CFI ride this week...

thezoolityre

Pre-takeoff checklist
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thezoolityre
Hey Folks, I am sure there are a few places on this sight with subjects like these, but I am getting worked up for this test as it is only 3 days away. I am making this thread to try and get an opinion on what was covered for both your ground oral and flight practical and anything you know I HAVE to know (besides the required TASK's in the PTS). Things I have covered left to right:
-FOIs
-AC 61-65E (endorsements)
-FAR's 61, 91, and a little of 141

I am only nervous about some technical subject areas and am also nervous about how much give I will have if I don't know the answer or the place to find it quickly...

Any help is appreciated...
 
Well I know it's difficult but the worst thing you can do is get all panickey and let yourself get worked up. Try to just stay positive and collective. You're going to have to show confidence. You'll probably need to give a lesson on something so have some lesson plans. Know systems inside and out and how to react to different emergencies. On your flight, don't let it get silent, talk out everything you do but don't bury yourself in holes which leave a bunch of questions to be asked. They will try to distract you and maybe throw you off or try to get you to foget something. Just be cool, rely on your training and studying. About an hour of my 5 hour oral was talking politics so if you can get them talking about something they're interested in it may help.
 
Well I know it's difficult but the worst thing you can do is get all panickey and let yourself get worked up. Try to just stay positive and collective. You're going to have to show confidence. You'll probably need to give a lesson on something so have some lesson plans. Know systems inside and out and how to react to different emergencies. On your flight, don't let it get silent, talk out everything you do but don't bury yourself in holes which leave a bunch of questions to be asked. They will try to distract you and maybe throw you off or try to get you to foget something. Just be cool, rely on your training and studying. About an hour of my 5 hour oral was talking politics so if you can get them talking about something they're interested in it may help.

Cool, I am already calming down, I was so worked up because today I had the exam date finalized and was nervous because it finally hit me that all this training has come to this and it is happening! Thanks for the advice, and trust me, at my flight school I am known for talking a lot so not keeping the airplane silent shouldn't be a problem
 
I am only nervous about some technical subject areas and am also nervous about how much give I will have if I don't know the answer or the place to find it quickly...

Any help is appreciated...

I think the key to getting stumped is to not guess and make nonsense up (hello Primacy :) ) -- just like if a student asks you some left-field question that you don't know. Treat the examiner like a curious student and own the fact that you are responsible for giving high-quality and accurate instruction with EVERY answer and concept -- even the ones you don't know well.

You can't know it all. Know where to find it, even if it's not quick. Admit it to the examiner and explain what you would do if a student asked you that very question.

My initial oral exam was 6 hours of my talking quite nonstop -- including following my examiner through the aisles of best buy on a shopping trip while spewing part 61 facts, and standing under the wing of a king air while he took photos of planes. He caught every single mistake I made during that marathon. But he was never unprofessional, unempathetic, nor did he fail me or lecture me. I also admitted the things I knew I did not know, and he would prod me with a hint, or stop and explain where to find it, why it was important, and how to convey the info to a student.

It's a good experience. Sounds like you'll work yourself into a froth in preparation and it will go fine. I brought 60# of books, materials, training aids, and syllabi to my ride. You should've seen him roll his eyes at me. :D

$0.02 and Good Luck

- Mike
 
It really all depends on the examiner and what they like to talk about. What they like to see in you and what they want to see you know. Like what was said earlier, don't guess if you don't know. I would stay up to date on where to find information resonably quick. On my CFI ride, the examiner was a stickler for aerodynamics and stalls. He wanted to see that you understood everything about the subject. I have heard he was like that with others as well, so it must be his thing.
 
It's about teaching... and teachers are expected to know what they don't know, and know how to do the research to come up with the answer.

So if you get asked an oddball question on a topic like maintenance or medical issues or other stuff that would be outside your "core" body of knowledge, you should feel just fine to say "I don't know, let's look at the regs relating to that subject, or the AIM, and if we still have questions we'll call in an expert".

My ASI had a background in maintenance, so we got into log entries and the definition of airworthiness, and by the end of the discussion I was asking HIM questions. But he was pleased that I knew what I did and that I knew where my knowledge stopped.
 
ugh mine is coming soon, gonna have to set a date soon. Looking forward to it but not really, HA!

Plus side, I did get my spin endorsement today...damn that was fun!
 
ugh mine is coming soon, gonna have to set a date soon. Looking forward to it but not really, HA!

Plus side, I did get my spin endorsement today...damn that was fun!


Congrats on the spin endo! Spins are good clean fun.
 
The most important thing to remember about the CFI ticket is that it’s all about teaching, not flying. You will be judged more on your ability to impart learning to your student than on any demonstration of your own pilot skills. The Aviation Instructor's Handbook book is rather dry, and (considering that it’s supposed to be prepared by professionals who really know about teaching) not all that easy to learn from. However, the important data are there, and you’d best learn not only to parrot them, but to understand what they mean and apply them when you teach (and if you don’t recognize these “levels of learning” you’re not ready yet). You will have to be able to read the student’s mind to find out whether he’s really learned the material or not, and if not, WHY not. Then you must be able to figure out how to get past whatever barrier to understanding exists in that student’s mind. You’ll find that there are as many successful techniques as there are students, but there may only be one of those many that works for any one particular student. Being able to hit on one that will work quickly, before the student becomes discouraged, is the toughest part of flight instructing.

How to work through this? Get with some successful teachers, not necessarily pilots. I’m talking about someone you know who’s an experienced high school teacher, one that the kids remember long after graduation as the highlight of their experience. Talk about teaching and learning with this person. You might also consider some basic education courses at the local college.

Finally, here are a few points I put together to get your mind right for the initial CFI checkride:

1. You are a teacher, not a pilot. How you teach is far more important than how you fly the plane. It doesn't matter if you slightly screw up a maneuver, as long as you identify the screw-up as it happens, talk about why it happened, and then how to do it right.

2. Don't rush into any answers. When asked questions, show the examiner where the answer is written -- you're showing how to teach a student, not demonstrating your own superior knowledge. That means you should know COLD where to find the answers -- if asked about the red/green/white tower light gun signals, it shouldn't take you more than a few seconds to get to the right page in the AIM. And you should know instantly whether an answer to an FAR question is in Part 61 or Part 91 (HINT: If the rule applies no matter who's flying the plane, it's in 91. If not, it's in 61.)

3. Be relaxed and organized. When asked a to teach an item, take a moment to gather your thoughts and draw out any blackboard diagrams or itemized lists for the lesson. You're not on "Jeopardy" -- there's no one gonna beat you to the buzzer and steal your $200 prize.

4. Inventory your stuff before you go to the meet -- the checklist in the PTS is a good tool. Make sure you have all the source materials to teach as well as answer all the questions in the PTS.

5. Typically, during the oral, the examiner will jump on one topic and continue asking questions until you run out of answers. In the Air Force, we called this game "Stump the Dummy." As the questioner knows more than the questionee about the topic he selected (which is why the questioner selected it), the final outcome (the dummy is stumped) is never in doubt. The critical elements are how far the dummy can get before being stumped, and how he handles the situation -- straight knowledge, clear explanations, use of the book when appropriate or necessary, and no BS or tap-dancing when finally stumped.

6. Expect a long, grueling session. You're being given the authority to release others into the sky without anyone else's oversight. They want to make damn sure you can make good decisions in that respect. For that reason, I think the initial CFI is the most significant ride you'll ever take.

Good luck,
Ron Levy
CFI since 1973
 
It's very hard to put the need to be a teacher ahead of your very natural inclination to feel like you have to fly every maneuver to perfection.
The FOI may be the most difficult part. I'd memorize or learn extremely well that book and the main principles. Most of us shy away from it because it's not our interest or especially well written.
You've been given some very good advice. The first CFI test is toughest - after you have passed the FOI and gone through the CFI, the add-on instructor ratings seemed much easier to me.
Part way through a very grueling exercise, keep your confidence and spirit up. It's a tough test.
 
Howdy folks, I already have my CFI-I now as well, and the CFI ride was very tough, but I passed and the I-I ride was joke in comparison
 
Howdy folks, I already have my CFI-I now as well, and the CFI ride was very tough, but I passed and the I-I ride was joke in comparison

Congratulations!

FSDO or DPE?

Assuming you don't want to post a narrative (if you did, many would appreciate it ;)), can I ask for some examples of things you had particular trouble with? Tricky questions or whatever. Thanks!
 
Know your stuff cold ..sincere preparatiom tends to yield good results.

The john king dvd where he takes the cfi oral and ride in real time is solid gold.
 
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