cessna 182a stabilizer play

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josh shaw

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I am new to this form, but I am looking to purchase a 57 c182a model and on my pre purchase discovered a very small lets call it 1/8 to 1/4 inch up and down play in the horizontal stabilizer two a&p say its ok or normal one does not think there should be any, all input here would be appreciated.
thank you
Josh
 
Is this a 182 with a Jack screw trim? if so, it is permissible to have a little looseness.
They can be repaired by replacing the Jack screw.
There are shouldn't be a looseness in the later version.

I would have the pre-buy listed and an Item to replaced.
 
Thank you for the quick reply, yes I believe this model utilizes the jack screw design however to clarify my question the play is felt when lifting the end of the stabilizer up and down gently (such as a cherokee stabilator preflight check), it was not in the trim systems regular range of motion where play was felt.
 
josh shaw said:
Thank you for the quick reply, yes I believe this model utilizes the jack screw design however to clarify my question the play is felt when lifting the end of the stabilizer up and down gently (such as a cherokee stabilator preflight check), it was not in the trim systems regular range of motion where play was felt.
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Perfectly normal. The more recently you've had it rebuilt, the tighter it will be.

Make sure the "hockey stick" is in tact. It's a structural member just below and infront of the H-stab. - but that may only be on 180's, not 182's I'm not sure.
 
Tom-D said:
Is this a 182 with a Jack screw trim? if so, it is permissible to have a little looseness.
They can be repaired by replacing the Jack screw.
There are shouldn't be a looseness in the later version.

I would have the pre-buy listed and an Item to replaced.
Click to expand...

Does it trim by moving the horizontal stabilizer itself instead of having a trim tab on the elevator?
 
josh shaw said:
I am new to this form, but I am looking to purchase a 57 c182a model and on my pre purchase discovered a very small lets call it 1/8 to 1/4 inch up and down play in the horizontal stabilizer two a&p say its ok or normal one does not think there should be any, all input here would be appreciated.
thank you
Josh
Click to expand...

Heres some interesting stuff
https://backcountrypilot.org/forum/c180-c185-early-c182-ad-nprm-tailcone-horiz-stabilizer-24159
https://support.cessna.com/custsupt/contacts/pubs/ourpdf.pdf?as_id=49452
 
I would advise that a competent A&P have look. There are a couple ways the stabilizer can show looseness.
 
luvflyin said:
Is it a stabilator? I'm confused
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It's not a stabilator. It is a trimmable (movable) horizontal stabilizer with a conventional elevator. Just like a B737 (minus the electric motors, electronics, and MCAS).
 
dmspilot said:
It's not a stabilator. It is a trimmable (movable) horizontal stabilizer with a conventional elevator. Just like a B737 (minus the electric motors, electronics, and MCAS).
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Ah. Did they change that to elevators with trim tabs in later years? I've flown 182's but had many hours in 172's before. I don't recall noticing there weren't trim tabs. I'd a thought I would have noticed
 
luvflyin said:
Ah. Did they change that to elevators with trim tabs in later years? I've flown 182's but had many hours in 172's before. I don't recall noticing there weren't trim tabs. I'd a thought I would have noticed
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Yes. They changed them out in later years.
 
luvflyin said:
Whew. I was beginning to question my powers of observation
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If you look at the older 182s, you notice a notch above the horizontal so it can move up.
50249463207_71d0f623fa_c.jpg
 
luvflyin said:
Ah. Did they change that to elevators with trim tabs in later years? I've flown 182's but had many hours in 172's before. I don't recall noticing there weren't trim tabs. I'd a thought I would have noticed
Click to expand...

Yes, they changed it. Sometime between 1958 and 1962.
 
A good stabilizer will have pretty much no play. The aft spar is hinged via two aluminum brackets that have steel spacers in nylon bushings in the brackets, and AN4 bolts pass through the spacers and the nuts are torqued to 70 inch-pounds. The hinges are supposed to pivot the nylon bushings on the spacer, but some mechanics apparently don't read manuals and leave those bolts a little loose, and the bolts, instead of being in there solidly, pinching the spacers between the aluminum structure, wallow out the hole in the structure, which happens to be very expensive pieces of aluminum angles about five feet long. We had to replace those sometimes. There is no approved repair. No room for it.

Get a mechanic thoroughly familiar with the design to check it. Someone with a bunch of 180/185 experience, since those airplanes use the same system. Those jackscrews can be obscenely expensive to overhaul, too. You want to know what condition all that stuff is in.
 
thank you all for the info I am most likely going to have them perform sel 55 01 since it may become an ad soon prior to moving forward with a purchase, other wise dry country 182 so not much corrosion if any I from what I saw looking at it. If it were a cherokee I would be much more concerned. what I felt was almost inseparable up and down you really had to be paying attention but it was enough for me to ask.
 
@josh shaw

a small amount of play is perfectly normal. I had my jack screw and hinges replaced a dozen years ago or so...because I was worried about the movement...guess what...there was still movement! A bit less, but still movement.

actually...now that I think about it...we didn't replace the jack screw, only the hinges. My A&P at the time, who also flew a straight tail 182, said the one on my plane was just as tight as the replacement that we purchased...so we sent it back.
 
My 180 jackscrews don't have any play. There shouldn't be any noticeable movement when you check it. That's one of the primary preflight items for any plane with a trimming stabilizer.
 
Stewartb said:
My 180 jackscrews don't have any play. There shouldn't be any noticeable movement when you check it. That's one of the primary preflight items for any plane with a trimming stabilizer.
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You're saying that when you grab the tip of the stabilizer you cannot wiggle it up and down whatsoever?
 
I was taught to grab each side of the stabilizer and lift it firmly enough to flex the skins to check for tail integrity. I always have. I'd need a mircrometer at the jackscrew to measure any movement. I sure can't see any.

I do the same on my Cub and there is a small amount of play. I know where and why and I pay close attention to it. But that plane has a linear actuator instead of a jackscrew.
 
josh shaw said:
thank you all for the info I am most likely going to have them perform sel 55 01 since it may become an ad soon prior to moving forward with a purchase, other wise dry country 182 so not much corrosion if any I from what I saw looking at it. If it were a cherokee I would be much more concerned. what I felt was almost inseparable up and down you really had to be paying attention but it was enough for me to ask.
Click to expand...

Your a wise buyer.
 
dmspilot said:
It's not a stabilator. It is a trimmable (movable) horizontal stabilizer with a conventional elevator. Just like a B737 (minus the electric motors, electronics, and MCAS).
Click to expand...
And like a Cub, too! :D

dmspilot said:
Yes, they changed it. Sometime between 1958 and 1962.
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All 180s and 185 have the jackscrew-driven adjustable stabilizer. The 182 had it through the 182D (1961 model). Beginning with the 1962 182E, it was a fixed stabilizer with conventional trim tab. That was also the first year of the widened fuselage with "Omni-Vision" rear cabin windows.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
2 AMU's isn't THAT bad. https://www.mcfarlaneaviation.com/products/product/1111/
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It can be a lot more than that if that aluminum bracket at the bottom is cracked or corroded. Last time I checked on the prices of those things, one side was over $10K and the other was around $7K. It reflects the need to get them made in small numbers, since those airplanes haven't been built for over 35 years.

I have overhauled several pairs of those things. The McFarlane stuff is good. I just wish they were making that bracket.
 
Dan Thomas said:
I just wish they were making that bracket.
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I seem to recall reading something a number of years ago several people did an owner produced part with those brackets then sold the approval docs. Perhaps the person who bought them got a PMA on them??
 
josh shaw said:
thank you all for the info I am most likely going to have them perform sel 55 01 since it may become an ad soon
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If it ain't a AD, It won't be. 60 years should be enough time to figure it out.
Ain't you glad that the POA'ers had you ready to spend the cash, prior to the A&Ps opinion.

Not a single POA'er laid eyes on the stab, yet they all knew what parts you needed. :)
 
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Stewartb said:
I was taught to grab each side of the stabilizer and lift it firmly enough to flex the skins to check for tail integrity. I always have. I'd need a mircrometer at the jackscrew to measure any movement. I sure can't see any.

I do the same on my Cub and there is a small amount of play. I know where and why and I pay close attention to it. But that plane has a linear actuator instead of a jackscrew.
Click to expand...

Cessna has a specification for play at the jackscrews. IIRC, it's .019" max with no more than .010" difference between the left and right sides. But, of course, if the jackscrews aren't synchonized the play can be masked. Rigging that system is lots of fun.

Edit: found the reference.



upload_2020-8-20_19-56-8.png
 
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Bell206 said:
I seem to recall reading something a number of years ago several people did an owner produced part with those brackets then sold the approval docs. Perhaps the person who bought them got a PMA on them??
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I did a lot of Googling looking for those part numbers. Never found anything that wasn't OEM.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Experience with a lot of 180/185s, Tom.
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did you know this one?
You probably scared the guy away from the best aircraft they'll find.
with a out single look. but that's typical.
 
Tom-D said:
did you know this one?
You probably scared the guy away from the best aircraft they'll find.
with a out single look. but that's typical.
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I warned him what to look for. I guess that's bad, huh? If he or his mechanic finds what I suggested was possible, it could turn into a really expensive old 182.
 
Dan Thomas said:
I warned him what to look for. I guess that's bad, huh? If he or his mechanic finds what I suggested was possible, it could turn into a really expensive old 182.
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Sure didn't sound that way, when you start quoting part numbers.
You didn't even the color the aircraft, and do knew all about it.

this post was simply a question about looseness, you were quoting part numbers without knowing if the aircraft without knowing anything about the aircraft.
Did you know if the jack was replaced? hell no, just run your mouth with out knowing anything about the aircraft.
 
Tom-D said:
Sure didn't sound that way, when you start quoting part numbers.
You didn't even the color the aircraft, and do knew all about it.

this post was simply a question about looseness, you were quoting part numbers without knowing if the aircraft without knowing anything about the aircraft.
Did you know if the jack was replaced? hell no, just run your mouth with out knowing anything about the aircraft.
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He was just mentioning stuff that *could* be wrong and would be worth checking... not that it was definitely broken.
 
Tom-D said:
Sure didn't sound that way, when you start quoting part numbers.
You didn't even the color the aircraft, and do knew all about it.

this post was simply a question about looseness, you were quoting part numbers without knowing if the aircraft without knowing anything about the aircraft.
Did you know if the jack was replaced? hell no, just run your mouth with out knowing anything about the aircraft.
Click to expand...
Go back and find where I quoted part numbers.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
He was just mentioning stuff that *could* be wrong and would be worth checking... not that it was definitely broken.
Click to expand...
wouldn't it be best to get a real A&P involve, before you run off.
 
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