CFI Rating and Liability

A settlement that gets the insurance company and the named insured off the hook is fine (though possibly morally repugnant). I was concerned with a situation where you're sued for 10 million, your insurance coverage is 1 million, and your insurance company settles for 1 million or a portion thereof and you're still exposed for the other 9. In cases of gross or criminal negligence that's understandable - the insurance company only signed up for 1 million of exposure, but in cases where you may not have been negligent at all I don't think the insurance companies are allowed to pay off and abandon you.

Well, my personal experience (which was not aviation related, and is just one data point, but...) was that the insurance company refused to settle with any of the potential claiments until a settlment could be made with all of them to avoid this possibilty. (I was the owner of a vehicle that was involved in a very tragic crash.)
 
Here is a question (on topic):

After the FAA Certificates YOUR student, how can you really be held liable? Isn't this just a legal game of hot-potato? Shouldn't the last one to touch the student be held accountable? Wouldn't the FAA be at fault for certificating a poorly trained pilot?

I know that this is not what usually happens, but since I am not a lawyer I really don't have the answer to this. Anybody else know?

I guess what happens is the family just sues everyone and the judges/lawyers figure out what sticks.....

--Matt Rogers
 
After the FAA Certificates YOUR student, how can you really be held liable? Isn't this just a legal game of hot-potato? Shouldn't the last one to touch the student be held accountable? Wouldn't the FAA be at fault for certificating a poorly trained pilot?
I think the answers to your questions may be found in the paper Dan posted earlier.
I guess what happens is the family just sues everyone and the judges/lawyers figure out what sticks.....
...and since that can happen, the insurer's affirmative duty to defend you is by itself worth the price of the insurance policy. The price you'd pay out of your own pocket for a lawyer just to get you out of the suit before trial on fundamental legal grounds would be frightening.
 
Another area that has not been discussed:

Often CFIs are asked to advise on the airworthiness of a plane.

Student pilots (and renters who are not students) who find something unexpected or different during the pre-flight (or who experience something unexpected during flight) ask a CFI if it is ok to fly that plane.

At some flight schools, a CFI reviews squawks submitted by students/renters. I'm not sure what they are reviewing them for, but they are somehow in the "squawk" process

It would seem that answering these kinds of questions would expose the CFI to additional potential liability.

Any thoughts? Specific cases?

--david
 
Another area that has not been discussed:

Often CFIs are asked to advise on the airworthiness of a plane.

Student pilots (and renters who are not students) who find something unexpected or different during the pre-flight (or who experience something unexpected during flight) ask a CFI if it is ok to fly that plane.

At some flight schools, a CFI reviews squawks submitted by students/renters. I'm not sure what they are reviewing them for, but they are somehow in the "squawk" process
The ones I'm familiar with are where CFIs are used to confirm the squawks (student squawks the radio - CFI finds the panel toggle wasn't switched to 'headset'). The purpose is to avoid unnecessary shop fees, not to determine whether a student should fly an unairworthy airplane.

As with many of the other scenarios, liability is theoretical, but you'd be hard-pressed to find cases.
 
Often CFIs are asked to advise on the airworthiness of a plane.

Student pilots (and renters who are not students) who find something unexpected or different during the pre-flight (or who experience something unexpected during flight) ask a CFI if it is ok to fly that plane.
There is no question in my mind that based on the case law discussed above, if a CFI tells a Student Pilot that a particular aircraft condition is OK for flight, that CFI incurs liability for the consequences. However, also based on the case law above, the situation might well change if the question is asked by a rated pilot, but as a CFI, I would assume that I'm still on the hook for my answer and would respond accordingly, tending towards the "if it ain't fixed, don't fly it" position.
 
There is no question in my mind that based on the case law discussed above, if a CFI tells a Student Pilot that a particular aircraft condition is OK for flight, that CFI incurs liability for the consequences. However, also based on the case law above, the situation might well change if the question is asked by a rated pilot, but as a CFI, I would assume that I'm still on the hook for my answer and would respond accordingly, tending towards the "if it ain't fixed, don't fly it" position.

I'm wondering why a CFI would put him/her self in a position to declare an a/c airworthy or not?

If everything works IAW the POH and common practice (There's no POH discussion on windows, for example), then it's AW.

If something does not work IAW its design, then the owner must mark it INOP (unless there is a MEL or it's required for the type flight) if the flight can be continued otherwise, or the a/c is grounded (missing aileron).

If there's something that may prevent the a/c from operating as designed (a dent, a stuck cowl flap, etc), then a call to the Mechanic is in order -- for an entry to the log or correction.

From the beginning I ask my students to go through the mental exercise of airworthiness. So far all my students have been owners, so it's critical they know how.

As a staff CFI flying rentals, I could see where the CFI becomes the representative for the owner and thus the arbiter of airworthiness before the student is at the place he/she can make that determination.

But is there a case where a low time student relied on the CFI to determine airworthiness, there was a subsequent crash, and the CFI was found culpable because of that determination?
 
I'm wondering why a CFI would put him/her self in a position to declare an a/c airworthy or not?
If your student comes to you and asks you to look at something s/he found on preflight, are you not going to give that student an answer as to whether it's OK to fly it or not? Or will you just say, "Ask the mechanic"? Or what?
If everything works IAW the POH and common practice (There's no POH discussion on windows, for example), then it's AW.
You know that, but how does your student know that?
If something does not work IAW its design, then the owner must mark it INOP (unless there is a MEL or it's required for the type flight) if the flight can be continued otherwise, or the a/c is grounded (missing aileron).
How about a dent in the aileron? Or tire/brake wear?
If there's something that may prevent the a/c from operating as designed (a dent, a stuck cowl flap, etc), then a call to the Mechanic is in order -- for an entry to the log or correction.
You think every little ding and dent in the plane is going to get corrected? Or that the mechanic will make a log entry saying the ding/dent isn't unairworthy? Or that there's even a mechanic always available when flight training is in progress? It's just not as simple as you make it sound, and sometimes the instructor has to say, "Yeah, that's OK" in order to keep things rolling.
 
If your student comes to you and asks you to look at something s/he found on preflight, are you not going to give that student an answer as to whether it's OK to fly it or not? Or will you just say, "Ask the mechanic"? Or what?
You know that, but how does your student know that?
How about a dent in the aileron? Or tire/brake wear?
You think every little ding and dent in the plane is going to get corrected? Or that the mechanic will make a log entry saying the ding/dent isn't unairworthy? Or that there's even a mechanic always available when flight training is in progress? It's just not as simple as you make it sound, and sometimes the instructor has to say, "Yeah, that's OK" in order to keep things rolling.

Then I'm fortunate, having access to two A&P IAs at the airfield I usually fly from, or nearby from a satellite field.

As far as what the student finds, I will let them do what they should given the stage they are in training. If it's a new student, I will walk them through the process out loud -- the process being:
Is this an issue? (the aforementioned radio Inop squawk is really switch to wrong position)

If so, then:

  1. Consult the POH
  2. Consult A/C Maintenance manual
  3. Determine expected Performance (IAW normally accepted use)
  4. Owner Deferment (INOP sticker or pulled for maintenance)
  5. Mechanic review
  6. mechanic sign off
  7. mechanic repair
Why wouldn't I want to model that for the student?

As far as "every little ding and repair," there is guidance for IA to use to determine if that nick/ding is cause for concern or not. If that little ding loosens a fastener (rivet), breaks the surface, or affects a rib, then you'd better believe I'll not fly until it's inspected.

As a CFI it's my job to guide the student through the airworthiness thinking process. Again -- depending on the level of the student. If it's hour 3 for a student, then it's going to be me talking him/her through the mental process and then supply a judgment (which he/she can choose to ignore, I suppose, though that's unlikely).

If it's hour 10 with a Commercial student, the response may be, "What are you going to do?" with a Socratic give and take until a decision is made.

But I don't see why -- when an item brought to my attention -- I would simply say, "It's fine, let's go..." without explaining (to a new student) or guiding (to a about-to-be private pilot) how that conclusion was reached and what the remedies/options are if together we can't make that determination.
 
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Not to resurrect a dead thread, but has there been ANY FAA action against a CFI who was NOT providing instruction in an aircraft just because he was there when something untoward happened? As in asleep in the back seat kind of scenario?

How about civil action?

I understand the difference but how would one minimize exposure to a civil lawsuit?
 
Not to resurrect a dead thread, but has there been ANY FAA action against a CFI who was NOT providing instruction in an aircraft just because he was there when something untoward happened? As in asleep in the back seat kind of scenario?

How about civil action?

I understand the difference but how would one minimize exposure to a civil lawsuit?
I recall Ron recently writing of just such an action against a CFI who was in the back seat with two supposedly competent and properly certificated pilots in front.

I'd love to read the details of that case since it has come up in my own mind again just last week.
 
I recall Ron recently writing of just such an action against a CFI who was in the back seat with two supposedly competent and properly certificated pilots in front.

I'd love to read the details of that case since it has come up in my own mind again just last week.

As I recall, that was the one and only CIVIL suit filed against a CFI in that situation.
 
Not to resurrect a dead thread, but has there been ANY FAA action against a CFI who was NOT providing instruction in an aircraft just because he was there when something untoward happened? As in asleep in the back seat kind of scenario?
To my knowledge, the FAA has never done so when the CFI was not actively instructing or occupying a control station.
How about civil action?
The case (which I can't find on line because I don't have full legal search capability any more) involved a CFI asleep in the back row of a Cherokee Six with a PP-ASEL flying. Night, marginal conditions, yadda-yadda, the PP-ASEL screwed up and they crashed with the CFI still asleep at impact. The other passengers sued the CFI for damages for their injuries along with the pilot. They argued the CFI knew the flight would be excessively challenging for that PP, and had a duty to provide advice or instruction to prevent the crash. The jury agreed that the CFI had such a duty, failed in that duty, and was therefore negligent in his own right, and they assigned a percentage of the blame to the CFI. That meant the CFI was hit for that percentage of the damages to the other passengers. I suspect that Newberger v. Pokrass was cited by the plaintiffs.
I understand the difference but how would one minimize exposure to a civil lawsuit?
Either do what you can to keep the pilot from screwing up, or don't get in the airplane.
 
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To my knowledge, the FAA has never done so when the CFI was not actively instructing or occupying a control station.

How about not actively instructing but the CFI WAS occupying a control station?

Yeah, I know. I would hope that the CFI would do everything in his power in that case to prevent the untoward thing from happening, but weird things DO happen.
 
Yeah? And what was the conclusion?
He was held responsible on the theory that he became the PIC when he took over the controls to demonstrate something.

Ultimately, you can always find the one case that supports a paranoid view of how the regs and laws are applied. There's a reason people point to =one= case on certain subjects. In law, as in life, sh*t happens. If you choose to use the odd case as your basis for decisions, you'll ultimately decide to stay home in bed under the covers.

btw, I do have full search capability and can't find the case Ron alludes to. There is a 1962 case that involves multiple pilots in a light aircraft making (or not) a decision about flying into bad weather where one of them might have bee asleem, but nothing in it has anything to do with one of them being a CFI.
 
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btw, I do have full search capability and can't find the case Ron alludes to. There is a 1962 case that involves multiple pilots in a light aircraft making (or not) a decision about flying into bad weather where one of them might have bee asleem, but nothing in it has anything to do with one of them being a CFI.
That could be it and I was misinformed about the CFI aspect. Can you give me a citation so I can try to dig it up? Thanks!

But overall, I agree with Mark that legal paranoia is easy to develop if you read enough cases. OTOH, I also believe that if you stay alert to the dangers and make sure the PIC knows about them, you will have nothing to worry about. Every time you see a case like this, there were plenty of warning signs that someone chose to ignore. That brief on CFI liability Dan pointed out in post #6 above seems to support my belief.
 
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That could be it and I was misinformed about the CFI aspect. Can you give me a citation so I can try to dig it up? Thanks!
The one I came across is Schnedl v. Rich, 137 So.2d 1, a 1962 case out of Florida. It's an appeal in a wrongful death case, mostly about the damages awarded.

The asleep part is that the plaintiff's lawyer argued that the defendant's lawyer made an improper argument. that the deceased, who may have been asleep in the back seat, was part of the decision that lead to the crash.

It's not much. Here's part of the case that deals with the sleeping passenger issue.

==============================
The plaintiff's husband was killed in an airplane crash in which the defendant's decedent, Russell E. Rich, owner and pilot of the airplane, was also killed. The two men, with one other, were flying from Lantana Airport to Melbourne to salvage equipment from an airplane which plaintiff's decedent had crashed earlier the same day. The third occupant, Thomas A. Stokes, Jr., was the only survivor of the crash with which we are here concerned. All three men were pilots and had undertaken the trip after weather reports indicated good visibility with scattered showers. A thick cloud was encountered near Fort Pierce and, after some discussion between Russell Rich and Thomas Stokes, the flight proceeded under the cloud rather than around it and over the ocean. They ran into heavy rain, lost visibility and crashed.

[snip]

It is urged on appeal that the amount of the verdict was less than what would otherwise have been awarded had counsel for the defendant not made improper and prejudicial arguments on non-existent issues. At the trial Thomas Stokes, the sole survivor, testified in part as follows:
"Q. Just before this from the time you took off at Valkaria had Mr. Schnedl said anything from the back seat?

"A. No.

"Q. Do you know whether he was asleep or awake?

"A. I couldn't say, I don't know."
Plaintiff's decedent was, of course, in the airplane although he apparently did not participate actively in the conference between Rich and Stokes as to what course should be followed with reference to the cloud formation. In addressing the jury, counsel for the defendant argued as follows:
"Did Mr. Rich fly immediately down? No, he didn't. He had a consultation with Mr. Stokes. Mr. Rich and Mr. Stokes discussed it. Mr. Rich asked the question, 'Should we fly out over the ocean around it or should we follow the Turnpike,' and Mr. Stokes replied that he felt that they should follow the Turnpike, and I think that his reasoning as stated was in the event of difficulty they could make a landing, whereas if they were over the ocean in a land plane of course they couldn't.

"Under the circumstances did Mr. Stokes raise any question about their ability to safely proceed under the cloud? 'No.'

"Did Mr. Schnedl raise any question about their ability to safely proceed under the cloud? 'No.' * * * (my emphasis)

"I don't know how anyone in this Courtroom whether he be expert or not, could reasonably pass judgment on a decision made by those three men at that time." (my emphasis)
The appellant's first point for reversal is that defense counsel, in so addressing the jury, in effect argued assumption of risk and contributory negligence which was highly improper and prejudicial to the plaintiff. The point is not well taken. The question of whether the defendant's decedent was negligent was as yet undetermined. The protested argument was predicated upon the "reasonable man" theory in a defensive explanation of an allegedly negligent act under a pleading of general denial of liability. The argument thus was within the orbit of the pleadings and the evidence. Moreover the jury found for the plaintiff on the issue of liability, indicating that any argument suggesting contributory negligence or assumption of risk was in fact rejected.

Counsel in addressing the jury should, of course, confine his arguments fairly within the range of the issues and the evidence with logical deductions therefrom; but he is accorded wide latitude. Alford v. Barnett National Bank of Jacksonville, 1939, 137 Fla. 564, 188 So. 322; Watkins v. Sims, 1921, 81 Fla. 730, 88 So. 764. There is nothing from which to conclude that the doctrine of comparative negligence entered into the verdict in the instant case. The jury was not charged with the doctrine, nor was it discussed at the trial; and any conclusion that the jury was influenced by nonevidentiary matters or inapplicable principles of law would be mere supposition and conjecture.
==============================
 
The appellant's first point for reversal is that defense counsel, in so addressing the jury, in effect argued assumption of risk and contributory negligence ... the jury found for the plaintiff on the issue of liability, indicating that any argument suggesting contributory negligence or assumption of risk was in fact rejected.
Interesting -- I may have been perpetrating a legal urban myth all these years. I gather the court ruled that the damages against the pilot would stand, and not be increased as requested by the appellant. But I've still got Newberger v. Pokrass to fall back on, and Newberger was not only asleep, but not even a pilot.
 
Interesting -- I may have been perpetrating a legal urban myth all these years. I gather the court ruled that the damages against the pilot would stand, and not be increased as requested by the appellant. But I've still got Newberger v. Pokrass to fall back on, and Newberger was not only asleep, but not even a pilot.
Yep, the court upheld the existing award, but the contributory negligence theory was not the only issue.

You may still not have been perpetuating a myth. That I can't find it doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't exist and the case I found might not be the one you knew of.

On the infamous Newberger case, you can, of course find most anything you want to in a jury verdict (especially when you didn't hear the testimony) and all the appellate decision is really saying is that there is no rule that a pasenger can never be held responsible for an accident and that a jury fact decision on that issue will stand.

Of course, I agree with you that "he shouldn't have fallen asleep" and "he should have stayed on the ground" are a bit ridiculous. But, reading the case, notice that it's the defendant that is appealing that the award was too much, that =more= should have been deducted for the passenger's "negligence."

It was not the plaintiff appealing that there should not have been any reduction for passenger "negligence".

The case sort of comes down to:

  • Fact finder is presented with the contributory negligence issue.
  • Fact finder decides based on the evidence that the pilot was 85% at fault, but that the passenger was 15% at fault.
  • Defendant appeals saying that the passenger should have been found 50% at fault as a matter of law (which would result in the pilot winning).
  • Plaintiff is happy with the award and defends it; Plaintiff does not try to argue that a sleeping passenger can never be held responsible.
  • Defendant loses.
 
Holy thread resurrection Batman!

My views on insurance are quite different than most. But putting that aside, I do have some modest training in Philosophy and the Human Condition.

I'd like to address the life decision that we make based on fear of reprisal. Surely there are societal norms that we follow to stay out of jail(most of us), and these are good rules of thumb. However, the OP brings to light an interesting nit of mine, and that is life decisions that are based on financial or civil legal fears.

Without going too deep and without getting into the legal morass, I can say that the fear of these financial/liability issues is almost always without merit or justification. Insurance companies play on fear, and fear of loss to sell us policies. Legal practitioners do the same in our society, and it's adding up to an unreasonable fear of living the kind of life we want to live.


Certainly there are corner cases where some jury returned an incomprehensible award, and it seems to happen more often in aviation litigation. Having said that, the likelyhood of being involved in one of those type of suits is vanishingly small, and having it go all the way to attachment of assets is microscopic. Living the type of life that you want to live and liability be damned(or properly insured) has a lot of merit for both sanity, and societal benefit.

I hope the OP went ahead and got the CFI and is happily instructing new aviators. Too often I run across fear of liability as a response to not doing what someone loves.
 
I guess what the elusive CFI-in-the-back-row case really tells me that if I'm getting in a plane with a low-time PP in marginal weather, I'm an idiot to get in the back seat and go to sleep, not because I could get sued, but because I could get killed. That last part alone is sufficient for me to be where I can see what's happening and offer appropriate comment (or more, if necessary) if I think the pilot is getting in over his head. After all, from a legal perspective, if we don't crash, I don't get sued, and if I don't get sued, I don't have to worry about 12 bozos off the street will think about what I did or did not do.
 
-Snip-

Without going too deep and without getting into the legal morass, I can say that the fear of these financial/liability issues is almost always without merit or justification.

-Snip-

Exactly, Doc. The reason I resurrected this was because a fairly well known CFI made a comment on a Podcast that I listen to that when she was in an airplane she was always PIC because the FAA/NTSB basically said she was anyway. I knew this thread existed and had the question. If I based all of my flying decisions, especially when I fly with someone else in their plane, on my personal liability exposure, I would not fly anything but solo. Maybe not even then.

I am glad I don't do that. :D
 
I'm going to start a poll about this. It is a pet peeve of mine when I hear of people not living life the way they want to because of tort lawyers. Kind of like I feel about this country giving up its freedoms because of fear of terrorism.
 
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I'm going to start a poll about this. It is a pet peeve of mine when I here of people not living life the way they want to because of tort lawyers. Kind of like I feel about this country giving up its freedoms because of fear of terrorism.
...why that's exactly what it is. Financial terrorism!
 
It is a pet peeve of mine when I here of people not living life the way they want to because of tort lawyers. Kind of like I feel about this country giving up its freedoms because of fear of terrorism.

It's a totally different experience when it happens to you, and I speak from experience. Too many lawyers looking for any excuse to bilk and insurance company or individual over some frivolous lawsuit because they know the odds are in their favor to get something monetary out of it. We desperately need a "loser pays" system in this country to put an end to this, but even more so we need the various state Bar systems to enforce ethics rather than turn a blind eye. The legal community needs to be weeded out, it's the bad lawyers that bring down the entire profession.
 
I've already got a plan. If some lawyer is able to bleed me dry due to our deplorable tort law system, I will dust off my CFIG and go out to Arizona or Hawaii, give glider rides and live in a trailer.

I would not be rich, but I would still be happy.
 
It's a totally different experience when it happens to you, and I speak from experience.
Me, too.
...or individual over some frivolous lawsuit because they know the odds are in their favor to get something monetary out of it.
BTDT, and the jury saw through it, but I went through three years of legal proceedings, depositions and a trial to get to the end of it.
We desperately need a "loser pays" system in this country to put an end to this,
Amen.
 
How olde ye be, laddie?

I've already got a plan. If some lawyer is able to bleed me dry due to our deplorable tort law system, I will dust off my CFIG and go out to Arizona or Hawaii, give glider rides and live in a trailer.

I would not be rich, but I would still be happy.
 
How olde ye be, laddie?

Rather irrelevant. However, this was not something I came up with yesterday. If you and I look at things differently, that's what makes the world go round.
 
Rather irrelevant. However, this was not something I came up with yesterday. If you and I look at things differently, that's what makes the world go round.

It's not irrelevant at all. Much of your logic (as conveyed in your posts) is based on perecieved risk-reward and happiness. When you have little to lose and lots of time to earn it back if it's lost, your opinion will likely to be different than if your situation is reversed.

I haven't given up doing what I want to do, I have instead elected to use the available resources to protect myself to the extent possible. 40 years ago, when I was driving my net worth, it wouldn't have mattered.
 
Rather irrelevant. However, this was not something I came up with yesterday. If you and I look at things differently, that's what makes the world go round.
I agree. If you look at the "Aviation Life" thread we are not split down age or net worth lines as much as that would be logical. A lot of it has do do with the individual's personality.
 
It's not irrelevant at all. Much of your logic (as conveyed in your posts) is based on perecieved risk-reward and happiness. When you have little to lose and lots of time to earn it back if it's lost, your opinion will likely to be different than if your situation is reversed.

I haven't given up doing what I want to do, I have instead elected to use the available resources to protect myself to the extent possible. 40 years ago, when I was driving my net worth, it wouldn't have mattered.

Well Wayne, I'm glad you have figured out how to take it with you. Not to burst your bubble on my logic, but I'm 60 and have a net worth above a million bucks.

You listed on my non-poll poll in Flight Following (post #13) what you won't do because of liability concerns. Your list certainly implied you have given up doing some things you might want to do because of worry about the tort lawyers. I'll just say again, we look at things differently, laddie.
 
Not to burst your bubble on my logic, but I'm 60 and have a net worth above a million bucks.

Hey Lance, I know someone with some land in Florida you should invest in:rofl:.

Seriously, I understand where you're coming from. I think what Wayne is missing is that there are at least two factors involved and outliers in the demographics for each one. Youngsters commonly hold optimistic perceptions of their future with less regard for risk and it's common for us oldsters (the new "middle age") to feel the need to hold on to whatever standard of living we've achieved. But just because you've managed to meet or exceed your younger self's lifestyle expectations doesn't necessarily mean that maintaing same is the most important thing in your remaining life.
 
All I mean is I'm going to do what I can to not let the tort lawyers or the terrorists win. If we change our way of life because of them, they have won. Either group could do significant damage to me. But I am not going to even consider that threat in making decisions on how I live.

The thread (remember that) is/was about CFI and liability. I instructed in gliders at glider clubs (FOR FREE) both before and after "money." The liability issue never influenced my activities in this regard. This is where Wayne and I are different. I see his point; he does not see mine.
 
Holy thread resurrection Batman!

My views on insurance are quite different than most. But putting that aside, I do have some modest training in Philosophy and the Human Condition.

I'd like to address the life decision that we make based on fear of reprisal. Surely there are societal norms that we follow to stay out of jail(most of us), and these are good rules of thumb. However, the OP brings to light an interesting nit of mine, and that is life decisions that are based on financial or civil legal fears.

Without going too deep and without getting into the legal morass, I can say that the fear of these financial/liability issues is almost always without merit or justification. Insurance companies play on fear, and fear of loss to sell us policies. Legal practitioners do the same in our society, and it's adding up to an unreasonable fear of living the kind of life we want to live.


Certainly there are corner cases where some jury returned an incomprehensible award, and it seems to happen more often in aviation litigation. Having said that, the likelyhood of being involved in one of those type of suits is vanishingly small, and having it go all the way to attachment of assets is microscopic. Living the type of life that you want to live and liability be damned(or properly insured) has a lot of merit for both sanity, and societal benefit.

I hope the OP went ahead and got the CFI and is happily instructing new aviators. Too often I run across fear of liability as a response to not doing what someone loves.
I hope so also.

I agree with almost everything you said. It's amazing how hard you have to look to find =any= real cases involving CFI liability. Regarding insurance, if you look at the premiums for liability in the typical CFI-policy, you'll notice that the high cost is for damage to the aircraft ("hull" - like collision coverage in an auto policy) and the liability limits are relatively cheap.
 
I'm going to start a poll about this. It is a pet peeve of mine when I hear of people not living life the way they want to because of tort lawyers. Kind of like I feel about this country giving up its freedoms because of fear of terrorism.
Where's the poll so I can agree with you?
 
The reason I resurrected this was because a fairly well known CFI made a comment on a Podcast that I listen to that when she was in an airplane she was always PIC because the FAA/NTSB basically said she was anyway.
Getting back to this. I hope that the people who listen to this podcast realize that this is just her opinion, and IMHO an overly paranoid one.

I pointed out a number of scenarios in chat where this insistance on being PIC would not work or at least would not work well. What if both pilots are CFIs? What if the CFI is not current as far as landings go or is otherwise unable to act as PIC? What if the CFI is not going to do any instruction but is just going for a joyride in a type of airplane he or she has never laid eyes on before?
 
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