Cateogry, class and type of aircraft...

[John777]

Reg in the FAR states that I must do at least 3 TO and LDG in order to carry passengers on board in an same aircraft category, class, and type.

I understand what category and class means but type.

Does type mean like make and model of the plane ?

 

[RyanB]

Type refers to the specific make and model.

Ex. C172, B737

 

[jordane93]

Any plane over 12500 pounds or turbojet plane requires a type rating which is training specific to that aircraft. For example a 737 and 747 you'll need to do a type rating. If you haven't logged any landings in the 747 in the past 90 days, you'll have to do 3 to be current.

 

[Timbeck2]

Dang it! I'm not current in the 747.

 

[jordane93]

Type refers to the specific make and model.

Ex. C172, B737

Correct about the 737 but you don't need a type rating for a 172. You can do 10 landings in a Piper and still be good to fly a 172 because you've satisfied the category and class.

 

[RyanB]

Dang it! I'm not current in the 747.

3 takeoffs and landings and you'll be good for another 90 days.

 

[Timbeck2]

Thanks, I was more than a little worried.

 

[RyanB]

Correct about the 737 but you don't need a type rating for a 172. You can do 10 landings in a Piper and still be good to fly a 172 because you've satisfied the category and class.

I always thought under "Category, Class and Type of aircraft" in this instance, that type didn't refer to a "type rating", but the actual make and model of aircraft?

 

[Mason]

Do your B-747 landings in the sim.

 

[jordane93]

I always thought under "Category, Class and Type of aircraft" in this instance, that type didn't refer to a "type rating", but the actual make and model of aircraft?

Nope. Type meaning type rating.

 

[mfisher]

I always thought under "Category, Class and Type of aircraft" in this instance, that type didn't refer to a "type rating", but the actual make and model of aircraft?

Nope. Look up FAR 61.57

• 
  (1) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft carrying passengers or of an aircraft certificated for more than one pilot flight crewmember unless that person has made at least three takeoffs and three landings within the preceding 90 days, and--
  • 
    
    (i) The person acted as the sole manipulator of the flight controls; and
    (ii) The required takeoffs and landings were performed in an aircraft of the same category, class, and type (if a type rating is required), and, if the aircraft to be flown is an airplane with a tailwheel, the takeoffs and landings must have been made to a full stop in an airplane with a tailwheel.
    

 

[RyanB]

Nope. Type meaning type rating.

So anything that's under 12,499 is just categorized up to "Class"?

ex. a 172 would be "Airplane, Single-engine land"?

 

[ateamer]

61.57(a)(1)(ii) ... "If a type rating is required".

 

[SkyDog58]

Yeah, that part in the parenthesis is important to understanding what it is telling you.

 

[jordane93]

So anything that's under 12,499 is just categorized up to "Class"?

ex. a 172 would be "Airplane, Single-engine land"?

Yes. 12500 or any turbojet needs a type rating. You can have landings only in a Pilatus and still be current in a 172

 

[RyanB]

Yes. 12500 or any turbojet needs a type rating. You can have landings only in a Pilatus and still be current in a 172

Gotcha, thanks for clarifying that!

 

[James331]

Shall I stir the pot, and ask about how this works for amphibs?

3 to/landings work for both land and sea?

 

[RotorDude]

I believe in helicopters, except for the Robinsons which have their own requirements, a single "type" covers everything under 12,500lbs, including turbines. Of course insurance companies may have their own requirements.

 

[Pilawt]

The definition of "type" is a little muddy among some light airplanes.

Are a Cherokee 140 and a Turbo Arrow IV the same "type"? (They're on the same TCDS)

Are a 1956 Cessna 172 (145 hp) and a 2016 Cessna 172 (180 hp, injected) the same "type"? (They are on the same TCDS but have almost nothing in common)

Are a '63 Cessna 172D (145 hp) and a '63 Cessna P172D (175 hp) the same "type"? (They are on different TCDSs but for all practical purposes differ only in engine and prop)

 

[John777]

Correct about the 737 but you don't need a type rating for a 172. You can do 10 landings in a Piper and still be good to fly a 172 because you've satisfied the category and class.

But let us say when you fly plane other than C172 for the first time, you need to do 3 to and ldgs right?
Because you have never flown it before?

 

[bradg33]

But let us say when you fly plane other than C172 for the first time, you need to do 3 to and ldgs right?
Because you have never flown it before?

Not to be legal, but safe is another story. If you've got 3 take-off and landings in a Cessna 152, you'd be legal to carry passengers in a PC12, even if you haven't ever flown a PC12 (assuming you have the necessary endorsements for high performance, complex and high altitude).

 

[BillTIZ]

Shall I stir the pot, and ask about how this works for amphibs?

3 to/landings work for both land and sea?

I guess that would depend on where you are landing.

 

[BillTIZ]

The definition of "type" is a little muddy among some light airplanes.

Are a Cherokee 140 and a Turbo Arrow IV the same "type"? (They're on the same TCDS)

Are a 1956 Cessna 172 (145 hp) and a 2016 Cessna 172 (180 hp, injected) the same "type"? (They are on the same TCDS but have almost nothing in common)

Are a '63 Cessna 172D (145 hp) and a '63 Cessna P172D (175 hp) the same "type"? (They are on different TCDSs but for all practical purposes differ only in engine and prop)

But they are all Airplane (category) single engine (class). That's all you need, 3 landing in one is good for all the others. Or better yet, one landing each in any 3 and you are good for all.

 

[mondtster]

Shall I stir the pot, and ask about how this works for amphibs?

3 to/landings work for both land and sea?

My opinion is no, assuming you're meaning taking off and landing only on land or water for your 3 takeoffs and landings, but I don't have a regulation to back that up. With an amphib, you could potentially get yourself into a position where you're not current in either land or sea. You might have all the requisite takeoffs in one class and all the landings in another.

Along the same lines, what certificate(s) do you need to operate it? If you only take off and land on land you need an ASEL or AMEL. I know a guy who had a Cub on amphibs and he didn't hold an ASES for several years after he bought it. He just flew it around locally and landed at the airport (a waste, I know). Ironically, he didn't have a tailwheel endorsement for many years either, despite having plenty of time in a PA11.

 

[BillTIZ]

My opinion is no, assuming you're meaning taking off and landing only on land or water for your 3 takeoffs and landings, but I don't have a regulation to back that up. With an amphib, you could potentially get yourself into a position where you're not current in either land or sea. You might have all the requisite takeoffs in one class and all the landings in another.

That would be hard to do, unless you are ferrying aircraft one way.

 

[Pilawt]

But they are all Airplane (category) single engine (class). That's all you need, 3 landing in one is good for all the others. Or better yet, one landing each in any 3 and you are good for all.

True. But a long time ago, the currency requirement was by type ... and as mentioned above, "type" is still relevant to insurance companies.

 

[BillTIZ]

True. But a long time ago, the currency requirement was by type ... and as mentioned above, "type" is still relevant to insurance companies.

That is between you and your insurance company. Every company may be different. YRMV
So let's just deal with the FARs.

I deal with the powered Airplane rated pilots in my club that go non current in gliders and then get upset when they bring a friend out for a ride and I tell them they are not current for passengers in gliders. Let's do 3 around the pattern first.

 

[jordane93]

But let us say when you fly plane other than C172 for the first time, you need to do 3 to and ldgs right?
Because you have never flown it before?

If it's the same category and class you're good to go.

 

[ghogue]

Yes. 12500 or any turbojet needs a type rating. You can have landings only in a Pilatus and still be current in a 172

Not quite. 12,500 pounds does not need a Type Rating. Type Ratings apply to aircraft with a maximum certificated takeoff weight greater than 12,500.

 

[bradg33]

True. But a long time ago, the currency requirement was by type ... and as mentioned above, "type" is still relevant to insurance companies.

You'll find that most insurance companies use the phrase "make and model," not type, when referring to aircraft that don't require a type rating. While the terms are sometimes used interchangeably, I think you'll find that to most people in the industry, "type" is generally understood to refer to airplanes that require a type rating.

 

[unsafervguy]

My opinion is no, assuming you're meaning taking off and landing only on land or water for your 3 takeoffs and landings, but I don't have a regulation to back that up. With an amphib, you could potentially get yourself into a position where you're not current in either land or sea. You might have all the requisite takeoffs in one class and all the landings in another.

Along the same lines, what certificate(s) do you need to operate it? If you only take off and land on land you need an ASEL or AMEL. I know a guy who had a Cub on amphibs and he didn't hold an ASES for several years after he bought it. He just flew it around locally and landed at the airport (a waste, I know). Ironically, he didn't have a tailwheel endorsement for many years either, despite having plenty of time in a PA11.

That guy was flying illegal.

From part 1 the definition of class.
(2) As used with respect to the certification of aircraft, means a broad grouping of aircraft having similar characteristics of propulsion, flight, or landing. Examples include: airplane; rotorcraft; glider; balloon; landplane; and seaplane.

If the aircraft is set up for water operations you need a seaplane rating even if you never land on water because it is classified as a ases at that point.

Bob

 

[SkyDog58]

What if flying an airplane like a Searey which is a taildragger when on land? Does the taildragger requirement of full stop landings come into play if landing on land but not on water?

 

[Greg Bockelman]

What if flying an airplane like a Searey which is a taildragger when on land? Does the taildragger requirement of full stop landings come into play if landing on land but not on water?

Is this a serious question?

The currency requirements apply to whatever surface the aircraft is operating on.