on the upper portion of the rudder and vertical stab as shown in the earlier picture.

I've never tried it but maybe it's possible to move the rudder with those things installed. I mean you'd be bending the crap out of everything and it would have to feel awful darn stiff - I don't know, can't explain it.

The NTSB guy said the rudder control lock was engaged but they aren't sure what role it may have played in the accident. If it was engaged and it didn't cause the crash I'll have to say it was those guy's day to check out because obviously fate was out to get them.:dunno:
 
Drunk enough not to notice the rudder lock? Or simply overpowered the lock.
 
Silvaire said:
The NTSB guy said the rudder control lock was engaged but they aren't sure what role it may have played in the accident.
Click to expand...

Maybe the distraction, combined with the poor visibility, kept the pilot from noticing the plane's slow roll.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top