Cessna 182 Cowl Flap

[OkieFlyer]

I already have thread going about this in Hangar Talk, but I thought I'd post here also.

I lost a right hand cowl flap on my 1962 C-182E a couple days ago. I have not had much luck locating one at this point, and I could use all the help I can get. I've checked with Texas Air Salvage and they have one they're asking $1500 for. Checked with Beegles out of Greely, Co, didn't have one. I've searched the p/n online with no good results.

If you know where one might be, know of a salvage outfit that I could check with, or any other kind of lead, please let me know.

Thank you!!!

 

[GRG55]

That picture sort of looks like selling one kidney to raise money for avgas

"...I've checked with Texas Air Salvage and they have one they're asking $1500 for..."
I did a quick bit of ratio math and this means if you remove all the screws & bolts and separate the parts the rest of your 182 is worth more than a new Cirrus SR22.

 

[Clip4]

call these folks http://www.robairrepair.com/

 

[Plano Pilot]

Try http://www.asod.com/

 

[OkieFlyer]

That picture sort of looks like selling one kidney to raise money for avgas

"...I've checked with Texas Air Salvage and they have one they're asking $1500 for..."
I did a quick bit of ratio math and this means if you remove all the screws & bolts and separate the parts the rest of your 182 is worth more than a new Cirrus SR22.

Funny you say that. The thought actually crossed my mind to head out to the hangar and start disassembling parts. At those prices, I should be able to buy that C-310 I've been wanting, and a couple years worth of avgas.

call these folks http://www.robairrepair.com/

Try http://www.asod.com/

Thank you both. I've give em' a shout.

 

[Stewartb]

Skywagoncity.com

 

[pigpenracing]

CLEAN THAT BELLY!

 

[Jeff Cutler]

http://www.wentworthaircraft.com/

 

[OkieFlyer]

CLEAN THAT BELLY!

If it ain't dirty, you ain't been flyin'!

 

[nrpetersen]

Looks like it would be a fairly straight forward owner produce able part assuming you could just mirror image the remaining LH part. Be a good chance to learn metal forming with an English wheel.

 

[OkieFlyer]

Yeah, that has been mentioned, and I may end up having to do it. The curves on the inner piece of aluminum looks a little complicated, but as someone mentioned over in the hangar talk thread, the local EAA chapter may have some metal shaping tools and some know-how.

 

[Dan Thomas]

Looks like it would be a fairly straight forward owner produce able part assuming you could just mirror image the remaining LH part. Be a good chance to learn metal forming with an English wheel.

There are two layers to it, and the inside one has been stamped from softer aluminum (annealed) and then heat-treated. Big project to duplicate it.

The hinge on the other flap should be checked, too; I'd bet that it's worn enough to fall off soon, too. Those things need checking at every annual.

 

[avongil]

is this the part you need:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cessna-R182...ash=item35ff348753:g:bF0AAOSwqbZXEV98&vxp=mtr

 

[James331]

CLEAN THAT BELLY!

That!!

Sweet jesus man!

 

[OkieFlyer]

is this the part you need:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cessna-R182...ash=item35ff348753:g:bF0AAOSwqbZXEV98&vxp=mtr

It's the right thing, but that one is for a later model 182, and is a little different. Thank you very much, though.

 

[OkieFlyer]

That!!

Sweet jesus man!

Seriously? You guys gonna kick a man while he's down? Firstly, all the brown from the exhaust pipe back, is stained and will never come off without removing the paint. Secondly, if you've ever been to this part of the world in the spring, you'd know that it only takes one flight to splatter bugs all over everything. Thirdly, I taxi to and from my hangar on gravel and grass. And lastly, that paint job is from the same year my 64 year old dad graduated from high school, and is not in very good shape. Cut me a little slack will ya?

 

[pigpenracing]

Seriously? You guys gonna kick a man while he's down? Firstly, all the brown from the exhaust pipe back, is stained and will never come off without removing the paint. Secondly, if you've ever been to this part of the world in the spring, you'd know that it only takes one flight to splatter bugs all over everything. Thirdly, I taxi to and from my hangar on gravel and grass. And lastly, that paint job is from the same year my 64 year old dad graduated from high school, and is not in very good shape. Cut me a little slack will ya?

Are you kidding me? You just are not using the right cleaner. Go buy a bottle of Spray 9 and it will take that exhaust stain right off without using a rag. My 1973 Cessna has original paint and the bottom is as clean as the top. Or give me your address and I will send you a bottle free. The last guy that said he had exhaust stains that will not come off almost got down on his knees for me when I gave him some spray 9...

 

[pigpenracing]

 

[Clip4]

is this the part you need:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cessna-R182...ash=item35ff348753:g:bF0AAOSwqbZXEV98&vxp=mtr

That part is off a 1978 or later 182RG.

 

[James331]

Seriously? You guys gonna kick a man while he's down? Firstly, all the brown from the exhaust pipe back, is stained and will never come off without removing the paint. Secondly, if you've ever been to this part of the world in the spring, you'd know that it only takes one flight to splatter bugs all over everything. Thirdly, I taxi to and from my hangar on gravel and grass. And lastly, that paint job is from the same year my 64 year old dad graduated from high school, and is not in very good shape. Cut me a little slack will ya?

Why do you think for cowl flap left, it was like "man I can't be around this dirty belly anymore, IM OUT!"

All jokes aside, I'd be looking around eBay and also on barnstormers and the like.

 

[ktup-flyer]

Would this work? https://www.ebay.com/p/?iid=132036523039&lpid=82&&&ul_noapp=true&chn=ps

 

[nrpetersen]

Probably the inner layer is from 2024-T0 aluminum which is easily formed in a wood die with a rubber mallet (probably how it was done in the first place!). The problem will be to find someone that can heat treat it. Heat to 920 degF +/- 20 degF) for a few minutes and then quench in cold water. Wait half a day & it will be hard like 2024-T3. There's very little distortion in this process. The outer layer can be done with either alloy although anything T-0 should be heat treated. Your EAA friends could probably do it but it might take a lot of beer! It would be a fun challenge to a sheet metal guy.

 

[avongil]

I feel your pain, it is very difficult to find an early 182 rh cowl flap.

 

[OkieFlyer]

Why do you think for cowl flap left, it was like "man I can't be around this dirty belly anymore, IM OUT!"

All jokes aside, I'd be looking around eBay and also on barnstormers and the like.

Well, if that's the case, that cowl flap needed to go. Don't want no primadonna parts on my airplane. The 182 ain't no sissy pavement plane. We get dirty baby!

Heck yeah, I've been ebaying like a mother trucker. I've called everybody that has been mentioned, plus a few today. Even called people that the people that were mentioned recommended. Pretty much all the parts guys are like, "the right hand one? Dang, that's going to be hard to come by. That's the one that always breaks."

Thank ya.

 

[OkieFlyer]

Probably the inner layer is from 2024-T0 aluminum which is easily formed in a wood die with a rubber mallet (probably how it was done in the first place!). The problem will be to find someone that can heat treat it. Heat to 920 degF +/- 20 degF) for a few minutes and then quench in cold water. Wait half a day & it will be hard like 2024-T3. There's very little distortion in this process. The outer layer can be done with either alloy although anything T-0 should be heat treated. Your EAA friends could probably do it but it might take a lot of beer! It would be a fun challenge to a sheet metal guy.

If one doesn't turn up pretty soon, I certainly may give it a shot. Heck, I'm pretty confident I could put something together to heat treat, but the shaping would be a challenge for sure.

I did hammer this part out myself a few months ago. I used fairly soft aluminum though.

BTW, I make my own beer, 5 gallons at a time. Got that covered

 

[nrpetersen]

Andrew - How thick is the metal? I have lots of 2024-TO and left over from earlier attempts to build a Pazmany PL-2. Sounds like there is a production run needed but you'd have to stay with the owner produced parts limitation. What alloy and heat treat did you beat that part out of? T-0 alum is pretty soft. And I have access to an English Wheel.

 

[weirdjim]

I'm more curious from an engineering point of view. WHY did they use two pieces of metal in the first place, and if they did, WHY are the metals dissimilar? Just curious.

Jim

 

[OkieFlyer]

Andrew - How thick is the metal? I have lots of 2024-TO and left over from earlier attempts to build a Pazmany PL-2. Sounds like there is a production run needed but you'd have to stay with the owner produced parts limitation. What alloy and heat treat did you beat that part out of? T-0 alum is pretty soft. And I have access to an English Wheel.

I wish I could tell you. I really don't know anything about metal.

The aluminum I used for the part in the earlier picture was just some scrap laying around at work and I shaped it with a ball peen hammer, vice grips, and the handle end of a big screwdriver, lol. I couldn't tell you what kind of aluminum it is. Sorry.

Here's is an example of the part, although this is a left hand flap. A RH flap is a mirror image.

 

[nrpetersen]

I'm more curious from an engineering point of view. WHY did they use two pieces of metal in the first place, and if they did, WHY are the metals dissimilar? Just curious.

Jim

Probably to make the part torsionally stiff. And the metal alloys are identical (2024) but the initial heat treats (T3 vs T-0) are different. Very little distortion is needed for the outer part so it could be formed directly, but with -0 they could beat the inner part into a female mold with a rubber male "die". The female mold is probably made of Kirksite (sp?) or even of Benelex which is a hard tooling masonite.

Who knows they may have to make a new die part to make a new part. Interesting that the left one fails first consistently. Not an airplane structure knowledgeable person but I was a mech engineer 16 years ago.....

Actually the OP's hammered part looks pretty good.

 

[Dan Thomas]

Interesting that the left one fails first consistently.

You mean the right one. The exhaust is ahead of it, and the constant hammering of the sound against it fatigues it. The exhaust itself has numerous corrosive compounds in it, too.

 

[GRG55]

I'm more curious from an engineering point of view. WHY did they use two pieces of metal in the first place, and if they did, WHY are the metals dissimilar? Just curious.

Jim

Can't answer for the dissimilar metals, but may be able to shed some light on first question. The cowl flaps on my aircraft are also made from two pieces. Outer piece is a smooth piece of aluminum with a slight curvature, flush with and follows the shape of the bottom cowl when closed. The inner piece is stamped in a box shape with flanges and the two pieces are riveted together. Makes for a light, but stiff assembly.

 

[denverpilot]

Probably to make the part torsionally stiff. And the metal alloys are identical (2024) but the initial heat treats (T3 vs T-0) are different. Very little distortion is needed for the outer part so it could be formed directly, but with -0 they could beat the inner part into a female mold with a rubber male "die". The female mold is probably made of Kirksite (sp?) or even of Benelex which is a hard tooling masonite.

Who knows they may have to make a new die part to make a new part. Interesting that the left one fails first consistently. Not an airplane structure knowledgeable person but I was a mech engineer 16 years ago.....

Actually the OP's hammered part looks pretty good.

You mean the right one. The exhaust is ahead of it, and the constant hammering of the sound against it fatigues it. The exhaust itself has numerous corrosive compounds in it, too.

Usually the cowl flap itself doesn't fail, the piano hinge holding it on, does. I'd have to go look close at the photo but I bet the cowl half of the hinge is still there.

 

[robert lomax]

and it seems that,,, just because i have been reading this thread,,,,
i got a facebook post of cowl flaps for sale on ebay!!

wont they just leave me alone???

 

[OkieFlyer]

Usually the cowl flap itself doesn't fail, the piano hinge holding it on, does. I'd have to go look close at the photo but I bet the cowl half of the hinge is still there.

Most definitely. The hinge just blew apart. I wish I cold just put out an APB and tell people where to send the white aluminum thing that fell from the sky. I'll bet you a hunnerd dollar bill that my cowl flap is sitting in a field somewhere, completely intact. Unfortunately, the person that comes across it will have no idea that they could sell it for a grand.

and it seems that,,, just because i have been reading this thread,,,,
i got a facebook post of cowl flaps for sale on ebay!!

wont they just leave me alone???

My bad, Lomax.

 

[Yellowbird]

A timely post, for me at least. I took a look at mine (1974 Cardinal) yesterday - it had been quietly nagging me since noting on my last flight a few weeks ago that one of the hinge pins had worked loose. What I found was that the hinges on both flaps were basically shot, with four hinge segments worn away on one side and seven gone on the other.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Who is doing the annuals on these planes?

Those cowl flaps just don't suddenly fail.

 

[OkieFlyer]

Who is doing the annuals on these planes?

Those cowl flaps just don't suddenly fail.

It was a 55 year old cowl flap. No sense putting the blame on the A&P/IA.

 

[Doc Holliday]

It was a 55 year old cowl flap. No sense putting the blame on the A&P.

Point is this: that cowl flap didn't fail suddenly. Rivets were working loose. A simple visual inspection followed by moving the unit by hand would have shown the problem. And inspecting that is part of the annual.

 

[OkieFlyer]

Point is this: that cowl flap didn't fail suddenly. Rivets were working loose. A simple visual inspection followed by moving the unit by hand would have shown the problem. And inspecting that is part of the annual.

A lot can happen in the 11 months since annual. I won't put it on the A&P/IA. Besides, I cleaned the entire cowl inside and out, including the flaps themselves, by hand myself. I lubricated them myself too. Didn't see anything obvious at the time. Whether or not the IA inspected them properly, I haven't looked at them closely since then. The fault is mine.

 

[Doc Holliday]

A lot can happen in the 11 months since annual. I won't put it on the A&P/IA. Besides, I cleaned the entire cowl inside and out, including the flaps themselves, by hand myself. I lubricated them myself too. Didn't see anything obvious at the time. Whether or not the IA inspected them properly, I haven't looked at them closely since then. The fault is mine.

Of course the fault is yours, you are the owner.

But you are in denial as to what happened, it wasn't a sudden failure.

Wonder what else will fail "suddenly" on your plane as well.