CFI or CFII during retirement

Fallsrider

Line Up and Wait
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Fallsrider
I have a goal of obtaining my PPL and possibly IR prior to reaching full retirement age in 12 years (currently 67 years old for folks born when I was) or at the worst, pursuing these immediately after retirement.

I've been thinking that since I at least don't mind teaching, and may even enjoy it dependent upon the subject material, it might be worth pursuing my commercial and CFI ratings and instruct for at least some part-time income, maybe more, after retirement. It is my understanding there is no age-limit on instructing is there? Obviously, I would have to have the health (healthy right now) to maintain a 3rd class medical. And there's the 250 hours needed for the commercial, so it wouldn't happen very quickly.

If the economy and training demand stays decently strong, do you all think this might be a goal worth pursuing during retirement? I have flown enough in Cessnas to know I enjoy flying, and at least some income doing something enjoyable may help fund a little extra personal flying. I'm just pondering these thoughts.
 
I at least don't mind teaching, and may even enjoy it dependent upon the student,

FTFY.

Some are great. Some are a PITA. Some are great in spite of being a PITA. And some leave you wondering why you bother. (Warning, Will Robinson, Warning: I am not a FAA certificated instructor, just an engineering instructor that just entered final grades and am getting all the "That D- really hurts my GPA, can't you just give me a C?" requests.)
 
Well, yes and no. More for you to ponder than answers to your questions.

There is no age limit and BasicMed will be enough for just about everything. Getting an association with a flight school can be easy or difficult depending primarily on geography Doing it independently requires some basic marketing skills and at least the perception you have something to offer which makes you stand out.

Then there's retirement itself. I became a CFI when I was still working full time. One thought was that I'd teach a lot more when I retired. I am, but, as it turns out, I've become very jealous of my leisure time. That translates to avoiding the time commitment for certificate/rating training and focusing on recurrent and transition training. I could do more, even teach full time if I wanted to, but that's a function of the things I mentioned in the other paragraph. The extra income is nice, but unnecessary.

It works well for me, although at times I'm a bit busier than I want to be. What it means for you is more about you.
 
I have a goal of obtaining my PPL and possibly IR prior to reaching full retirement age in 12 years (currently 67 years old for folks born when I was) or at the worst, pursuing these immediately after retirement.

I've been thinking that since I at least don't mind teaching, and may even enjoy it dependent upon the subject material, it might be worth pursuing my commercial and CFI ratings and instruct for at least some part-time income, maybe more, after retirement. It is my understanding there is no age-limit on instructing is there? Obviously, I would have to have the health (healthy right now) to maintain a 3rd class medical. And there's the 250 hours needed for the commercial, so it wouldn't happen very quickly.

If the economy and training demand stays decently strong, do you all think this might be a goal worth pursuing during retirement? I have flown enough in Cessnas to know I enjoy flying, and at least some income doing something enjoyable may help fund a little extra personal flying. I'm just pondering these thoughts.

Go for it. No age limit. There is a shortage of Instructors and one who is old enough to not be looking to move on to the airlines and is not relying on CFI income to make a living is a welcome thing
 
Go for it. No age limit. There is a shortage of Instructors and one who is old enough to not be looking to move on to the airlines and is not relying on CFI income to make a living is a welcome thing
I had that thought about no desire to move up. And I have a Class Charlie airport 20 minutes away, and a smaller county airport with a flight school 40 minutes away. Seems like there could be some good opportunity.
 
....It works well for me, although at times I'm a bit busier than I want to be. What it means for you is more about you.
Makes sense. Of course, I don't know yet how retirement will suit me. I think I will really enjoy it, and I could see where you start getting jealous for your free time.
 
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This is something I am starting to work on... I am going to have to retire in a few years, however, I don't think I am going to be able to sit around.... I am looking at this as a.) an accomplishment, b.) helping people succeed, c.) something to keep me busy d.) pick up a few scheckles to support my 100LL habit...
 
Make sense. Of course, I don't know yet how retirement will suit me. I think I will really enjoy it, and I could see where you start getting jealous for your free time.
I love my 90% retirement. People who need things to do will find plenty of things to do.
 
This is something I am starting to work on... I am going to have to retire in a few years, however, I don't think I am going to be able to sit around.... I am looking at this as a.) an accomplishment, b.) helping people succeed, c.) something to keep me busy d.) pick up a few scheckles to support my 100LL habit...
That is about where I am at. I have a few more years to work and decided to work on the commercial as mostly to prove to myself I could still do it. I was on the fence about the CFI. After studying and passing the commercial written, I realized how rusty I got on procedures. I decided to go on with the CFI as soon as I finish the commercial. I don’t know how much I will use it - but I could also use a few $$ to support retirement flying.
 
I have a goal of obtaining my PPL and possibly IR prior to reaching full retirement age in 12 years (currently 67 years old for folks born when I was) or at the worst, pursuing these immediately after retirement.

I've been thinking that since I at least don't mind teaching, and may even enjoy it dependent upon the subject material, it might be worth pursuing my commercial and CFI ratings and instruct for at least some part-time income, maybe more, after retirement. It is my understanding there is no age-limit on instructing is there? Obviously, I would have to have the health (healthy right now) to maintain a 3rd class medical. And there's the 250 hours needed for the commercial, so it wouldn't happen very quickly.

If the economy and training demand stays decently strong, do you all think this might be a goal worth pursuing during retirement? I have flown enough in Cessnas to know I enjoy flying, and at least some income doing something enjoyable may help fund a little extra personal flying. I'm just pondering these thoughts.

If you fly 100 hours a year for the next 12 years, other wise you’re an old guy with no experience teaching what others have told you.
 
I have flown enough in Cessnas to know I enjoy flying, and at least some income doing something enjoyable may help fund a little extra personal flying. I'm just pondering these thoughts.

You haven't even started your PPL yet? Seems premature to try to decide whether to get your CFI.
 
You haven't even started your PPL yet? Seems premature to try to decide whether to get your CFI.

Agreed.

Fallsrider: The road ahead is a long one. Achieving your private pilot certificate would be the logical first step; I humbly recommend you assess again after that, and keep doing so upon earning each subsequent certificate or rating along the way.

What you're doing here is forming a battle plan which you expect will take you from the opening salvo to the conclusion of the war. You really just need to focus on storming the beach for now.

Hopefully you'll enjoy the process and would be energized by the prospect of earning your flight instructor certificate. The industry needs instructors who are focused solely on providing quality instruction.

Good luck,
 
Looks like you have a plan ,hopefully you will have the time and money required. Good luck.
 
If you fly 100 hours a year for the next 12 years, other wise you’re an old guy with no experience teaching what others have told you.
Experience is a good thing but a desire to teach and the ability to effectively communicate is even better. I think it was Rod Machado who once made the comment about new CFIs that, by the time they become a CFI, they have successfully completed private, instrument, commercial and CFI checkrides. If all they can do is teach you to fly as well as they do, you are way ahead of the game.

Ties in with the best compliment I ever received from a DPE: "He flies better than you!"
 
If you fly 100 hours a year for the next 12 years, other wise you’re an old guy with no experience teaching what others have told you.
Thanks for your input. Just thinking through what is and isn't possible at this point. I would imagine that current CFIs average far less than 1,200 hours, though.
 
You haven't even started your PPL yet? Seems premature to try to decide whether to get your CFI.
Nothing wrong with thinking ahead through several steps. I may be happy with not going beyond my PPL. Just wondering about possibilities.
 
Keep in mind, too, that a CFI-SP doesn’t require pilot certificates or ratings beyond the Private...depending on where you are, that could be a viable option.
 
Experience is a good thing but a desire to teach and the ability to effectively communicate is even better. I think it was Rod Machado who once made the comment about new CFIs that, by the time they become a CFI, they have successfully completed private, instrument, commercial and CFI checkrides. If all they can do is teach you to fly as well as they do, you are way ahead of the game.

Ties in with the best compliment I ever received from a DPE: "He flies better than you!"

There is more to being a CFI than teaching people to operate the machine and a CFI that has only met the minimum requirements and passed 4 checkrides is a rather poor CFI regardless of communication skills.
 
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There more to being a CFI than teaching people to operate the machine and a CFI that has only met the minimum requirements and passed 4 checkrides is a rather poor CFI. regardless of communication skills.
What additional requirements would you suggest?
 
What additional requirements would you suggest?

How about someone who can actually teach situational awareness, risk management, knows something more about weather than how to read a weather report, has real experience with X country flight, Xwind, short field, soft field, takeoffs and landings, actually knows something about aircraft systems because they were in the real world doing this stuff.
 
How about someone who can actually teach situational awareness, risk management, knows something more about weather than how to read a weather report, has real experience with X country flight, Xwind, short field, soft field, takeoffs and landings, actually knows something about aircraft systems because they were in the real world doing this stuff.
And what “minimum requirements” are you talking about that exclude this stuff?
 
And what “minimum requirements” are you talking about that exclude this stuff?

§ 61.129 Aeronautical experience.
(a)For an airplane single-engine rating. Except as provided in paragraph (i) of this section, a person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class rating must log at least 250 hours of flight time as a pilot that consists of at least:

(1) 100 hours in powered aircraft, of which 50 hours must be in airplanes.

(2) 100 hours of pilot-in-command flight time, which includes at least -

(i) 50 hours in airplanes; and

(ii) 50 hours in cross-country flight of which at least 10 hours must be in airplanes.

(3) 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in § 61.127(b)(1) of this part that includes at least -

(i) Ten hours of instrument training using a view-limiting device including attitude instrument flying, partial panel skills, recovery from unusual flight attitudes, and intercepting and tracking navigational systems. Five hours of the 10 hours required on instrument training must be in a single engine airplane;

(ii) 10 hours of training in a complex airplane, a turbine-powered airplane, or a technically advanced airplane (TAA)that meets the requirements of paragraph (j) of this section, or any combination thereof. The airplane must be appropriate to land or sea for the rating sought;

(iii) One 2-hour cross country flight in a single engine airplane in daytime conditions that consists of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure;

(iv) One 2-hour cross country flight in a single engine airplane in nighttime conditions that consists of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(v) Three hours in a single-engine airplane with an authorized instructor in preparation for the practical test within the preceding 2 calendar months from the month of the test.

(4) Ten hours of solo flight time in a single engine airplane or 10 hours of flight time performing the duties of pilot in command in a single engine airplane with an authorized instructor on board (either of which may be credited towards the flight time requirement under paragraph (a)(2) of this section), on the areas of operation listed under § 61.127(b)(1) that include -

(i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point. However, if this requirement is being met in Hawaii, the longest segment need only have a straight-line distance of at least 150 nautical miles; and

(ii) 5 hours in night VFR conditions with 10 takeoffs and 10 landings (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower.

§ 61.183 Eligibility requirements.
To be eligible for a flight instructor certificate or rating a person must:

(c) Hold either a commercial pilot certificate or airline transport pilot certificate with:

(1) An aircraft category and class rating that is appropriate to the flight instructor rating sought; and

(2) An instrument rating, or privileges on that person's pilot certificate that are appropriate to the flight instructor ratingsought, if applying for -

(i) A flight instructor certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class rating;

(d) Receive a logbook endorsement from an authorized instructor on the fundamentals of instructing listed in § 61.185 of this part appropriate to the required knowledge test;

(e) Pass a knowledge test on the areas listed in § 61.185(a)(1)

(f) Pass a knowledge test on the aeronautical knowledge areas listed in § 61.185(a)(2) and (a)(3) of this part that are appropriate to the flight instructor rating sought;

(g) Receive a logbook endorsement from an authorized instructor on the areas of operation listed in § 61.187(b) of this part, appropriate to the flight instructor rating sought;

(h) Pass the required practical test that is appropriate to the flight instructor rating sought in an:

(1)Aircraft that is representative of the category and class of aircraft for the aircraft rating sought; or

(2) Flight simulator or approved flight training device that is representative of the category and class of aircraft for therating sought, and used in accordance with a course at a training center certificated under part 142 of this chapter.

(i) Accomplish the following for a flight instructor certificate with an airplane or a glider rating:

(1) Receive a logbook endorsement from an authorized instructor indicating that the applicant is competent and possesses instructional proficiency in stall awareness, spin entry, spins, and spin recovery procedures after providing the applicant with flight training in those training areas in anairplane or glider, as appropriate, that is certificated for spins; and

(2) Demonstrate instructional proficiency in stall awareness, spin entry, spins, and spin recovery procedures.
(j) Log at least 15 hours as pilot in command in the category and class of aircraft that is appropriate to the flight instructor rating sought; and

(k) Comply with the appropriate sections of this part that apply to the flight instructor rating sought.



The minimums for a CFI should be 500 hours, including 200 hours XC with two flights with a leg of more than 500 miles, 25 hours of night,
 
The minimums for a CFI should be 500 hours, including 200 hours XC with two flights with a leg of more than 500 miles, 25 hours of night,
Having just completed a BFR last week, I can attest it is getting more difficult to locate any CFI. Barring the possibility that they have all heard of me and none wish to fly with me, of course...

The notion that more experience likely makes a better CFI I believe is valid, but at what cost? When I received my private certificate, it was impressed upon me that it was a license to learn. Perhaps the minimums you cite would be better aimed at the CFII rating? Include some, any, actual IMC also...
 
Hours mean very little once you achieve a minimum level of competency; besides, an instructor with 0 dual given is still an instructor with 0 dual given. Increasing the barrier to entry will only decrease the pool available, reducing the number of instructors at all quality levels.
 
Hours mean very little once you achieve a minimum level of competency; besides, an instructor with 0 dual given is still an instructor with 0 dual given. Increasing the barrier to entry will only decrease the pool available, reducing the number of instructors at all quality levels.

Or increase the income levels with increased experience and training, as it does for all professions, so instruction is competitive with other employment sources instead of an compensated experience gaining program.
 
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There is more to being a CFI than teaching people to operate the machine and a CFI that has only met the minimum requirements and passed 4 checkrides is a rather poor CFI regardless of communication skills.
I disagree. At all levels, a pilot certificate or rating is a minimum requirement. Beyond that it is up to the pilot. Some will use the license to learn to, well, learn. Others? Even the best, most experienced CFI won't be able to help.

Might as well preclude landlocked instructors from teaching because they don't have over-water experience, flatland instructors from teaching because they don't have mountain experience.

I've met new CFIs who can teach rings around more experienced aviators.
 
@Clip4 ...i Would say that by the time those regulatory requirements are met, numbers in a logbook mean nothing with regard to the other things you mentioned. Nor do those regulatory requirements preclude anything you listed.

If they’re not going to do this stuff in the first 250, what makes you think they’d do it in the next 250?
 
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One purpose of the FAA's Chief Flight Instructor regulation for 141 schools is to supervise the low experienced CFIs, which is rather prudent for puppy mill CFIs with low experience.

Amazing to have new CFI who isn't qualified to act as PIC in a 182 because they are without a high performance endorsement and people on here touting how qualified they are.

Double amazing having MEIs without a high performance endorsement and haven't flown a plane without counter rotating props. But what the hey, they are qualified under the FAA's minimum standards. Fortunately the insurance companies do a better job than the FAA.
 
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