Cessna brake hose??

#1 Build replacement hose

#2 Take hose assembly to downtown hydraulic shop for pressure test

:idea:
 
bnt83 said:
#1 Build replacement hose

#2 Take hose assembly to downtown hydraulic shop for pressure test

:idea:
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OK, now stop that!

It should read:

#1 Go on internet and ask a self proclaimed expert what to do.

#2 Read several pages of inane and ridiculous post, watch as thread drifts away from original topic.

#3 Turn off computer, ask a competent individual for advise.

#4 Build replacement hose

#5 Take hose assembly to downtown hydraulic shop for pressure test.
 
RotorAndWing said:
OK, now stop that!

It should read:

#1 Go on internet and ask a self proclaimed expert what to do.

#2 Read several pages of inane and ridiculous post, watch as thread drifts away from original topic.

#3 Turn off computer, ask a competent individual for advise.

#4 Build replacement hose

#5 Take hose assembly to downtown hydraulic shop for pressure test.
Click to expand...

If you have a box full of unions you can hook all the hoses together with a plug at one end and test them all at the same time even!


Now they will complain that it doesn't have a metal TSO tag...
 
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pmanton said:
I'm doing an annual on a C-150J and I found the flexible brake hose to the caliper bad on one side. The original P/N S1810-1075 has been superseded by AE3664056B0106. I'm finding a ludicrous price from a low of $225.00 used to $942.00 new.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Why in H can't Cessna use standard hose parts is beyond me.

Thanks
Paul
Salome, AZ
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Since no one knows exactly what these hoses are I would take a picture of both ends and email Precision Hose Technologies (PHT) in Tulsa OK and ask for help. They seemed to be pretty good at answering emails when I bought hoses from them twice.

I think they can convert that AE_________ part # to something useful but I wouldn't even be sure its the right part # you need.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Yea, but we don't have a type certificate to raise the pressure. This is what I use: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/nylbraketube316.php?clickkey=30698


  • Working pressure is 250 PSI
  • Burst Pressure is 1,000 LBS
  • 73 DEG (F)
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I use 1/4" nylon air brake tubing on mine. Its working pressure is normally only about 125 PSI when used in a truck, and has a burst pressure of 1200 PSI. It's been on my airplane for 20 years.

Some of those pressure ratings are pretty conservative. When I plumbed a bathroom into my basement I used half-inch PEX that is rated at 160 PSI. I made up a test section of it and used hydraulic pressure to see just what it would really take. At room temperature, it took over 900 PSI to rupture it. I had expected it to blow off the fittings first, but they held. The plumbing inspector was also amazed and took the ruptured hose back to his office to show the other inspectors.
 
Tom-D said:
Neither of those are requirements.
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Neither is the AMT Handbook even "acceptable data". The quote posted indicates that pressure testing, other than on the ship, is not required.
 
bnt83 said:
Since no one knows exactly what these hoses are
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When you are a trained A&P why wouldn't you know what they are ?

They are the most common hoses in the industry. these have been in usage for many many years.
 
alfadog said:
Neither is the AMT Handbook even "acceptable data". The quote posted indicates that pressure testing, other than on the ship, is not required.
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TRUE,,, I'm happy some one understands the rules besides me.

The FAA types would have you believe anything they produce is law.
 
When any A&P is trained to do a maintenance routine during their training, are they then qualified to do that during maintenance without quoting a reference?

IOWs is general shop practices an authorized method ?
 
Tom-D said:
When you are a trained A&P why wouldn't you know what they are ?

They are the most common hoses in the industry. these have been in usage for many many years.
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Again Tom, you seem to be dead set that this is simple rubber between two 37 degree flare fittings such as aeroquip 491 fittings. You still haven't picked up on the fact that some hoses found on cessnas are swaged with a male threaded on one end with an oddball female on the other. Perhaps because you have never seen these and the OP didn't post a picture of them is the source of your confusion. Only you can tell us why you keep insisting he needs these parts when he has stated several times that those won't fit :dunno:
 
bnt83 said:
Again Tom, you seem to be dead set that this is simple rubber between two 37 degree flare fittings such as aeroquip 491 fittings. You still haven't picked up on the fact that some hoses found on cessnas are swaged with a male threaded on one end with an oddball female on the other. Perhaps because you have never seen these and the OP didn't post a picture of them is the source of your confusion. Only you can tell us why you keep insisting he needs these parts when he has stated several times that those won't fit :dunno:
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Yes I have noted that, are they required to be replaced with a like item? (FAR 43.13)
 
Tom-D said:
Yes I have noted that, are they required to replaced with a like item? (FAR 43.13)
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If that exact hose can be bought easily from a company like PHT why mess around trying to change the airplane to make the 491 fittings work?
 
bnt83 said:
If that exact hose can be bought easily from a company like PHT why mess around trying to change the airplane to make the 491 fittings work?
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You ask an irrelevant question.

But to answer it, we keep in stock hose and fittings to build hoses rather than asking the owner to wait two weeks until we get a hose that will cost a lot more.
 
Tom-D said:
Yes I have noted that, are they required to be replaced with a like item? (FAR 43.13)
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This whole area of making changes like that is the one that I have the most difficulty with.

For two and a half years, instructors worked to beat out my "backyard mechanic" mentality. I've been working on cars, boats, heavy equipment, motorcycles for 50 years and I'm pretty damn good at it. If you want the carburetor off the 150, let me walk over there and take the carburetor off for you. No no no, do your research, get the written material, and then take it off. Don't do anything without the written material to hand. OK. It took some doing but I made the change.

Then my first job as a mechanic, I ask the boss, hey do you have the manual or the paperwork? No, just go over there and do it. :goofy:

Of course, we were working on museum pieces but not always. We were also working on a V35B Bonanza. I'm not working now cause things got slow and he didn't have enough work for a third A&P in addition to himself; that was agreed upon when I started, that the work for me might not show up. Right now I'm not looking for something else as I have a lot to do around the house but I'm curious what kind of environment I might run into next.
 
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alfadog said:
This whole area of making changes like that is the one that I have the most difficulty with.
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Many of our so called experts don't get it either.
 
alfadog said:
For two and a half years, instructors worked to beat out my "backyard mechanic" mentality. I've been working on cars, boats, heavy equipment, motorcycles for 50 years and I'm pretty damn good at it. If you want the carburetor off the 150, let me walk over there and take the carburetor off for you. No no no, do your research, get the written material, and then take it off. Don't do anything without the written material to hand. OK. It took some doing but I made the change.
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They do this because of these type of incidents.

#1 Go remove that de-ice valve. So you go to it without looking up any data and then you end up cracking the thing. Then you tell the supervisor that you cracked it. Then the supervisor discovers that a new valve is $30k. Management wants to know how the valve got cracked. You say you didn't get data prior to performing the job. Now you're looking for a new job.

An example of an extreme but it can and does happen.
 
bnt83 said:
They do this because of these type of incidents.

#1 Go remove that de-ice valve. So you go to it without looking up any data and then you end up cracking the thing. Then you tell the supervisor that you cracked it. Then the supervisor discovers that a new valve is $30k. Management wants to know how the valve got cracked. You say you didn't get data prior to performing the job. Now you're looking for a new job.

An example of an extreme but it can and does happen.
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It was cracked before I ever touched it.
 
AC43.13 is titled "Acceptable methods, techniques and practices." Even our Canadian government recognizes it as acceptable data for repairing or making stuff, and it has a whole section on hoses and the making thereof. If the manufacturer's manuals have data on the subject, they trump the AC.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
amazing....:D
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Apparently every one has forgotten ::

General privileges and limitations.
(a) A certificated mechanic may perform or supervise the maintenance, preventive maintenance or alteration of an aircraft or appliance, or a part thereof, for which he is rated (but excluding major repairs to, and major alterations of, propellers, and any repair to, or alteration of, instruments), and may perform additional duties in accordance with §§65.85, 65.87, and 65.95. However, he may not supervise the maintenance, preventive maintenance, or alteration of, or approve and return to service, any aircraft or appliance, or part thereof, for which he is rated unless he has satisfactorily performed the work concerned at an earlier date. If he has not so performed that work at an earlier date, he may show his ability to do it by performing it to the satisfaction of the Administrator or under the direct supervision of a certificated and appropriately rated mechanic, or a certificated repairman, who has had previous experience in the specific operation concerned.

(b) A certificated mechanic may not exercise the privileges of his certificate and rating unless he understands the current instructions of the manufacturer, and the maintenance manuals, for the specific operation concerned.
 
you think the hose manufacturer tests the hoses before they get installed? or ......do they just install them and see if it works? :D
Tom-D said:
Apparently every one has forgotten ::

General privileges and limitations.
(a) A certificated mechanic may perform or supervise the maintenance, preventive maintenance or alteration of an aircraft or appliance, or a part thereof, for which he is rated (but excluding major repairs to, and major alterations of, propellers, and any repair to, or alteration of, instruments), and may perform additional duties in accordance with §§65.85, 65.87, and 65.95. However, he may not supervise the maintenance, preventive maintenance, or alteration of, or approve and return to service, any aircraft or appliance, or part thereof, for which he is rated unless he has satisfactorily performed the work concerned at an earlier date. If he has not so performed that work at an earlier date, he may show his ability to do it by performing it to the satisfaction of the Administrator or under the direct supervision of a certificated and appropriately rated mechanic, or a certificated repairman, who has had previous experience in the specific operation concerned.

(b) A certificated mechanic may not exercise the privileges of his certificate and rating unless he understands the current instructions of the manufacturer, and the maintenance manuals, for the specific operation concerned.
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Checkout_my_Six said:
you think the hose manufacturer tests the hoses before they get installed? or ......do they just install them and see if it works? :D
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That depends upon who manufactured the hose, It really is up to them.

If you were a large FBO with liabilities, would you?

When you are a A&P in the field are you required to ?
 
you forgot one....:D
§43.13 Performance rules (general).

(a) Each person performing maintenance, alteration, or preventive maintenance on an aircraft, engine, propeller, or appliance shall use the methods, techniques, and practices prescribed in the current manufacturer's maintenance manual or Instructions for Continued Airworthiness prepared by its manufacturer, or other methods, techniques, and practices acceptable to the Administrator, except as noted in §43.16. He shall use the tools, equipment, and test apparatus necessary to assure completion of the work in accordance with accepted industry practices. If special equipment or test apparatus is recommended by the manufacturer involved, he must use that equipment or apparatus or its equivalent acceptable to the Administrator.
(b) Each person maintaining or altering, or performing preventive maintenance, shall do that work in such a manner and use materials of such a quality, that the condition of the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, or appliance worked on will be at least equal to its original or properly altered condition (with regard to aerodynamic function, structural strength, resistance to vibration and deterioration, and other qualities affecting airworthiness).
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Checkout_my_Six said:
you forgot one....:D
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nope you are trying to add requirements that are not required, or show me the equipment actually required by regulations to test a hose in the field.

When you use the proper equipment such as the mandrel to assemble the hose parts haven't you met that requirement, because there is no requirement to test a hose?
 
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I respectfully disagree....Tom

be safe my friend. ;)
 
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Checkout_my_Six said:
I respectfully disagree....Tom

be safe my friend. ;)

Here's the standard for the equivalent hose....with testing.
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Now you want us to believe the hoses we use must be TSO'ed ?

quote
If special equipment or test apparatus is recommended by the manufacturer involved, he must use that equipment or apparatus or its equivalent acceptable to the Administrator.

that's a big if isn't it?
You'd have to have a requirement, before that would come into play.
 
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Just think, If you buy the parts, then make up the hoses, aren't you the manufacturer?
 
For Grove brakes, I'll note that there's a note on the chart for 6" wheels:

"NOTE: Braking torque calculated at 600 psi brake line pressure"

And for their master cylinders:

"Max Pressure = 1,200 psi"

So, there's Grove's idea of what a standard braking hydraulic pressure is.
 
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