Cessna 150 Rotax Conversion

Because you must innovate or die! If you're flying around in a bombproof design like an old O-200, which is about as simple as you can make 100hp, then you're flying around behind 1940s technology and the school children and puppies are all in danger, because you failed to demand aeronautical innovation from your powerplant! (Or so I've been told.)

Huh? How about some solid reliability statistics to back up that statement? That is if I understand the statement correctly.

I said earlier in the thread that if someone can submit substantial data that proves the reliability of the Rotax vs the knowns from Lyc & Cont., I will re examine my position.
 
I said earlier in the thread that if someone can submit substantial data that proves the reliability of the Rotax vs the knowns from Lyc & Cont., I will re examine my position.
Substantial data on that sort of thing seems to be hard to come by. But one thing I did find interesting was a post on a another forum that quoted some build stats from a few years back. That year Lycoming reported they built 1500 new engines. The same year Rotax produced 14,000 aviation engines. Now obviously Lycoming has been making aircraft engines for a long time so there are a ton of them out there.

Then consider how many airplanes you see at airports that haven't moved in years. Probably quite a few more Lycoming engines in that group than Rotax. So yeah there are more Lycoming out there but how many of them don't fly? Engines that don't fly, don't fail. Then factor in that in recent years anyway, Rotax is producing almost 10 times as many new engines as Lycoming. That's a lot more new engines in field every year flying. And yet I'm not aware of any dramatic spike in NTSB reports that show Rotax power. I admit none of that qualifies as substantial data. But to me just it doesn't seem likely that an engine which is growing in numbers at almost 10x the rate but is also so much less reliable than the tried and true Lycoming wouldn't be showing up in NTSB reports in alarming numbers.
 
Sorry, but we’re gonna have to come up with data much more scientific than that in order prove anything one way or another. It needs to be reduced to a parameter something like power failures per flight hour.
 
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Sorry, but we’re gonna have to come up with data much more scientific than that in order prove anything one way or another. It needs to be reduced to a parameter something like power failures per flight hour.

It has been posted on this forum multiple times already ..
https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/2013/ar-2013-107_research/

That’s from Australian equivalent of NTSB ... on the other hand can you post something that actually suggests that legacy engines are more reliable or is it just you gut feeling ?
 
It has been posted on this forum multiple times already ..
https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/2013/ar-2013-107_research/

That’s from Australian equivalent of NTSB ... on the other hand can you post something that actually suggests that legacy engines are more reliable or is it just you gut feeling ?

I have no dog in this hunt. I am looking for data to indicate whatever it indicates. So far I haven’t seen data that reliably indicates anything one way or the other. If reasonably conclusive data is compiled and presented, I will take my position at that time.

As far as data in the link provided, it is an indication, but not enough detail to be conclusive. For instance, how many engines in each group are rebuilt, if so how many times? The data group also is limited.

The initial indication suggests that the Model airplane engine is as reliable as the real aircraft engine, but the the study is not even close to being comprehensive.

What about the gearbox? Is it part of the failure data? Gearbox failure has the same result as engine failure.

I am still looking for the comprehensive study.
 
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I am still looking for the comprehensive study.
I don't think you're going to find one. In fact, I don't think one could be done with the general GA population, simply because there is no reporting mechanism for total hours flown. The data simply doesn't exist in any one place, or even a collection of places. There are statistical estimates, but I don't think we really have any way of knowing how accurate they are.

What I do know is this: If Rotax engines (including gearboxes, of course) were unreliable, they wouldn't be used in new designs or in production aircraft. Yet we see new aircraft introduced all the time that do use the Rotax 912 family, including its newer versions like the 912iS Sport and so on. Compare that to the number of new aircraft designs that use the O-200-D, if you can find any.

Rotax isn't really breaking new ground. Yes, they run at higher RPM than traditional, older aircraft engine designs, for the exact same reasons automobile engines do. They use water cooling for the cylinder heads to control head temperatures and allow tighter tolerances so we don't have to keep dumping oil into the engine, only to see it used to coat the underside of the plane. The gearbox they use is obviously up to the task, or you'd hear about frequent failures. The problems you do hear about seem mostly related to operator error or maintenance deficiencies. Don't idle it at under 2K RPM, and if you burn leaded gas, it's going to take more frequent maintenance to clean the sludge out of your engine.

By all means, if you're afraid of the Rotax, don't use it. There are thousands who will, and do every day, and they're not falling out of the sky.
 
The bottom line is the Rotax engines are not some kind of auto conversions with , at most, few hundred units in the field.
It is a company that has been manufacturing aircraft engines for close to 40 years now and has sold something close to 40 000 of them or so.
Yeah, the flight profile these engines are being used for ( mostly VFR etc ) is somewhat limited but within that profile these engines are just as reliable as anything else out there.
 
What about the gearbox? Is it part of the failure data? Gearbox failure has the same result as engine failure.

I am still looking for the comprehensive study.
From the report quoted above:
During this process, occurrences are classified by the ATSB occurrence type taxonomy. This taxonomy classifies an engine failure or malfunction as being an engine malfunction that results in a total engine failure, a loss of engine power or is rough running. Technical faults that results in an engine failure or malfunction include:

  • reports of total power loss of an engine
  • a loss of power that limits aircraft performance
  • a rough running engine (coughing, spluttering, etc)
  • observations of abnormal sights, sounds or vibrations by a crew member
  • any mechanical issue that results in an engine shutdown (excluding engine shutdowns based solely on abnormal engine indications).
A loss of engine power due to fuel exhaustion or starvation is not coded an engine failure or malfunction.
No they don't specifically call out gearbox failure, but it sure seems like a gearbox failure would result in a loss of power that limits aircraft performance. Shrug.
 
What I do know is this: If Rotax engines (including gearboxes, of course) were unreliable, they wouldn't be used in new designs or in production aircraft. Yet we see new aircraft introduced all the time that do use the Rotax 912 family, including its newer versions like the 912iS Sport and so on. Compare that to the number of new aircraft designs that use the O-200-D, if you can find any.
Speaking of Rotax gearboxes, the following plot shows how often given systems are at fault in fixed-wing EAB accidents (1998-2017). The yellow bars show the results for Non-Certified Four-Stroke engines, which includes the Rotax 912 and 914.

Notice the results for "Reduction Drive Systems"... there ARE no Rotax 912 gearbox failures in my database.
engine_causes.jpg

Problems with cooling are pretty rare, too....

Ron Wanttaja
 
The bottom line is the Rotax engines are not some kind of auto conversions with , at most, few hundred units in the field.
In fact, based on the FAA registry, there are more Rotax 912s in fixed-wing EAB aircraft than Volkswagens and Subarus combined. In fact, other than VW and Subarus, none of the other conversions gets into three figures.

Looking at the overall FAA registry, there are over 4,000 aircraft specifically listed with Rotax 912 engines.

Ron Wanttaja
 
Speaking of Rotax gearboxes, the following plot shows how often given systems are at fault in fixed-wing EAB accidents (1998-2017). The yellow bars show the results for Non-Certified Four-Stroke engines, which includes the Rotax 912 and 914.

Notice the results for "Reduction Drive Systems"... there ARE no Rotax 912 gearbox failures in my database.
engine_causes.jpg

Problems with cooling are pretty rare, too....

Ron Wanttaja

The numbers are good, but I would feel much more comfortable if I were to see the Bibliography. What is the source of the Data?
 
The numbers are good, but I would feel much more comfortable if I were to see the Bibliography. What is the source of the Data?
Ultimate source of the data is the NTSB accident database. I extract the homebuilt accidents into my own database, then assess each one and assign what I call an "Initiator" to each accident. This is the first major failure (mechanical or human) that started the accident process (I don't use the NTSB Probable Cause). I extract a considerable number of fields from the NTSB record, and add more information to each record to categorize the data. For instance, I look at the engine involved in each accident (where the NTSB provides it) and assess what general category (Traditional Certified, Auto Conversion, etc.) the engine belongs in. I also make an assessment as to whether the plane was owned by the original builder at the time of the accident, compute average utilization rates (rough calculation), etc.

I also assess the NTSB report for documentation errors. Accidents labeled "homebuilt" are often not EAB-licensed aircraft (Set the "Amateur-Built" flag to "yes" and use "Boeing" as the aircraft type, for an online search). I exclude these, and examine the others to find the homebuilt accidents that were not labeled properly.

My homebuilt database currently includes 4041 EAB accidents.

I have run similar analyses for comparison purposes on common GA aircraft, such as the Cessna 172, Cessna 210, Piper PA-28, Cirrus, Bonanza, etc.

Ron Wanttaja
 
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Outstanding Ron! You obviously have put a lot of heart and energy into this and have done a good job given the limited data available to you. Is there any way to find and associate flight time data?
 
I want you all to know that I teach college level statistics and we have been talking about hypothesis testing in class. We examined this thread in class last night and my students are “appreciative” of our nerdy discussions here :lol:
 
There are a bunch of strings like this on many aviation forums, both for and against Rotax. I bought a Rotax-engine'd plane 8 months ago. Regarding noise... it is noisy especially when sitting inside a carbon fiber snare drum (CTLSi). However, it isn't noisier as any 172 or 152 I used to fly when I was a kid.

Since God invented the noise cancelling headset, that weakness is gone... meaning totally gone. I cannot believe how effective noise cancelling headsets are. A great leap in technology since I re-entered the pilot force after a 38 years absence. Gas economy... awesome. At an honest 3.5 gals/hour burn I can fly over the ground at an honest 97 knots. At 5.0 gals/hour, about 112 knots. And, I burn Mogas, a $2/gal savings. And I just put oil in for the very first time the other day... just a tiny amount. In effect, the plane burns as much as any modern car... almost none.

I just filled up my tanks the other night getting ready for the epic OSH trip (Damned weather) and I saved about $60 vs 100LL, enough savings for an "I made it to OSH and Back" T-shirt, an OSH mug and an OSH hula dancer figurine for my dashboard. Now that is some value.

And, no Carb Heat, which is a nice feature during the GUMPS check. The other day I was taxiing down a 5,000' taxi way on a hot muggy day, the wind was behind me and the Temps went from firmly in the green to "just" inside the yellow line. I did my runup (3,600 RPM) and the temps went back to green. As soon as I took off, all back to normal. I believe Lycoming, Conti and Rotax all deserve a solid place in the plane world and there are pros and cons to each. Nothing wrong with that, I would happily fly in any plane with any of those powerplants.
 
Hi.

Don't idle it at under 2K RPM...
You seem to post things that actually point to you knowing that there is problem. Why would you recommend this if there is no problem? You suggest that pilots should do a high speed taxi?
Next thing you are likely to say is that 2k RPM is the Idle, or recommended speed / RPM and you'd be wrong, the only time is recommended to be above 2000 is to warm it up for 2 minutes to 122 F and only after that you can increase to above 2500 RPM , or below, and basically start taxiing, take off.

and if you burn leaded gas, it's going to take more frequent maintenance to clean the sludge out of your engine.
And what would you recommend if this occurs in acft that is basically brand new, before the first maintenance, and still does it 300 hours later?

And just for you to know, and for further knowledge that you may benefit from, not only the taxi was fast enough to overtake a Cirusscus, only chance you get you might as well take it, and while holding Short for about 30 seconds, the brake was on and 4000 RPM and it still overheated.

Here are the facts, a problem exists and does not matter how many excuses, and statistics some are coming up with, it needs to be fixed.
 
Hi.


You seem to post things that actually point to you knowing that there is problem. Why would you recommend this if there is no problem? You suggest that pilots should do a high speed taxi?
Next thing you are likely to say is that 2k RPM is the Idle, or recommended speed / RPM and you'd be wrong, the only time is recommended to be above 2000 is to warm it up for 2 minutes to 122 F and only after that you can increase to above 2500 RPM , or below, and basically start taxiing, take off.


And what would you recommend if this occurs in acft that is basically brand new, before the first maintenance, and still does it 300 hours later?

And just for you to know, and for further knowledge that you may benefit from, not only the taxi was fast enough to overtake a Cirusscus, only chance you get you might as well take it, and while holding Short for about 30 seconds, the brake was on and 4000 RPM and it still overheated.

Here are the facts, a problem exists and does not matter how many excuses, and statistics some are coming up with, it needs to be fixed.

You are the only one in this thread who seems to be having any overheating problems whatsoever with the Rotax. There have been several others with evidence to the contrary, as well as an internet full of favorable support for Rotax engines. Not to point fingers, but the common denominator in all of your Rotax overheating anecdotes has been: the operator.
 
Outstanding Ron! You obviously have put a lot of heart and energy into this and have done a good job given the limited data available to you. Is there any way to find and associate flight time data?
It's difficult, especially considering the various sources of data.

The FAA General Aviation Survey says the typical homebuilt flies about 48 hours a year, while the typical 4-seat GA aircraft flies 94 hours. However, much of that GA aircraft time is for other than personal flight. For instance, the 2017 survey says personal flying in GA aircraft totaled about 7.8 million hours.... but the OTHER than personal-flight total is about 13.9 million. In comparison, the vast majority of EAB flights are personal...except in certain limited circumstances, they cannot be operated for hire or for business. Comparing flight hours is apples to oranges.

The FAA Survey results are based on the input from the survey, with the fleet size taken from the FAA registry. And hence, another problem. The process involves sending out a number of surveys to registered owners, and basing their calculations on the surveys returned.

Let's say they get responses from 60% of the EAB owners. A bit over half of the respondents say they are actively flying, with the remainder saying their plane is inactive. The FAA does the math, and decrees that, say, 58% of of EAB aircraft are active.

All well and good. Well, what about the 40 surveys sent out that DIDN'T get a response? They are ignored. So the FAA takes that 58% figure, multiplies it by the ~26,000 EAB aircraft listed in the FAA registry, and declares that 15,000 homebuilts are active. The survey says the average active EAB flies 48 hours a year, so the FAA computes that homebuilts flew 720,000 hours that year.

Not a bad process...when the FAA isn't making a separate effort to deregister inactive aircraft.

And how do they do that? By de-registering aircraft whose owners don't respond to a mailing almost identical to the survey.

Imagine, then, the FAA deregistering that 40% of survey targets who don't respond. All the computations are based on surveys that ARE returned, so the initial survey result is the same...58% of the EAB aircraft active, flying 48 hours per year.

But now, the FAA registry shows 22,000 EAB aircraft, vs. the 26,000 before because of all the deregistrations. The FAA AGAIN multiples the 22,000 by 58%, and says there are now 12,760 EAB aircraft. Multiply by 48 hours per year, and the EAB world flew 612,000 hours...a steep drop.

In reality, both cases had the SAME NUMBER OF ACTIVE AIRCRAFT, and about the same number of hours. The real-world inactive aircraft were (mostly) not included in the original survey, but the deregistration process produces an artificial drop in the fleet size, which the survey DOES utilize.

From 2010 to 2013, 23% of the US EAB fleet was removed from the registry. During the same period, the "active aircraft" percentage for the EAB aircraft in the FAA survey rose by just two percentage points. From 58% to 60%. The fact that ~7,000 inactive EAB aircraft were removed from the roster doesn't affect the results at all.

I personally got involved in this in 2013, at the peak of the deregistration program. The fatal accident rate for the EAB fleet had skyrocketed, and the FAA wanted to know why. It jumped because of the deregistration process...there were the same number of fatalities, but the OFFICIAL number of homebuilts had dropped by 23% due to the deregistration process. Note, AGAIN, the real-world number of active homebuilts hadn't really changed. But because of the combination of incompatible processes and a near-usual number of fatalities, it showed an artificial rise in the fatality rate.

Here's a plot that I showed the FAA at a meeting in 2013. Note, that, again, the FAA show more fatal EAB accidents because they count ultralights, SLSAs, ELSAs, an other aircraft as Experimental Amateur-Built.
fatal_accidents.jpg


So yes, I'm not too fired up about attempts to determine an accident rate per flight hour with the currently-available data. Computing the total flight hours for the fleet is fraught with the problems I mention above.

As I mention above, I do make a ROUGH CALCULATION on the yearly homebuilt utilization, and it does come in close to the FAA survey estimate (50.2 hours/year). Emphasis on rough...basically taking the aircraft total time when the accident occurred (when the NTSB report includes it), the date of the accident, and the "Model Year" of the aircraft.

That should make LolPilot's statistics students cringe. Just the fact that the model year is an integer throws the results around wildly.

In my defense, I don't use it in any external calculation. My assumption is that the integer model year issue balances out... that there are probably about as many airplanes completed EARLY in the model year, as the late. I basically use it to compare the approximate yearly utilization rate for different homebuilt models.

Finally, I do incorporate the median pilot total flight hours into my analysis. It does make a significant impact. For instance, the rate of what I call Pilot Miscontrol (stick-and-rudder errors by the pilot, vs. errors in judgement) is lower than the Cessna 172...but the median total flight time for pilots involved in homebuilt accidents is more than twice as high.
miscontrol2.jpg


Ron Wanttaja
 
Hi Sooner.
..the Temps went from firmly in the green to "just" inside the yellow line.
Here is another honest operator, give it 2 more minutes, a couple of more degrees and you are red line.


You are the only one in this thread who seems to be having any overheating problems whatsoever with the Rotax. There have been several others with evidence to the contrary, as well as an internet full of favorable support for Rotax engines. Not to point fingers, but the common denominator in all of your Rotax overheating anecdotes has been: the operator.
You can do all the selective reading, and denying but the facts are that this is a problem.
If you want to deny that this is a problem and take off in an unsafe condition, destroy your plane and possibility yourself, and worse kill someone on the ground, go for it, I would not recommend it.
The most likely scenario, and I've seen it many times, is that people tend to not pay attention to the problem, deny it, or just ignore it, none are acceptable to me.
 
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You seem to post things that actually point to you knowing that there is problem. Why would you recommend this if there is no problem? You suggest that pilots should do a high speed taxi?
Next thing you are likely to say is that 2k RPM is the Idle, or recommended speed / RPM and you'd be wrong, the only time is recommended to be above 2000 is to warm it up for 2 minutes to 122 F and only after that you can increase to above 2500 RPM , or below, and basically start taxiing, take off.
Not to be blunt, but what in the world are you talking about? Where did I ever say there is a problem with Rotax engines? Have you even read the operating manual for the airplane you're flying? 2000 RPM is well under half that at the prop. You're not going to be doing any high speed taxi at that speed. In my plane, the yellow arc is from 1800 down. It's better to keep it at or above 2000 if you can. That's no more a "problem" than needing to hand-prop a Continental that doesn't have a starter. It's not a problem, it's an operating procedure.

There are operating and maintenance procedures specific to the Rotax 912. How to start it, how to run it, how to pitch the prop, how often to change oil and inspect and clean the gearbox and the carburetors and change the coolant and and all of that. It's no mystery. It is documented, in excruciatingly fine detail, in the freely available Rotax maintenance manuals. I'm not familiar with the POH of every airplane out there that has a Rotax engine, but I know what mine says, and if you follow those procedures everything works just peachy-fine.

And what would you recommend if this occurs in acft that is basically brand new, before the first maintenance, and still does it 300 hours later?
Does what? Are you still talking about overheating? I'd recommend that you have someone qualified to troubleshoot and repair a Rotax 912 series engine figure out what is wrong with that engine or airframe.

And just for you to know, and for further knowledge that you may benefit from, not only the taxi was fast enough to overtake a Cirusscus, only chance you get you might as well take it, and while holding Short for about 30 seconds, the brake was on and 4000 RPM and it still overheated.

Here are the facts, a problem exists and does not matter how many excuses, and statistics some are coming up with, it needs to be fixed.
Much of what you say makes no sense whatsoever. 4000 RPM on the ground? That's what we call the run-up, and yeah, you really don't want to be doing that for much longer than you have to -- just like you wouldn't keep a Lycoming or Continental at full throttle on the ground. More to the point, if you were that much out of your element, what the hell business did you have flying that airplane at all? There have been a lot of statistics posted to this thread, and flying a plane you don't understand, or that has a serious maintenance issue, is a great way to become one of them.

I have no idea what it is you're doing or someone has done to that airplane that is causing these problems you seem to be having. But here it is in a nutshell. If your engine is overheating or having other problems, it's either operator error, or your engine (YOUR engine, not all Rotax engines in general) has a problem that needs to be fixed. Maybe someone who had no clue what the hell they were doing set the prop pitch way out of whack. Maybe the carbs are maladjusted, or the idle circuit is maladjusted, or whatever. I don't know. I cannot sense from afar what's wrong with your airplane, sorry. Get a mechanic qualified to work on your airplane and engine, and no, that does not mean an A&P who may have heard of them Rotax thingies and is willing to take a crack at it because, hey, it can't be that much different than a C-65, right?

Think of it this way. You go buy a new... let's say lawn mower with a Honda engine. You have all manner of problems with it. There are thousands of other lawn mower owners that cut their grass every week, with no trouble at all. And yet... yours keeps overheating and running over flower beds or whatever. Apply some shred of logic here. Are all Honda lawn mower engines crap, or is it more likely there's something wrong with YOUR mower that you need to get fixed?
 
I start the engine at around 2000 rpm
Hi everyone.
One important fact that is not being mentioned, and I do agree that the Rotax has it's uses, is overheating. I've flown Rotax with the latest and greatest packages but if you have a long taxi with the wind behind you in temps in the 80F or above you may as well be prepared to stay on the ground for a while. Everyone , Evektor, Czech, Flight Design.... will overheat on you. You can stay on the ground and watch the rest take off, unless you are willing to take a chance and take off in an unsafe condition.
Until they can fix that problem that plant is not a good choice in an acft, in my opinion.

You mean you can overheat your engine
Hi everyone.
I am not sure why some people think the engine is Not the problem?
If you have 5 / all manufactures of LSA that are having issues the engine Is the problem. Ca it be made to work? Maybe, but if you pay $200K for an acft you should get something where you can fly it, not sit on the ground and watch 50 years old acft do touch and gos, departing...


I can confirm that the type of coolant makes No difference, and "more venting" you cannot do much about in an SLSA you can try to play with it in an EAB... and I have read some reports where some say that they made them work in some ELSA, but that is not the point.

If the engine overheats the Engine Is the problem, the fact that someone else may be responsible for it does not change that fact that the engine is what is causing the problem.
Maybe if you are AlaskAustria and you fly in the 70F and below you are OK, but then you should have the limitations placed on it.

Not sure what is your complain about ? Just last weekend visited an airport in Chicago area where they were having Young Eagles flights and saw a SportCruiser and an RV 12 , among others , flying kids, going back, taxing, waiting in line to pickup another kid ...etc etc for close to 3 hours in 90+ degree heat with no apparent issues.

The issue with potential overheating really depends more on the installation ( engine cowling etc ) rather than anything else.
 
There will be an excellent sampling of high HEAT ops this week in the mad rush to OSH beginning today through Saturday. Hopefully some Rotax people report their experiences idling on the ground in Illinois at 98 degs... or waiting at OSH for their campsite assignment.
Not to stir the pot any more... but, I did tons of research on the Rotax before I decided to go Light Sport/Rotax. There were many instances of Rotax overheating over the years but mostly induced and solved by cowling re-design. Keep in mind that in the scheme of things the Rotax thing is fairly new and the airframers back in the day (Light Sport manufacturers) weren't well capitalized so a cowling/engine cooling re-design is a major $$$ roadblock to them. The Cessna and Piper people had a 40+ years head start on their designs. Fortunately Flight Design has been out for a while and got the bugs out which is one of the reasons why I chose the plane. It was never the engine's fault.

The heads are water cooled, NOT the engine. The engine still needs air flow. I will be at OSH this week come hell or heat wave, people are more than welcome to come check out the plane out under the hood, the air flow channels designed and built are pretty sophisticated. I will take a picture of my panel during my OSH flight next time I go into the yellow range and give a real report of temps/RPM's and if there is any near-red line activity which I have yet to see.
 
Hi Sooner.

Here is another honest operator, give it 2 more minutes, a couple of more degrees and you are red line.

The post specifically stated that it wasn't an issue. It crept up into the yellow while downwind taxiing, but immediately came back down once pointed back into the wind/run-up. That doesn't sound like a problem, it sounds like normal operation.


You can do all the selective reading, and denying but the facts are that this is a problem.
If you want to deny that this is a problem and take off in an unsafe condition, destroy your plane and possibility yourself, and worse kill someone on the ground, go for it, I would not recommend it.
The most likely scenario, and I've seen it many times, is that people tend to not pay attention to the problem, deny it, or just ignore it, none are acceptable to me.


When you're the only one having the problem, yet the half-dozen posters who have given their experience falls on deaf ears in your case. That sounds like you have an inherent bias, and refusal to accept that there might be a problem with the way to operate the Rotax, or the way the installation was done in the aircraft you fly. I don't really have a dog in this fight, as I've never flown a Rotax-equipped aircraft and know nothing of their operating procedures. I just try and objectively observe the evidence from various sources, which doesn't seem to support that Rotax has an inherent overheating problems as long as the cowling designs are adequate.
 
Since I started the post, I’ll come back in 10 years and 1400 hours after my O-200 engine is toast (crossing fingers now) and give an update on how the cooling works when you put a 912 in a C150. Just keep arguing about it until I get back. Thanks in advance.
 
Hi.
..I’ll come back in 10 years and 1400 hours after my O-200 engine is toast (crossing fingers now) and give an update on how the cooling works when you put a 912 in a C150

OK, at least there is one logical / common sense mind around, that is likely to be around a while. I'll have no reservation flying with you, or in your plane, on the other hand I am concerned about a lot of posters here, that are determined to ignore facts.
 
Is this Rotax overheat cover up conspiracy the only thing where you're right and everyone else is wrong or does that happen to you with lots of things?
 
You can do all the selective reading, and denying but the facts are that this is a problem.
If you want to deny that this is a problem and take off in an unsafe condition, destroy your plane and possibility yourself, and worse kill someone on the ground, go for it, I would not recommend it.
The most likely scenario, and I've seen it many times, is that people tend to not pay attention to the problem, deny it, or just ignore it, none are acceptable to me.

Looking back on this thread, it appears you are the only one, well and the Capt. that have negative opinions on Rotax engines. It’s also evident that The majority responding, me included, couldn’t care less and are happy flying behind a Rotax. To each, his or her own. It’s ok to agree to disagree. The Rotax series of engines, like their legacy counterparts, will
never please everyone, but they are solid power plants, and they continue to develop at a faster pace than Lycoming or Continental.
 
In fact, based on the FAA registry, there are more Rotax 912s in fixed-wing EAB aircraft than Volkswagens and Subarus combined. In fact, other than VW and Subarus, none of the other conversions gets into three figures.

Looking at the overall FAA registry, there are over 4,000 aircraft specifically listed with Rotax 912 engines.

Ron Wanttaja

What are the numbers on the Honda conversions such as Viking?
 
What are the numbers on the Honda conversions such as Viking?
He indicated that there were no numbers on automotive conversions other than VW and Subaru.
A gentle correction... I said, "None of the other conversions gets into three figures."

There are 94 EAB aircraft named with Honda or Honda-derived engines. Seventy are specifically identified as "Viking" engines. I have assumed that all "Viking" engines are Honda-derived. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

In addition, there are ~4000 EAB aircraft in the FAA registry that do not identify the installed engine type. I estimate (based on the process I described earlier) that ~850 of these are auto-engine conversions. Most are probably VWs or Subarus (them being the most-common identified types). Hondas and Honda-derived engines are about 7% of the known auto-engine fleet, and probably 7% of those 850 are Hondas as well.

So...94 EAB identifiable with Honda engines, and another ~60 possibles.

Ron Wanttaja
 
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A gentle correction... I said, "None of the other conversions gets into three figures."

There are 94 EAB aircraft named with Honda or Honda-derived engines. Seventy are specifically identified as "Viking" engines. I have assumed that all "Viking" engines are Honda-derived. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

In addition, there are ~4000 EAB aircraft in the FAA registry that do not identify the installed engine type. I estimate (based on the process I described earlier) that ~850 of these are auto-engine conversions. Most are probably VWs or Subarus (them being the most-common identified types). Hondas and Honda-derived engines are about 7% of the known auto-engine fleet, and probably 7% of those 850 are Hondas as well.

So...94 EAB identifiable with Honda engines, and another ~60 probables.

Ron Wanttaja

I knew that there wasn’t a large number of them flying but I would have thought there’d be more than that. However I have a strong tendency to believe you and your numbers so my assumption on their numbers is very likely wrong. Thanks for the additional info.
 
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