Cessna 185 inspection?

Ryan

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I have a bit of an interesting situation with my newly acquired aircraft. I will try to clarify as much as possible.

I'll start off by saying that my grandfather was the mechanic on his (now mine) 1961 Cessna 185. The airplane is located down half an hour past San Antonio, Texas. I am located up in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Due to health issues and them moving away from the aircraft, it has not flown since early the late nineties. My grandpa had handed me the keys for the airplane just a few months ago. The only issue with this, is that he can not remember what he was working on when he got sick, or why he had it apart. I suspect that a full inspection of the aircraft is needed. I am unaware of any maintenance places in south west Texas that would allow for someone to come to the airplane, as the airplane is not moving without major help.

The things we do know, are that the fuel system had corroded out (this scares me pretty bad) and that the interior is literally missing (I do not have any photos of whats up with that).

I come to the forums asking for any advice on the situation and if anyone knows a shop that would be okay with coming to the aircraft in southern Texas. If someone here is knowledgeable with this particular air-frame and in the surrounding area, please message me.
 

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First off, congrats, that's one of the best single engine GA planes out there IMHO, I might be a little biased though ;)

For the interior issue, I'd just toss in a Selkirk interior, they make nearly every interior piece for these planes, and they are far better than the factory plastic, the rest of the soft parts (carpet, seats, etc) can be handled by a auto upholstery shop, just search on this forum for details on that.
The desirable interior on these planes is rather minimalistic as well.

Here's Selkirk
http://selkirk-aviation.com

For the fuel system, I'm not sure if you're bladders or not on the older 185s, my suggestion on this would be to also post the same question on backcountrypilot.org, lots of skywagon drivers over there and there are a couple who live in TX, I recall one guy who recently completed a complete restoration/pimp my ride on his 185.

Ether way, for sure a plane worth fixing up, be sure to get some good instruction from a 185 experienced CFI before your first flight too.
 
Thank you! I am also a little biased about these 185's ;)

I was talking with one of my 180 buddies and he is friends with the mechanics that did a full restoration from the ground up on a 61 185. Might even be the same airplane we are talking about! I guess I'm next in line for the pimp my Skywagon treatment.

It's not just missing the interior, it's also missing the instruments. I guess this a good thing, as I was probably going to have the originals retrofitted go something along the lines of what you got in your wagon (beauty of a plane you got there James).

It's got the bladder tanks... From what I hear, those are pretty fun to replace. My grandfather does recall that the tanks are in need of replacement. Drats!

I will go ahead and register with backcountry pilot site rather quikly. Don't worry I'll make sure and get instruction on the type, I'm not just going to spend 50 grand plus to wreck it day one!!!
 
Ryan: I'll give you a different suggestion...If you are stable where you are at, ie not moving anytime soon, why not ship the a/c up to where you are at and work on it up there? It's not that expensive to have a known good aircraft hauler move it to your location.

With the one photo showing some serious surface corrosion, there is a possibility of there being lots more and a chance of some serious problems. Unless you have buckets of AMU's to spend AND have utmost faith in the integrity and honesty of whomever is doing the work, it would be much better to have it closer to you. By having it close and where you can do lots of the grunt work under the direction of an A&P or AI, you won't drop as many AMU's, you will gain tons of experience on maintaining a 185, and you will be ultimately familiar with this particular one. Also having it close will cut down on the back and forth's over do we do this or that when it does arise.
 
No interior is no problem. How you address the panel may get expensive. With the interior stripped and the panel out the fuel system is easily accessible and easy to service. Don't overthink it, it's not a complicated airplane.

 
I agree with Craig. This is not a project you want to handle from afar. You need to be able to check on progress periodically.
 
I also agree with Craig. Have the wings pulled and have it shipped to your local shop of preference in MN. You might also consider having the engine pulled down there and sent to a shop for IRAN and then shipped to your shop when it is ready. James also makes a good point on the interior. A little time and money and you could have not only a great plane to fly but possibly a real showpiece as well. Good luck!
 
It looks like it has had some water corrosion pretty bad as in salt water or sitting water. If it would not hurt your Grantfather's feelings too bad, I would ebay it as is where is. and then use the money to buy something you can fly. Unless you are mechanically handy or looking to become handy. The interior and guages are probably sitting in the hanger. Think about 750 each to overhaul. If you want to fly vs. want to work on a plane while other fly, just ebay it.
 
I am sure your 185 has sentimental value but you might want to sell the plane as is for someone else to restore.
Take the money from the sale, add the money you are going to spend (lots) and go shop a nice 185. Go fly!
Either way, good luck with it.
 
I am sure your 185 has sentimental value but you might want to sell the plane as is for someone else to restore.
Take the money from the sale, add the money you are going to spend (lots) and go shop a nice 185. Go fly!
Either way, good luck with it.

It's not a 172 or a 182, you'll find a "nice 185" is going to be $150,000+. For what it would cost to fix this one up, factoring in he got it as a gift, no way on earth could be just sell it and get a done up 185.

If it were me, I'd bring it up to me, like the others suggested, find a good APIA to work with and do all the grunt work myself and have my AP inspect, teach/dictate and get her done that way.

For the panel, with some of the stuff dynon is getting certified, that might be a good way to go, there are also always folks selling aspens, think there's one for sale on this forum right now for 6k or so, not sure how many primary instruments that replaces however. ASIs and altimeters and such are plentiful on barnstormer and eBay, if needed, overhauls ain't to expensive, if even needed, ether.

If you send the engine, depending on the time and years on the current one, off for overhaul that will get you done firewall forward, look into doing the IO550 swap if you do this, my understanding is it's not much extra work and it WILL increase your resale and performance.
 
Not much point in sending the engine for overhaul before you know the airframe is in good condition.
 
No matter the condition, even if it took years because of time and budget, I'd restore and fly it. Just because it was grandpas. But that's just me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Does the plane still have the IO-470 or has it been upgraded to a 520?

It isn't a wreck, right? Any decent Cessna mechanic would have an easy time whipping that plane into shape. The cost will be driven by the panel equipment choices. The rest is simple. Having a TX shop do the work would be a fine choice if you find a shop you trust. It isn't a difficult project and regular updates from long distance are easy with smart phone cameras.

Go to Supercub.org and read the "light 185 project" thread. George Mandes had a '62 that Beegles worked over. He did upgrade his engine but if a light airframes has a healthy IO-470 I'd fly it until it needed replacing. http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?32357-Light-185-project
 
No matter the condition, even if it took years because of time and budget, I'd restore and fly it. Just because it was grandpas. But that's just me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For sure!

I'd wager a beer and a buck that the airframe is going to be OK though.


No interior is no problem. How you address the panel may get expensive. With the interior stripped and the panel out the fuel system is easily accessible and easy to service. Don't overthink it, it's not a complicated airplane.



Nicely done! It's kinda a mashup between a bare fiberglass interior and a upholstered interior, beautiful plane
 
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I replaced the original interior with Selkirk. I hated everything about it. Fitting it, installing it, looking at it... Replaced that with Plane Plastics. Better but not good enough. I like what I have much better.

The OP isn't facing an ominous project. Just a repair and reassembly that will allow some personalized customization. That's fun stuff, especially with his price of acquisition.
 
Indeed.

What did you not like about the Selkirk?

I just got a rudder trim bezel and am thinking of replacing all my plastic with their stuff, any info you have would be great!
 
Its very stiff and fragile. It requires fixing cracks from taking it in and out as you trim and fit it. It doesn't conform to any subtle voids underneath. There's no crisp detail to any of the parts, just rounded, featureless appearance. I didn't prefer that. Some guys do. Plastics has better detailing with crisper lines and a little heat will help shape parts to fit. In either case I just don't prefer that style of interior.
 
Call Beegles. Have them go get it and restore it to better than new.

Beegles.....Best of the Best!!
 
$$

Not sure this one is a technical enough of a job to require those guys.
 
This is going to be a long reply, I'll try to answer everyone the best as I can. Let me start off by saying thank you to all of your input, I got more than I was expecting.

Ryan: I'll give you a different suggestion...If you are stable where you are at, ie not moving anytime soon, why not ship the a/c up to where you are at and work on it up there? It's not that expensive to have a known good aircraft hauler move it to your location.

With the one photo showing some serious surface corrosion, there is a possibility of there being lots more and a chance of some serious problems. Unless you have buckets of AMU's to spend AND have utmost faith in the integrity and honesty of whomever is doing the work, it would be much better to have it closer to you. By having it close and where you can do lots of the grunt work under the direction of an A&P or AI, you won't drop as many AMU's, you will gain tons of experience on maintaining a 185, and you will be ultimately familiar with this particular one. Also having it close will cut down on the back and forth's over do we do this or that when it does arise.
I am just starting with a technical college this year, I will be moving back down to Texas once I am done. I have another friend who told me pretty much exactly the same thing. For now I just need to find a guy who can inspect it thoroughly, and find any problem before it becomes a bigger problem down the road.

No interior is no problem. How you address the panel may get expensive. With the interior stripped and the panel out the fuel system is easily accessible and easy to service. Don't overthink it, it's not a complicated airplane.

It is complicated to me ;) Anyways most of the stuff is in a shipping container next to the hanger, I would probably need to have most of it reupholstered.
I would really like to put a later style panel into the aircraft, and do my instrument training with it. I had a photo but I can not find it at this time :/

I agree with Craig. This is not a project you want to handle from afar. You need to be able to check on progress periodically.
I don't want to just let some guy work on it and give me no progress updates, or worse misplace the logbooks and certificates. As I said earlier in the post I plan on moving back to Texas after I finish with my two year college program I am taking.

I also agree with Craig. Have the wings pulled and have it shipped to your local shop of preference in MN. You might also consider having the engine pulled down there and sent to a shop for IRAN and then shipped to your shop when it is ready. James also makes a good point on the interior. A little time and money and you could have not only a great plane to fly but possibly a real showpiece as well. Good luck!
There are not really any shops in Minnecolda other than Wipeair that I know of, and are they expensive or what?

It looks like it has had some water corrosion pretty bad as in salt water or sitting water. If it would not hurt your Grantfather's feelings too bad, I would ebay it as is where is. and then use the money to buy something you can fly. Unless you are mechanically handy or looking to become handy. The interior and guages are probably sitting in the hanger. Think about 750 each to overhaul. If you want to fly vs. want to work on a plane while other fly, just ebay it.
I am sure your 185 has sentimental value but you might want to sell the plane as is for someone else to restore.
Take the money from the sale, add the money you are going to spend (lots) and go shop a nice 185. Go fly!
Either way, good luck with it.
I cant sell the airplane, my parents will not allow it to happen. They grew up with it, just as I am about to.

It's not a 172 or a 182, you'll find a "nice 185" is going to be $150,000+. For what it would cost to fix this one up, factoring in he got it as a gift, no way on earth could be just sell it and get a done up 185.

If it were me, I'd bring it up to me, like the others suggested, find a good APIA to work with and do all the grunt work myself and have my AP inspect, teach/dictate and get her done that way.

For the panel, with some of the stuff dynon is getting certified, that might be a good way to go, there are also always folks selling aspens, think there's one for sale on this forum right now for 6k or so, not sure how many primary instruments that replaces however. ASIs and altimeters and such are plentiful on barnstormer and eBay, if needed, overhauls ain't to expensive, if even needed, ether.

If you send the engine, depending on the time and years on the current one, off for overhaul that will get you done firewall forward, look into doing the IO550 swap if you do this, my understanding is it's not much extra work and it WILL increase your resale and performance.
No mater what happens with the airplane, I will make my money back if I have to sell it. I practically got it as a graduation gift that needs a little fixing uping. Like I had put earlier in the post, I plan on doing a late panel conversion for instrument training. I have just enough cash to get it flying again, without a 550 swap. The 550 swap is planed for the future when I make some more cash ;)

Does the plane still have the IO-470 or has it been upgraded to a 520?

It isn't a wreck, right? Any decent Cessna mechanic would have an easy time whipping that plane into shape. The cost will be driven by the panel equipment choices. The rest is simple. Having a TX shop do the work would be a fine choice if you find a shop you trust. It isn't a difficult project and regular updates from long distance are easy with smart phone cameras.

Go to Supercub.org and read the "light 185 project" thread. George Mandes had a '62 that Beegles worked over. He did upgrade his engine but if a light airframes has a healthy IO-470 I'd fly it until it needed replacing. http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?32357-Light-185-project
It still has its original IO-470. I am pretty sure they upgraded it to chrome cylinders on the last rebuild. I will check out that light 185, and look into Beegles.


For sure!

I'd wager a beer and a buck that the airframe is going to be OK though.
I wouldn't bet you that, because I would lose! The air-frame has just sat and waited for someone to give it the time of day, nothing should be wrong with it at all.

Thanks again guys, I really want to get this airplane back into the air as quick as possible without spending my entire educational fund. Again the airplane was literally a graduation gift, as my grandfather couldn't fly it anymore. Whatever I put into it, I am pretty sure I will get back out of it.
 
In case you want to know what she looked like way back when, this is the best photo I got.
 

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And there is no reason she can't look that good again or even better.
Just gotta find someone that knows what's they are doing.

Anybody have advice on this panel layout? It's on a 180/185.
 

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Just gotta find someone that knows what's they are doing.

Anybody have advice on this panel layout? It's on a 180/185.

It's all preference, but if it were me I wouldn't waste panel space on panel mounting a portable GPS "VFR reference only" unit, I also like to have my transponder in my center stack, something like

audio panel
Nav/com1
Navcom2
Transponder

If you can put a HSI or EHSI in, that'll help a bit for IFR ops.

This keeps everything within reach and you don't the have to be reaching to the copilot side to ident or mess with the transponder. While you're wiring this stuff up, adding a phono in and out to comm 3 wouldn't be a bad idea
 
Then do this. Find out what the MEL would be. and what would be the minimum interior to pass an annual. Then focus on those items and start sourcing them. I would think a hanger inventory would be the first step. Throw some MMO in the cylinders before you turn the prop over. I would say 10 AMUs and a year of time should get you going.
 
Subscribing to the thread to see the progress you make. That's (one of) my dream plane!
 
@James331 Thanks guys, I will look into how I lay out my panel. Lots of money to spend in this area, that I don't want to spend :p

@yetti Never thought about doing it that way with the MEL. That will get interesting pretty quick.

@farmerbrake Thanks! These are good airplanes from what I hear, I'll have to let you guys know how I feel on how it flies when I get there :p

Progress will be slow at first, need to find a shop that will be okay with sending an AI out to check the airplane. If he doesn't find anything major then the work begins!
 
Ryan, you should sign up on the Cessna Support website and download the 185 service manual info. It'll help you understand what you don't know or aren't familiar with. If you're going to be an owner you may as well be an informed owner. Enjoy Grampa's gift. That's pretty special.
 
Ryan, you should sign up on the Cessna Support website and download the 185 service manual info. It'll help you understand what you don't know or aren't familiar with. If you're going to be an owner you may as well be an informed owner. Enjoy Grampa's gift. That's pretty special.
One step ahead of you on that one! I have an account with Cessna/Textron support, but I can not seem to find documents relating to my specific model. Always smart to be an informed owner!
 
Join here

http://skywagons.org/

They have some club made manuals for the 180/5 that are worth their weight in gold, used to be you had to give them the serial number of your plane to get in, but now they are open to non owners too, great resource
 
Guy's, don't ask what it cost to build George M light weight 185. Beegles will build you a better than new 185 out of yours, again costly, but much cheaper than buying a new one if Cessna still made them. I've been lucky enough to have been the custodian of my 1971 185 for 40 years this summer. Purchased it in 1976 when I was 40 years old, and it has been part of our family for all those years. One of the best aircraft ever made, and it's little brother, the 180 is a fine aircraft also.

What was you grandfathers name and and when did he quit flying it? Having joined the 180/185 club in 1980, I may have ran into him at some of the Texas club fly-ins way back. Our second club President (after Bomber) lives in Georgetown ,TX and I'll bet he knew him. Your a very lucky guy to get this bird from Granpa.
Ron
 
Guy's, don't ask what it cost to build George M light weight 185. Beegles will build you a better than new 185 out of yours, again costly, but much cheaper than buying a new one if Cessna still made them. I've been lucky enough to have been the custodian of my 1971 185 for 40 years this summer. Purchased it in 1976 when I was 40 years old, and it has been part of our family for all those years. One of the best aircraft ever made, and it's little brother, the 180 is a fine aircraft also.

What was you grandfathers name and and when did he quit flying it? Having joined the 180/185 club in 1980, I may have ran into him at some of the Texas club fly-ins way back. Our second club President (after Bomber) lives in Georgetown ,TX and I'll bet he knew him. Your a very lucky guy to get this bird from Granpa.
Ron

Hi Ron,

I will look into Beegles as a sort of last resort. Luckily what needs to be done is not that complicated. Thankfully my grandpa is an A&P. We will both be going down to Texas for this summer to get to start some work on the airplane.
The only things that really need to be messed now are the engine and fuel system, and I am confident we can get most of that stuff made up ourself. It is annoying that half of the fuel line parts can't be bought anymore.

My grandpa's name is Harry Coffin, he was an ATPL holder, and retired at northwest on the 747F around 1998 also around the same time he stopped flying 51X. My Uncle Tom Gould also owned a 180, and was part of the Skywagon club around the same time, and lived literally next door to us in Texas.
 
Progress update

Reviewed the logbooks, aircraft was treated with CorrosionX in the wings and the fuselage before being stored. Should be in good shape since it has been in the hanger.

We have found a shop that can replicate the fuel lines we cant make and or purchase pre made from Cessna. Installing them should almost be self explanatory.

The next big challenge is figuring out how to get a good avionic layout going.
The main problem is that the yoke connects in a T shape on these early 185's, and the pretty much shoots down any idea of doing a center stack panel. On the later 185's they switched to a U style connector.
I highly doubt I will be able to find someone to do that, but it is fun to imagine!

Looking at some Garmin stuff, specifically their GTN650/750 and the supported remote mount equipment. Did somebody say over equipped?
 

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Progress update,

I have been at the ranch working on the airplane with my A&P for the last week. We have made solid progress towards getting the aircraft in shape to fly again. First thing we did was opening all of the inspection ports on the wing. We didn't find a bad amount of corrosion, so we will save that task for someone else to fix (such as beegles when I save up a little bit more cash).
We have remade a couple original parts such as the air-box and assembly that is on top of it. I took the time to clean up the surface corrosion off of some parts that were reusable and paint with a zinc-chromate primer. A&P said it looked good, so off to the next few things!

After it is a flyable airplane, I do plan on taking it up to someplace like beegles and having something done like the light 185 project. For now I have a lot of cleaning to do, and my mechanic has a lot of things to fabricate.

Thanks for reading about the skywagon. Currently it has no nickname, I hope to change that pretty quickly! Any suggestions for a new name my fellow pilots of america?
 

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Removing all the dirt dobber nests will get you a few pounds back. All and I mean all exposed round hole needs to be checked for dirt dobbers.
 
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