Cessna 210L

Fearless Tower said:
OP already said there are no logs. Only thing you'll have is the 337s on file with the FAA.
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I missed that. Oh Well, we've been here before. - about 5k
 
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I'll start by admitting I know nothing about the Cessna family. Never owned one, very few hours in one.

But - lets look at the other way. Presume it was a perfect specimen 12 years ago, and was all up to date with a 300 hour engine, prop and ADs fully up to date. Get in the way back machine and it's right now Jan 2003, the plane is in annual, and recently flown. What is it's value right now(2003)? Now, deduct the lost logs, and extensive annual from that value. I would guess, and it's only a rough guess that $30k would be fair for a plane that I will presume will fly with a good annual, some tires, hoses, and new batt and fluids.
 
Tom-D said:
Not on aircraft that may have a finished selling price of over $100,000.

Remember you make your money buying, not selling.

Bring it into the shop, wash it, inspect it see what needs repair, order a used engine, start new logs, (if needed) yank the Cessna arc radios, install new windows, interior, 1 new GPS com.

1 hell of a family hauler / cross country aircraft.

$125,000 possibly.
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Right, and like most projects, by the time you're done, you'll pay yourself $1.25 an hr. You're probably the best buyer ecause it's a busywork project for you, and you can do all the required mechanical and paperwork. You're also going to sink $50k into the panel to have a chance of selling it over $100k, because I don't think this is a Turbo.

BTW, how long have those $100k+ T-210Ls been listed?

Put it on eBay see what it does, no reserve it so it disappears on an 'As Is Where Is, you come get it' deal.
 
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Is this the year they removed the gear doors.....the ones with the ADs?

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Henning said:
Right, and like most projects, by the time you're done, you'll pay yourself $1.25 an hr. You're probably the best buyer ecause it's a busywork project for you, and you can do all the required mechanical and paperwork. You're also going to sink $50k into the panel to have a chance of selling it over $100k, because I don't think this is a Turbo.

BTW, how long have those $100k+ T-210Ls been listed?

Put it on eBay see what it does, no reserve it so it disappears on an 'As Is Where Is, you come get it' deal.
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IT would be foolish to place 50k in the radio stack on any project.

Clean it up, get it flying, sell it for 20k over investment.
 
Controller has more than TradeAPlane.

The ones in the US range from $99k to $154k.

If the logs suddenly appeared and the engine was runout, how much would it be worth?
 
logs are worth 20-30% of retail value.....but this is a subjective thing.

so, in this case......bout $30,000.

It "could" be a real deal.....but, how lucky do ya feel? :D
 
JoseCuervo said:
Controller has more than TradeAPlane.

The ones in the US range from $99k to $154k.

If the logs suddenly appeared and the engine was runout, how much would it be worth?
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There are those who would buy a junker from a salvage yard, do some data tag swapping and waa laa. low time beauty.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Controller has more than TradeAPlane.

The ones in the US range from $99k to $154k.

If the logs suddenly appeared and the engine was runout, how much would it be worth?
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With logs and a run out, if the airframe is in good shape it should be worth $50k unless you can show me where those are selling at $99-154k. How much did the last ones sell for?
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
logs are worth 20-30% of retail value.....but this is a subjective thing.

so, in this case......bout $30,000.

It "could" be a real deal.....but, how lucky do ya feel? :D
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Somebody swaps the motor with a 500 hour logged engine, does 3 years of annuals in new log books, how much of that discount goes away in 3 years with "replaced" logs?
 
Tom-D said:
There are those who would buy a junker from a salvage yard, do some data tag swapping and waa laa. low time beauty.
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And other posters, up above, have decided the data plate could be purchased from negative $5k to $10k.

Seems viable.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
logs are worth 20-30% of retail value.....but this is a subjective thing.

so, in this case......bout $30,000.

It "could" be a real deal.....but, how lucky do ya feel? :D
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First entry of the new logs.


This aircraft was restored after being in dry storage for 12 years with the following replaced or overhauled. Times was calculated from FAA Records and pilot time prior to the storage period.
Replaced engine with use unit with 100 hours TT.
Overhauled Prop. TSMO 5 hours.
Airframe was stripped and polished and trimmed in ____
Interior replaced, new windscreen and side & rear installed, All ADs verified or complied with as required.
All radios removed and replaced with Garmin stack, see separate entries.

what would it be worth? Let's assume that the TT works out to be less than 3000 Hours.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Somebody swaps the motor with a 500 hour logged engine, does 3 years of annuals in new log books, how much of that discount goes away in 3 years with "replaced" logs?
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I'd say you end up losing a significant proportion of that prorating the next 20 years then stabilizing at 10% or so.
 
Tom-D said:
First entry of the new logs.


This aircraft was restored after being in dry storage for 12 years with the following replaced or overhauled. Times was calculated from FAA Records and pilot time prior to the storage period.
Replaced engine with use unit with 100 hours TT.
Overhauled Prop. TSMO 5 hours.
Airframe was stripped and polished and trimmed in ____
Interior replaced, new windscreen and side & rear installed, All ADs verified or complied with as required.
All radios removed and replaced with Garmin stack, see separate entries.

what would it be worth? Let's assume that the TT works out to be less than 3000 Hours.
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That is the $64,000 question isn't it? In this market? Who is going to buy a 40 year old 210 when they can buy a 10 year old SR.-22 for that money?:dunno:

If you want a 210 for you to have, this might be one of the best deals you'll ever find. As a revenue generating project, I see it as high risk. I don't think you an sell a plane for >$80k without putting glass in it anymore.
 
Henning said:
That is the $64,000 question isn't it? In this market? Who is going to buy a 40 year old 210 when they can buy a 10 year old SR.-22 for that money?:dunno:

If you want a 210 for you to have, this might be one of the best deals you'll ever find. As a revenue generating project, I see it as high risk. I don't think you an sell a plane for >$80k without putting glass in it anymore.
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.... and a nice autopilot. :rofl:
 
Henning said:
That is the $64,000 question isn't it? In this market? Who is going to buy a 40 year old 210 when they can buy a 10 year old SR.-22 for that money?:dunno:

If you want a 210 for you to have, this might be one of the best deals you'll ever find. As a revenue generating project, I see it as high risk. I don't think you an sell a plane for >$80k without putting glass in it anymore.
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You guys with the big bucks run in different circles than the guys that want a great family hauler at a minimal cost.
 
Tom-D said:
You guys with the big bucks run in different circles than the guys that want a great family hauler at a minimal cost.
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They want to pay $50k. YOU may be able to pay $30k for that plane and make it work, but I don't know anyone without an IA that could, nor anyone not on a pension that allows them to do the refit as a hobby just paying for parts.

Like I said, go for it, but if you're going to market to the bottom scrapers, they don't pay $90k for a 210L, they pay $35k for 210D with a 430W in it.
 
Henning said:
They want to pay $50k. YOU may be able to pay $30k for that plane and make it work, but I don't know anyone without an IA that could, nor anyone not on a pension that allows them to do the refit as a hobby just paying for parts.



Like I said, go for it, but if you're going to market to the bottom scrapers, they don't pay $90k for a 210L, they pay $35k for 210D with a 430W in it.
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What are the hard costs on parts and components needed?


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JoseCuervo said:
What are the hard costs on parts and components needed?


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If you're dropping this off with the local FBO for repair?.....$65-90K for the the maintenance bill.:dunno:

If you get lucky and reuse that engine and prop.....it could be as less as $10-15K in parts....and the rest in labor.

but a paint and interior job is gonna run at least $20-30K.
 
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Checkout_my_Six said:
If you're dropping this off with the local FBO for repair?.....$65-90K for the the maintenance bill.:dunno:

If you get lucky and reuse that engine and prop.....it could be as less as $10-15K in parts....and the rest in labor.

but a paint and interior job is gonna run at least $20-30K.
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Lol if you're using a FBO shop for repairs you ether have way too much money or shouldn't be in the ownership group.
 
JoseCuervo said:
What are the hard costs on parts and components needed?


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Let's assume this is a "Barn Find" aircraft and the airframe and interior score a 10, all it needs is a couple of coats of wax and lube and service, Tom complies with all the ADs and gets it in annual for minimum cost, even the gear saddles are in great shape, and it appears to be a really low time airframe.

Tom can probably overhaul the engine to minimum tolerances "new" condition for $17k. If the engine is low time as well and all the parts are beautiful and can be reused, he can likely get by under $5-7k and make a new log book declaring TT Unknown, "0 SMOH" and declare condition. This has to be allowed for in selling price and ability, I wouldn't mind, lots of people balk. Probably for resale purposes to build it into a $100+ airplane you are best to just trade for a factory rebuild and get a new factory zero time log book. It's actually one of if not the highest return investment, especially when the install cost is absorbed into a hobby. I'm guessing you can get an IO-470--R for $21-23k.:dunno:

What kills the value and sellability is the panel. It has nothing, and that is fine, but it pretty much limits the bidding to $50k regardless everything else. Eventually if you wait long enough someone will give $70 because they are wiling to put $50-60k in the panel and have a top notch airplane they'll keep for a long time. Here's the thing, there's a high likelihood that buyer will succumb to a SR-22 because their wife or even they like the parachute.

The Parachute and depreciation on the early SR-22s has made the 210 an obolete airplane at the $100k+ price point, unless you give them glass. This plane probably has a Cessna 300 autopilot which is perfectly good. GTN-750/G-600/Engine pack you can get done for $50-60k and have a panel of comparable capability of a $250k glass SR-22. Now you have a competitive advantage, but unless you got the labor for free, you can't afford to have $30k in it.
 
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Henning said:
Let's assume this is a "Barn Find" aircraft and the airframe and interior score a 10, all it needs is a couple of coats of wax and lube and service, Tom complies with all the ADs and gets it in annual for minimum cost, even the gear saddles are in great shape, and it appears to be a really low time airframe.

Tom can probably overhaul the engine to minimum tolerances "new" condition for $17k. If the engine is low time as well and all the parts are beautiful and can be reused, he can likely get by under $5-7k and make a new log book declaring TT Unknown, "0 SMOH" and declare condition. This has to be allowed for in selling price and ability, I wouldn't mind, lots of people balk. Probably for resale purposes to build it into a $100+ airplane you are best to just trade for a factory rebuild and get a new factory zero time log book. It's actually one of if not the highest return investment, especially when the install cost is absorbed into a hobby. I'm guessing you can get an IO-470--R for $21-23k.:dunno:

What kills the value and sellability is the panel. It has nothing, and that is fine, but it pretty much limits the bidding to $50k regardless everything else. Eventually if you wait long enough someone will give $70 because they are wiling to put $50-60k in the panel and have a top notch airplane they'll keep for a long time. Here's the thing, there's a high likelihood that buyer will succumb to a SR-22 because their wife or even they like the parachute.

The Parachute and depreciation on the early SR-22s has made the 210 an obolete airplane at the $100k+ price point, unless you give them glass. This plane probably has a Cessna 300 autopilot which is perfectly good. GTN-750/G-600/Engine pack you can get done for $50-60k and have a panel of comparable capability of a $250k glass SR-22. Now you have a competitive advantage, but unless you got the labor for free, you can't afford to have $30k in it.
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The cirrus and the 210 are diffrent planes, for a diffrent demographic.

For photography, survey, patrol, hauling folks, the 210 is the superior aircraft.
 
James331 said:
The cirrus and the 210 are diffrent planes, for a diffrent demographic.

For photography, survey, patrol, hauling folks, the 210 is the superior aircraft.
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Yep, now please tell me what they're buying them for this week?
 
Henning said:
Yep, now please tell me what they're buying them for this week?
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I'd say market value.

Depends on engine, etc.

A 135 ready 550ed 210, I'd image it would be into the 6 figures.
 
James331 said:
I'd say market value.

Depends on engine, etc.

A 135 ready 550ed 210, I'd image it would be into the 6 figures.
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This plane can never be 135 unless it has logs from day one. BTDT. I mean "as is".
 
Henning said:
When I was talking to Miramar FSDO about a Lake they said it wouldn't work.:dunno: Wasn't really in a position to make it work at that point regardless, but the plane was a deal with destroyed logs.
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Nothing in the regulations rule it out, nothing in the guidance rules it out. There have been companies using airplanes with reconstructed logs in 135.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Nothing in the regulations rule it out, nothing in the guidance rules it out. There have been companies using airplanes with reconstructed logs in 135.
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Well that's good to know. I guess for 135 it goes through a conformance inspection anyway right? That should settle everything right there.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
If you're dropping this off with the local FBO for repair?.....$65-90K for the the maintenance bill.:dunno:

If you get lucky and reuse that engine and prop.....it could be as less as $10-15K in parts....and the rest in labor.

but a paint and interior job is gonna run at least $20-30K.
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The hard costs are $10-15k?
 
Henning said:
Tom can probably overhaul the engine to minimum tolerances "new" condition for $17k.
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YGTBSM, Dodson has a TSIO-520- with less than 500 hours on it for a hell of a lot less than that, and it has a log.
 
Tom-D said:
YGTBSM, Dodson has a TSIO-520- with less than 500 hours on it for a hell of a lot less than that, and it has a log.
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Pic the plane up and make something of it and off of it, you're one of the few people in a position to do it, but you'll still have to get it home for <$15k to do it.
 
Henning said:
Pic the plane up and make something of it and off of it, you're one of the few people in a position to do it, but you'll still have to get it home for <$15k to do it.
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The next time you need a project aircraft moved, would you please call me.

You don't even know where this 210 is, and you are throwing out $15K.
 
Tom-D said:
The next time you need a project aircraft moved, would you please call me.

You don't even know where this 210 is, and you are throwing out $15K.
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No, I mean you have to get it purchased and home for <$15k total if you are going to assure you make money on that plane.
 
Henning said:
No, I mean you have to get it purchased and home for <$15k total if you are going to assure you make money on that plane.
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I knew you'd change your story. :rofl:
 
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