CFI rates

SkyHog said:
To me, a CFI's time is worth approximately $20/hr tops for a really experienced CFI. Unfortunately, no CFI makes that, and they usually charge in the $40/hr range.
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That's a load of crap Nick and you should know it. Name one CFI who, strictly instructing, is able to actually make $83k/year, experienced or newbie. Most of the ones I know can only do instruction on the side because they can't earn enough money instructing.

If you don't think an instructor is worth more than $20/hr tops, go ahead and pay that and come back to us with what you get. Make sure to explain to the guy that you don't think his time is worth any more than $20/hr for the above reasons.
 
I actually somewhat agree with Nick on this. It was way more difficult to get my CFI than my bachelors....oh wait...I don't even have a bachelors. Guess the CFI was easy. Getting the CFI really wasn't that difficult. Costly, sure, but difficult? Not even close to whats required to get a BSE, MBA, or any other number of graduate acronyms. Since all the FAA requires is PTS requirement, it's really not rocket science, and yeah, it rally doesn't take a lot of smarts to be a CFI. Hell, I'm a college dropout, and I am one.

Based on a few things I've seen CFI's on here argue, I wouldn't pay 'em $5/hr, let alone, $20, $40, or $60.
 
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Ted DuPuis said:
That's a load of crap Nick and you should know it. Name one CFI who, strictly instructing, is able to actually make $83k/year, experienced or newbie. Most of the ones I know can only do instruction on the side because they can't earn enough money instructing.

If you don't think an instructor is worth more than $20/hr tops, go ahead and pay that and come back to us with what you get. Make sure to explain to the guy that you don't think his time is worth any more than $20/hr for the above reasons.
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In all fairness, Ted, I did explain that I don't think many if any CFIs are working 40 hour weeks, so they're not really making that $83,000+ figure....

But, it would be nice if my fiancee could go part time at her call center job and they would increase her pay so that she didn't lose money by doing so. In any other profession, it just doesn't work that way.

$40 an hour is insanely high. High level administrators in many jobs don't even make that.
 
EdFred said:
I actually somewhat agree with Nick on this. It was way more difficult to get my CFI than my bachelors....oh wait...I don't even have a bachelors. Guess the CFI was easy. Getting the CFI really wasn't that difficult. Costly, sure, but difficult? Not even close to whats required to get a BSE, MBA, or any other number of graduate acronyms. Since all the FAA requires is PTS requirement, it's really not rocket science, and yeah, it rally doesn't take a lot of smarts to be a CFI. Hell, I'm a college dropout, and I am one.

Based on a few things I've seen CFI's on here argue, I wouldn't pay 'em $5/hr, let alone, $20, $40, or $60.
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I'm not gonna go so far as to say that CFIs are stupid, or that the CFI is an easy ticket to get, Ed, that's a bit extreme. But I'm sure that a medical phlebotomy certificate is a lot more difficult to get, and guess how much they make....it ain't $40 an hour.

You could call it rating envy, but I'm more inclined to call it "Common Sensism." Everything's more expensive in aviation, including CFIs.
 
SkyHog said:
$40 an hour is insanely high. High level administrators in many jobs don't even make that.
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Says who?

Last I checked, supply intersects demand and determines price.

  • Dumb people with minimal skills and no proven record of success = low demand
  • Smart, trained people with track record = high demand.
 
SkyHog said:
$40 an hour is insanely high. High level administrators in many jobs don't even make that.
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Hate to burst your bubble there, but before I retired from the airline I was making $202.00/hour for lines constructed for an average of 75 to 80 hours per month (thirteen "bid" periods per year). Heck, for certain assignments that number would be multiplied by 1.5 to 2.0.

My attorney charges $250/per hour for his services. The guy that works on my boat charges $80/per hour (and he's a lowly diesel mechanic).
 
Rotor&Wing said:
Hate to burst your bubble there, but before I retired from the airline I was making $202.00/hour for lines constructed for an average of 75 to 80 hours per month (thirteen "bid" periods per year). Heck, for certain assignments that number would be multiplied by 1.5 to 2.0.

My attorney charges $250/per hour for his services. The guy that works on my boat charges $80/per hour (and he's a lowly diesel mechanic).
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Yep. In the real world of professional consulting >$1k/day plus expenses is the norm.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
s. The guy that works on my boat charges $80/per hour (and he's a lowly diesel mechanic).
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That's shop rate to cover his overhead, not what he makes. Same with your attorney, he has office help and other expenses to cover. Not very many CFI's have overhead expenses, insurance and maybe a few supplies.
 
Dean said:
That's shop rate to cover his overhead, not what he makes. Same with your attorney, he has office help and other expenses to cover. Not very many CFI's have overhead expenses, insurance and maybe a few supplies.
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My boat mechanic works for himself out of a trailer and motorhome, travels to marinas for service. Not much overhead.

My attorney works for himself and has his office in his home, so no staff and again, low overhead.
 
SkyHog said:
But, it would be nice if my fiancee could go part time at her call center job and they would increase her pay so that she didn't lose money by doing so. In any other profession, it just doesn't work that way.
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Getting your CFI is a lot more like getting a college degree than what it takes to work in a call center (nothing against your fiancee). To go through and get your private, instrument, commercial, CFI, and furthermore be any good at what you're doing, takes a tremendous investment in time and money. Being able to work at a call center does not.

Being a CFI doesn't require the same amount of training as being a doctor or lawyer, but you are paying someone for their experience and knowledge on a one-on-one basis devoting all of their time to you. Look for any field where that's what you're actually getting and I think you'll struggle to find one where people are charging that little, especially when you get into year of experience.

Let's say you've got a 45 year old doctor, lawyer, and flight instructor, all with distinguished careers in their relative professions. You might expect to pay $50/hr for the flight instructor, and at least 4x that for the doctor or lawyer. In all cases, you're trusting that person's experience to keep you safe and out of trouble, and you're paying for the years that person has spent learning all the particulars of his or her profession.

I know you tend to take the side of things aren't worth what people pay for them, and believe me I agree with that completely for a lot of things. One thing I think that people have stopped valuing sufficiently, though, is experience. That's been replaced with:

*insert Indian accent*
"Thank you for calling Hewlett Packard customer service, my name is John."
 
Rotor&Wing said:
My boat mechanic works for himself out of a trailer and motorhome, travels to marinas for service. Not much overhead.

My attorney works for himself and has his office in his home, so no staff and again, low overhead.
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Then you are either getting taken to the cleaners or you have more dollars than sense. I have some ocean view property in SW Missouri for sale, are you interested?
 
dmccormack said:
Hmmm... seems to fit a pattern of underachieving so that no one can hold you accountable to any expectation.

:yesnod:
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And yet, I continually have to give chemistry lessons to process engineers who have multiple degrees. Go figure.

Sorta like the guy in the armed forces who sat behind a desk for his career and never saw any action on the battlefield.
 
Realistically you're worth what someone is willing to pay you. I think around here CFIs get in the $40-$50/hour range although I'm not positive. But that's how much the customer pays the CFI. If the CFI is free-lance they need to cover their own FICA, and other benefits that they might get as an employee. If they are an employee they only see a fraction of that $40-$50/hr.
 
A good friend is a patent attorney. His office is in the room that was once the coal bin of his house. He heads a virtual firm that works for some of the biggest names in computers, electronics and telecom. The firm bills mega-bucks of fee work each year and is highly-regarded in their industry. Their overhead is their laptops and state bar association dues.

Don't waste any time feeling sorry for them.
 
wabower said:
Your rate is a perfect example of a screwed-up system. You and some of the other top hands are working for roughly the same rate charged by the the FBO for their cadre of CDN's (clueless-doofus-newbies).
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I'm not sure I follow your logic. My $60/hr rate is more like double what the local FBO charges ($35/hr).
 
SkyHog said:
Name me one other profession where you can get a certificate (not a degree), and immediately start making $40/hr.
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There's a very big difference between charging $40/hr and making $40/hr. After you pay off the full-rate FICA, insurance (professional as well as medical/dental), overhead, tools of the trade, etc (which employers normally pay) the actual wage rate is about half that. A better comparison would be what you pay for golf or tennis lessons. Even the local dog trainer gets $55/hr for one-on-one training. Also, keep in mind that while an FBO may charge $35/hr, the instructor gets only about half that, while the FBO covers insurance, employer's FICA, office expenses, etc.
 
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Did I misunderstand that your take is $40 from the PIC group?

Ron Levy said:
I'm not sure I follow your logic. My $60/hr rate is more like double what the local FBO charges ($35/hr).
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Well then, Nick is right. You're obviously waaaaay overpaid. Class action to follow.:rofl:

Ron Levy said:
I guess you did. PIC charges clients $600/day for most aircraft, and $750/day for cabin-class and other specialty aircraft.
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I've never been compared to General Marshall before. But I thank you for the compliment.
 
SkyHog said:
In all fairness, Ted, I did explain that I don't think many if any CFIs are working 40 hour weeks, so they're not really making that $83,000+ figure....

But, it would be nice if my fiancee could go part time at her call center job and they would increase her pay so that she didn't lose money by doing so. In any other profession, it just doesn't work that way.

$40 an hour is insanely high. High level administrators in many jobs don't even make that.
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Are they paying your financee only for the hours she is on the telephone at the call center? Or, do they also pay her for the time between calls when she is available to work?

I notice at the FBO that instructors are at work and available whether they are on Hobbs time or not. Is it fair?
 
AuntPeggy said:
Are they paying your financee only for the hours she is on the telephone at the call center? Or, do they also pay her for the time between calls when she is available to work?

I notice at the FBO that instructors are at work and available whether they are on Hobbs time or not. Is it fair?
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A couple of days of bad weather = $40/hr (less FBO take) * 0hrs = $000. Not a great way to get rich quick.

It is what it is. Fair or not? Not for me to say. I suppose if it were unfair people wouldn't do it. But they ain't buyin' Rolls on their pay, that's for sure.
 
I am a CFII just relocated to San Antonio, Tx from Pennsyvania. CFI rates are much different then Pennsyvania here.
Back in Pa I would charge $40 to $50 and BFR $65,IPC $75
And Special rates depending on how many time a year.
 
Jaime P said:
I am a CFII just relocated to San Antonio, Tx from Pennsyvania. CFI rates are much different then Pennsyvania here.
Back in Pa I would charge $40 to $50 and BFR $65,IPC $75
And Special rates depending on how many time a year.
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What is your time now worth for those items?
 
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