CFI Problem

There but for the grace of God, and all that.

Any one of us can dent an airplane.

Very few of us start conversations with 40 hour pilots by telling them to quit. That's my beef here.

Glad the OP is going to get off the Internet and go have an adult discussion with the person they hired to teach them how to survive aloft. Good stuff.

These threads always lead to just talking to the other adult you're having unnecessary drama with. Even mine.

(That instructor and I had drinks at OSH together this year and we're cool. I don't really want to hire him again, but he's fine with that and no hard feelings on either side. Then later I had drinks with another instructor who I would hire again. And we made fun of someone who was not an instructor but was a lot more drunk than all three of us combined! Then I woke up another instructor trying to be quiet wandering to my bed. LOL.)

Come to OSH, OP.

Place is swimming with instructors. ;)
 
Henning said:
...because in aviation, when we **** up, we often have only seconds to save ourselves.
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The vast VAST majority of accidents and incidents in aviation are the result of a series of decisions over a period of time ranging from minutes to hours providing multiple opportunities for correction and avoidance.

Some pilots refuse to acknowledge poor judgement and continue on hoping their skill will save them. This is apparently true in regards to both aviating as well as the giving of armchair psychological advice.
 
OP, you have gotten some very good advice in this thread, including Hennings advice to check yourself. I really wish people would do the same thing before they press "post". I'll say this much, I would climb in an airplane with Henning without thought, there are a couple of others in this thread whose attitudes would give me pause. OP, I heard a very corny saying yesterday, but it is true. The sky has no patience. You cannot panic and you must be in control, both physically and mentally of your airplane. A reality check to make sure you are capable of this is not at all a bad thing. Lastly, a high post count on an Internet message board doesn't say anything to the quality of advice given, it's worth exactly what you paid for it. Good luck OP.
 
Dr. O said:
Some serious psychopathology on display in this thread .:rolleyes2:
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For a while there, I thought someone might need to break out the straightjackets. ;)
 
Marauder said:
For a while there, I thought someone might need to break out the straightjackets. ;)
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Sadly its a sign of our "modern" times.

This isn't little league where there are no longer any losers and everyone get chance to bat, this is the real world and we are NOT all created equal. Aviation is something that not everyone can/should do, sorry.
 
wby0nder said:
The vast VAST majority of accidents and incidents in aviation are the result of a series of decisions over a period of time ranging from minutes to hours providing multiple opportunities for correction and avoidance.
Click to expand...
Thread hijack. I'd suggest a slight rewording - I'd substitute "cluster" for "series" only to suggest that many factors are often involved in an accident, as you said in your preamble - but I don't agree that there is an accident chain in the sense that it is an A-B-C-D issue. I think it can be an A 1 z bb B type thing where many factors apply and even factors that aren't directly traceable can be causative. Fix one or more of them and the alleged accident chain, which is mostly a device or construct to get directly to someone who can be blamed, is only one way of sorting or ordering all the factors that pertain to the event and is not the only or necessarily the best way to address preventing repetition.
 
I had an instructor that did similar things.... He is my best friend and has been for sometime.

Aviate, Navigate, Communicate, in that order. I tend to fly with my right hand on the throttle because of Mr. cFIs shanagans. I finally told him if he touched my airplane again he would never step foot in one with me.

On my night cross country we were flying along when all the sudden I ballooned up about 200 ft. simultaneously the plane slowed by ~10kn. The instructor said nothing. I inspect everything and notice somehow 10degrees of flaps had been added. When asked, the cfi said that he hadn't done it on purpose. He still claims this. I believe otherwise.
 
Thanks Mike. Some of the posts here are an eye opener. I love it.

I am a person who plans a lot and live by the check lists and have lot of patience and focus. What bugs me out is when some one keeps yapping (read yelling)..i guess i need to work staying calm before the storm...

Again thanks to everyone (also Hennings)...i will work hard on the areas i am weak.

mikeinbama said:
OP, you have gotten some very good advice in this thread, including Hennings advice to check yourself. I really wish people would do the same thing before they press "post". I'll say this much, I would climb in an airplane with Henning without thought, there are a couple of others in this thread whose attitudes would give me pause. OP, I heard a very corny saying yesterday, but it is true. The sky has no patience. You cannot panic and you must be in control, both physically and mentally of your airplane. A reality check to make sure you are capable of this is not at all a bad thing. Lastly, a high post count on an Internet message board doesn't say anything to the quality of advice given, it's worth exactly what you paid for it. Good luck OP.
Click to expand...
 
I just spoke to my instructor and he apologized for his behavior. He did admit that he was out of line (because of stress / external pressures and stuff) and agreed that yelling and being disrespectful was not his intentions. He promised to continue pushing me to limits though (which is a good thing) :)

I will give me another chance.
 
newbiepilot said:
I just spoke to my instructor and he apologized for his behavior. He did admit that he was out of line (because of stress / external pressures and stuff) and agreed that yelling and being disrespectful was not his intentions. He promised to continue pushing me to limits though (which is a good thing) :)

I will give me another chance.
Click to expand...

Instructors are people too. Good job, now go fly something.
 
It's not uncommon to find someone well-versed in a subject who is simply a bad teacher. Sounds like your instructor is one of those.

It's certainly possible to teach flying without being an *******, so please look for another instructor.
 
newbiepilot said:
I just spoke to my instructor and he apologized for his behavior. He did admit that he was out of line (because of stress / external pressures and stuff) and agreed that yelling and being disrespectful was not his intentions. He promised to continue pushing me to limits though (which is a good thing) :)

I will give me another chance.
Click to expand...

Communication goes a long way. Instead of just running off to another instructor or quit flying like others have said, sometimes you gotta man up and have a face to face. You need to know his expectations and he needs to know yours. Now if it happens again, then you move on.
 
newbiepilot said:
I just spoke to my instructor and he apologized for his behavior. He did admit that he was out of line (because of stress / external pressures and stuff) and agreed that yelling and being disrespectful was not his intentions. He promised to continue pushing me to limits though (which is a good thing) :)



I will give me another chance.
Click to expand...


There ya go. Joke with him that you fly for fun, not for no fun, next time you see him. ;)

Expanding limits is good. Let us know how it's going.
 
wby0nder said:
The vast VAST majority of accidents and incidents in aviation are the result of a series of decisions over a period of time ranging from minutes to hours providing multiple opportunities for correction and avoidance.

Some pilots refuse to acknowledge poor judgement and continue on hoping their skill will save them. This is apparently true in regards to both aviating as well as the giving of armchair psychological advice.
Click to expand...

I don't hope for skill to save me, I rely solely on karma to cover my bad judgement. 49 years of a no fear life and a lot of questionable judgement which lead to crash and burn situations. When I was 12 the bets were I wouldn't survive to 18, never really mellowed my actions either. It seems to work really well. Pretty much I rely on my brain, and in every brain lives God. Show God a good time, put in a good effort at producing some high quality thoughts and experiences, and God keeps you around because not only are you doing your job well, you're a good time. Many times in my life I have thought and heard, "How is it that I am standing here unscratched?" My answer has always been, "Because God likes to keep me around for laughs, I'm a fun guy."

When you understand your purpose in the universe and your link to the singularity, and then follow your conscience in everything you do, the skill and the thought will be there when you need it, and a dose of luck. If not, no biggie, you win the grand prize.

The big thing though is the speed of thought you get to act with in an emergency, it's amazing to experience.
 
I agree with the find another instructor idea and sort out what's you and what's the instructor. From there you need to evaluate your assertiveness and patience level under stress. Flying isn't hard, but it isn't easy either. It takes commitment.
 
Wow. Pretty heavy duty Henning. Will add that to my pre-take off checklist :wink2:



Henning said:
I don't hope for skill to save me, I rely solely on karma to cover my bad judgement. 49 years of a no fear life and a lot of questionable judgement which lead to crash and burn situations. When I was 12 the bets were I wouldn't survive to 18, never really mellowed my actions either. It seems to work really well. Pretty much I rely on my brain, and in every brain lives God. Show God a good time, put in a good effort at producing some high quality thoughts and experiences, and God keeps you around because not only are you doing your job well, you're a good time. Many times in my life I have thought and heard, "How is it that I am standing here unscratched?" My answer has always been, "Because God likes to keep me around for laughs, I'm a fun guy."

When you understand your purpose in the universe and your link to the singularity, and then follow your conscience in everything you do, the skill and the thought will be there when you need it, and a dose of luck. If not, no biggie, you win the grand prize.

The big thing though is the speed of thought you get to act with in an emergency, it's amazing to experience.
Click to expand...
 
newbiepilot said:
I just spoke to my instructor and he apologized for his behavior. He did admit that he was out of line (because of stress / external pressures and stuff) and agreed that yelling and being disrespectful was not his intentions. He promised to continue pushing me to limits though (which is a good thing) :)

I will give me another chance.
Click to expand...

My contribution to the discussion so far is to keep in mind the that you are PILOT IN COMMAND (PIC) and that if any of your passengers, including rated pilots, start doing something that makes you nervous or uncomfortable, it's up to you to say something to correct it. Firm and gentle, "Please refrain from doing that" to start, and up the intensity as needed.

What might be good practice for you and your personality is to do a thorough pre-flight briefing with you running the brief BEFORE you start the engine. It doesn't have to be super long (3 minutes? 5?), but covers all of the major bullet points of
  • review of route and fuel planning
  • what tasks will be done on the flight
  • review of safety procedures
  • who does what,
  • what is permitted,
  • what isn't permitted (including unasked for fiddling of comms and navs)
  • etc.

This will make it real clear about what is expected of each of you. And might help improve your assertiveness.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Only if we all could be so gifted.........:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

We are, we are all born with the same gift, it's just a matter of what we do with it. Do we put the gift on a shelf and look at it, or more common ignore it, or do we use our gift and try to wear it out? That is a matter of Freewill.
 
newbiepilot said:
Hi Guys,

I am a student pilot with around 40hrs and have soloed.
My CFI, is most of the time very annoying and i am OK with that. He is pushing me all the time and it helps me become a better pilot. So far so good.

I am very meek by nature and I don't confront and agree to everything.

Yesterday, I had my first cross country with him. I *hated* the entire experience. He was very annoying, ****ed and disrespectful. He kept asking me where we are and then while i was looking at the map he pulled the throttle back and then 2 minutes later he was asking me why we descending and thing like that. I know he want me to multi-task but then i started panicking. He asked me to do all radios and i had my share of hiccups. He was very ****ed off with that. He was asking me why I can't remember simple calls. Pretty much in the entire flight he was complaining about something or other. He forcibly took controls (we were safe and no emergency) without positive exchange of controls. Things like that. You get the picture.

After, 5 hour of stressful flight, yesterday for the first time i was thinking what the hell i am doing blowing my money on something I am not enjoying.

I am a Healthcare professional and have a very busy schedule. But I spend time reading and learning. I think we have a problem with expectations here. All other of his students are getting trained to become pilots.

I am not sure what to do. I have been with him for 4 months. I had bad days with him before but always shrugged it off with positive mental attitude but can't get rid of what happened in my first cross country.

Can you guys please help me with your thoughts? Am I thinking this too much? Is this normal?

Thanks in advance
- newbie
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Having a CFI doesn't mean you know S about teaching. I have ran into some arrogant little punks with a pair of gold rimed Raybans and a new Breitling financed at 21%. They watched Full Metal Jacket too many times and have molded their teaching style after R. Lee Ermey.

Problem is they forget the golden rule, YOU are paying them.

I would try and find an experienced instructor that can hold you to the highest standards, teach you a ton, while making it a good experience. This is too expensive to be miserable.
 
My working assumption is that there is no God and there is no karma.

Can't say for certain, but my flying decisions do not include either of the above in my calculations.

And when I was a CFI I tried to make sure my teaching was consistent with FAA publications. Since none referenced God or karma, neither did I.

And it has served me well - still alive and uninjured af the tail end of a long career.

But if God or karma as your copilot floats your boat, have at it! But to use either as a substitute for skill and judgment would be a mistake, IMHO.
 
FastEddieB said:
My working assumption is that there is no God and there is no karma.

Can't say for certain, but my flying decisions do not include either of the above in my calculations.

And when I was a CFI I tried to make sure my teaching was consistent with FAA publications. Since none referenced God or karma, neither did I.

And it has served me well - still alive and uninjured af the tail end of a long career.

But if God or karma as your copilot floats your boat, have at it! But to use either as a substitute for skill and judgment would be a mistake, IMHO.
Click to expand...


Your working assumption is why the world has the problems it does. It is incorrect, but irrelevant as long as you follow your conscience anyway. God doesn't care if you believe in him or not as long as you produce good thought and energy, the only things that you produce.

When 100 years and billions of dollars of experiments in all fields of science always have a hole in them that when you fill leads to an intelligence behind existence, and not only that, we have done enough experiments that we can actually understand the nature of God if we cared to look. Science has had this multi century grudge match with Religion though, so they willfully blind themselves in the continued attempt to disprove God. It's sad really, we have so much wasted potential.
 
Henning said:
I don't hope for skill to save me, I rely solely on karma to cover my bad judgement. 49 years of a no fear life and a lot of questionable judgement which lead to crash and burn situations. When I was 12 the bets were I wouldn't survive to 18, never really mellowed my actions either. It seems to work really well. Pretty much I rely on my brain, and in every brain lives God. Show God a good time, put in a good effort at producing some high quality thoughts and experiences, and God keeps you around because not only are you doing your job well, you're a good time. Many times in my life I have thought and heard, "How is it that I am standing here unscratched?" My answer has always been, "Because God likes to keep me around for laughs, I'm a fun guy."

When you understand your purpose in the universe and your link to the singularity, and then follow your conscience in everything you do, the skill and the thought will be there when you need it, and a dose of luck. If not, no biggie, you win the grand prize.
Click to expand...

Honestly, this scares me more than anything else in this thread does.
 
Henning said:
Your working assumption is why the world has the problems it does. It is incorrect,
Click to expand...

Prove it.

When 100 years and billions of dollars of experiments in all fields of science always have a hole in them that when you fill leads to an intelligence behind existence, and not only that, we have done enough experiments that we can actually understand the nature of God if we cared to look. Science has had this multi century grudge match with Religion though, so they willfully blind themselves in the continued attempt to disprove God. It's sad really, we have so much wasted potential.
Click to expand...

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
 
I've been mentally working with a propsed thread.

Working title: "Pretentious, profound...or just idiotic?".

Maybe to include a survey.

But it's interesting how a discussion about CFI/student interaction can get derailed into a discussion of karma and what God wants.

Bright side? No mention of usery or hydrogen.

Yet. :mad2:
 
RotorAndWing said:
It's all psychobabble anyway. :rolleyes2:
Click to expand...

Join the the singularity, release your death grip on this meaningless life, embrace the universe and let the aircraft fly hands off no autopilot. If you emerge from the crash unscathed, then God finds you almost as entertaining as Henning. If he doesn't you go back to working for the FAA in the far southern office, so to speak.
 
God gets what god wants. And god wants Henning to warn you you better be good or god will smote you upon the ground.
 
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