Cell phones on commercial flights---whose rule?

deyoung

deyoung

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I read recently (on the Internet, so it must be true!) that the commercial carriers' prohibition of cell phone use on commercial flights does not actually come from the FAA, but rather from the FCC, based (broadly speaking anyway) on the fact that cell phones operate outside the frequency ranges that the FCC has given license approval for airborne transmitters.

Can anyone who knows for sure confirm or refute?

Thanks!
 
Google "fcc rule on cellphone use on planes" provides a link to the Wikipedia article on the subject
 
I always subscribed to the OWT that it was an airline rule to drive traffic to the very expensive installed base that was the AirPhone.

But now those have gone the way of the do-do.
 
I believe that there are a couple of things at play here.
One is the FCC rule on old-style cellphone use while airborne.
One is FAA rule with respect to airlines approving or dis-approving electronic device usage.

The most important one is that if a fellow passenger wants to shout into a cellphone around me they should expect a problem.
 
I've never seen a phone get a signal above about 10k AGL. So if they dropped the ban tomorrow, who could talk anyways?
 
Ravioli said:
I always subscribed to the OWT that it was an airline rule to drive traffic to the very expensive installed base that was the AirPhone.

But now those have gone the way of the do-do.
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The rules for use of most electronic devices on airliners have recently been liberalized, but I believe that passenger use of radio transmitters (such as cell phones) is still prohibited, due to the potential for interfering with the plane's navigation and communications equipment.
 
Palmpilot said:
The rules for use of most electronic devices on airliners have recently been liberalized, but I believe that passenger use of radio transmitters (such as cell phones) is still prohibited, due to the potential for interfering with the plane's navigation and communications equipment.
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And said interference personally observed with two different blackberry phones (some years ago).
 
Cap'n Jack said:
And said interference personally observed with two different blackberry phones (some years ago).
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Are the frequencies/modulations that these two phones used at the time still in use today?
 
I believe it is an FCC rule. It was put in place to prevent interference with aircraft radios, but apparently that is no longer an issue. There was a recent attempt to lift the ban, but the current argument is that people talking on their phones in flight would be annoying (see comments above). It seems to me, if there were enough money at stake, it would get lifted. Just like in flight WiFi, as soon as they figure out how to monetize it, it will be done.
 
asicer said:
Are the frequencies/modulations that these two phones used at the time still in use today?
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Since it wasn't that long ago (Android /iPhone were around, 4GLTE), yes. The phone still worked fine (voice and data) when I handed it in, our IT department just standardized on iPhone.
 
I use iMessage for free on every Alaska Airlines flight I take using GoGo. I like it.
 
I was told the cell phones at altitude will have too many towers in view and that causes issues for the networks. Never cared whether it was true or not.
 
John221us said:
Sure, but it is pretty available through Google, as well.

https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-324330A1.pdf

and Wikipedia - the most authorative source around ;)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phones_on_aircraft

edit: one more
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/04/ban-on-in-flight-cell-phone-calls-wont-be-lifted-by-fcc/
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The last is the only one stating that they aren't going to interfere...and they really provide no evidence, conclusive or otherwise, to back that up. :shrug:
 
MauleSkinner said:
The last is the only one stating that they aren't going to interfere...and they really provide no evidence, conclusive or otherwise, to back that up. :shrug:
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I don't really care enough to do any more research, but there is some implied evidence, as there was proposed legislation and there must have been enough to bring that to the table.
 
deyoung said:
I read recently (on the Internet, so it must be true!) that the commercial carriers' prohibition of cell phone use on commercial flights does not actually come from the FAA, but rather from the FCC, based (broadly speaking anyway) on the fact that cell phones operate outside the frequency ranges that the FCC has given license approval for airborne transmitters.

Can anyone who knows for sure confirm or refute?

Thanks!
Click to expand...


Scott Migaldi / ScottM / smigaldi used to be a heavy regular on this board, is/was your man, and helped write the actual reg. Do a little digging here and you can find your info from a reliable source. Not sure where he went, but he hasn't been around for awhile.

ScottM said:
The frequency has been and remains the determining factor. FCC Part 22 only covers the 800MHz band and that is where the original FCC prohibition against airborne use of cellular appears. In the US the 1900MHz band is covered by FCC Part 24 and it contains no such prohibition.

The use of electronic devices in a non-cellular mode is not covered by either of these regulations. I believe that there is an FAA FAR about those, but the FCC tends to shy away from blanket rules.

FWIW both of these parts of FCC rules are way out of date for cellular. A couple of days ago I was talking to the FCC and they will try once again to update the rules. But frankly there is no interest in doing so by the industry. The really higher ups at FCC aka the commissioners also have no interest in doing an update. The only interest is from the engineering staff who want more concise regulatory language in their rules. I doubt this will be resolved anytime soon. But if it does move to some sort of re-write. I am sure I will be in the middle of it as I helped write both Part 22 and 24 many years ago.
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https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...of-cellphones-and-aircraft.42344/#post-724738
 
I can't imagine how annoying it would be to be seated among 200 bored yappers talking all flight on their cell phones. I hope voice calling prohibitions last forever.
 
Stewartb said:
I can't imagine how annoying it would be to be seated among 200 bored yappers talking all flight on their cell phones. I hope voice calling prohibitions last forever.
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AMEN!!!

If you think there is stress, and periodic brawls on airplanes now, wait till they allow cell phone calls. There will be fights on every flight.
 
I just got a mental picture of what hell would be like.

A Ryan air flight that allows cell phone use where every other passenger is a parent with a young spoiled child.
 
Take a look at 91.21.

§91.21 Portable electronicdevices.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any of the following U.S.-registered civil aircraft:

(1) Aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate; or

(2) Any other aircraft while it is operated under IFR.
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From what it looks like to me, people have to turn off their phones because it is an IFR flight and airlines use an air carrier operating certificate.
 
forseth11 said:
Take a look at 91.21.



From what it looks like to me, people have to turn off their phones because it is an IFR flight and airlines use an air carrier operating certificate.
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If you are going to quote the reg please include the rest of it.

(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to—
(1) Portable voice recorders;
(2) Hearing aids;
(3) Heart pacemakers;
(4) Electric shavers; or
(5) Any other portable electronic device that the operator of the aircraft has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.

(c) In the case of an aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate, the determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that operator of the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used. In the case of other aircraft, the determination may be made by the pilot in command or other operator of the aircraft.

So 91.21 doesn't just ban the use of all phones, it also gives the air carrier a way to permit the use of those portable electronics.
 
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