Catastrophic cylinder failure

alaskaflyer

alaskaflyer

Final Approach
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Alaskaflyer
So there I was...sigh.

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cylinder2.jpg

cylinder3.jpg
 
Ouch. What's the rest of the story?
 
Yuck!! Too bad it's not a radial -- you could just bolt another one on and keep on keeping on. ;)

-Chris
 
Well, with a Franklin you can too. Kind of.

Had a deadstick landing at CYZU, which was rather exciting. I had developed a slight vibration and a loss of about 150 rpm up at 6500 msl, a few miles from the airport. Pulled power on base and the engine died, wouldn't restart. Could have probably made the runway, but didn't want to take the chance and what the hell I'm driving a taildragger with 7.00 tires and so I put it down in the nice inviting grass short of the runway lights - only had to dodge a couple of haystacks :eek: Looked under the cowling and found the intake manifold cracked near the cylinder flange. Looked a little closer and found the cylinder damage. It didn't come completely apart until the AME (Canadian for A&P, IA) and I removed it from the case.

Good news is the piston and case are undamaged, and a serviceable used manifold is only fifty bucks. Bad news is I need a yellow-tagged cylinder shipped to Canada, and now of course I have to get back to CYZU later to pick up the plane (again.) Easy fixed by about 1.5 ASUs not counting travel expenses and despite rumors to the contrary I found today that Franklin cylinders are not really that scarce. I can't help but think what would have happened if it had busted during cruise over the wilds northwest of Fort Nelson.
 
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Holly Cow,,,,,,,,,,,, What next?

If there is any thing I can do, call.

I feel Like I got you stuck with a lemon.

Remember the idea on buying the Franklin. run it till it quits and upgrade.
 
AdamZ said:
Man Richard didn't you just get that out of Mx.
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Yeah, and I can't help to think this has been the problem all along - a cracked cylinder case causing intermittent loss of power.

My earlier "maintenance" was due to an aborted takeoff in the spring when I realized I didn't have enough power to clear a short strip. This despite the charts showing I should have had plenty of room. I'm just glad the apparent problem...ahem...manifested itself to the point that it was discovered, and I look forward to getting it fixed and moving on. Who eyeballs every inch of every cylinder? No one's fault really.

It was really just one more grass landing ;) though I can report that the 170 will land in less than 250 feet when the pilot is properly motivated :eek:
 
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alaskaflyer said:
Yeah, and I can't help to think this has been the problem all along - a cracked cylinder case causing intermittent loss of power.

My earlier "maintenance" was due to an aborted takeoff in the spring when I realized I didn't have enough power to clear a short strip. This despite the charts showing I should have had plenty of room. I'm just glad the apparent problem...ahem...manifested itself to the point that it was discovered, and I look forward to getting it fixed and moving on. Who eyeballs every inch of every cylinder? No one's fault really.

It was really just one more grass landing ;) though I can report that the 170 will land in less than 250 feet when the pilot is properly motivated :eek:
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I looked at each and every cylinder on that engine at annual, Franklins are noted for blowing cylinders, That's why I looked. It wasn't showing then.

and it ran fine on our trip over to Kalispell.
 
wow - I'm surprised that a cracked cylinder only costs $150 to fix.

I gotta move to Alaska/Canada.
 
SkyHog said:
wow - I'm surprised that a cracked cylinder only costs $150 to fix.

I gotta move to Alaska/Canada.
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Uhhh, I believe that would be $1500, an ASU being the same as a BSU which is $1000.
 
NC19143 said:
Franklins are noted for blowing cylinders,
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Any theories as to why that is? The failure looks like some sort of metail casting issue or do Franklins run that much higher cylinder pressures than the other engines?
 
smigaldi said:
Any theories as to why that is? The failure looks like some sort of metail casting issue or do Franklins run that much higher cylinder pressures than the other engines?
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Nope, they're just junk.
 
NC19143 said:
I looked at each and every cylinder on that engine at annual, Franklins are noted for blowing cylinders, That's why I looked. It wasn't showing then.

and it ran fine on our trip over to Kalispell.
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Yeah, I think it developed during my week of flying in Kalispell in May, and was misdiagonosed as lead fouling since the spark plugs did have some junk on them when pulled. Would cruise fine but probably had an insidious power loss when under the stress of full power takeoff, which to an ignoramus like me seems like it makes sense in this case.

I feel somewhat vindicated in that originally no one believed me that the plane wasn't developing full power during my spring incident - everyone including the FAA just assumed I couldn't fly her properly. However, it is still 100% my fault for not aborting the takeoff in time to avoid damage. In addition, this latest thing is 100% my fault, for not aggressively pushing the issue with the Montana A&P to do a full troubleshooting of what I knew to be true (i.e. the $%@# thing wasn't developing full power at full throttle even though it would cruise fine) instead of allowing myself to be convinced that everything was fine and I was just a stupid pilot who didn't know any better.

Tom, it's interesting you say that about Franklin cylinders, the AME in Canada is a Stinson specialist and said he has never seen a Franklin cylinder fail structurally.

However as there are no "new" cylinders out there, only rebuilt ones, the increasing age would probably be a factor.
 
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smigaldi said:
Any theories as to why that is? ?
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they are old cylinders with no method of tracking times.



smigaldi said:
The failure looks like some sort of metail casting issue or do Franklins run that much higher cylinder pressures than the other engines?
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Any time a cylinder fires a molicule of metal moves. cycling stress are collective, and eventually the casting will fail.
 
Henning said:
Nope, they're just junk.
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What a crock of crap (AKA COC) just because they are old doesn't make them crap. Franklin is one of the best engine ever built. they beat the h--- out of the Lycoming for durability and dependability.
 
NC19143 said:
What a crock of crap (AKA COC) just because they are old doesn't make them crap.
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Yes it does, they're all old used up junk. They are done.

NC19143 said:
Franklin is one of the best engine ever built. they beat the h--- out of the Lycoming for durability and dependability.
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But you can get NEW parts for Lycomings, Where do the NEW parts for the old Franklins come from? 20 years ago Franklins were great engines (a bit heavy though), Now they are just plain life cycled out, JUNK, ala Sanford & Son.

I used to keep an old UH-12C Hiller in the air... 'no thanks' on Franklins.
 
Henning said:
Yes it does, they're all old used up junk. They are done.



But you can get NEW parts for Lycomings, Where do the NEW parts for the old Franklins come from? 20 years ago Franklins were great engines (a bit heavy though), Now they are just plain life cycled out, JUNK, ala Sanford & Son.

I used to keep an old UH-12C Hiller in the air... 'no thanks' on Franklins.
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Yes, and most new parts comes with the AD attached.
 
Steve said:
New Franklin engines built under license by PZL are currently available.

http://www.franklinengines.com/
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Please do not confuse these polish engines with the American built Franklin, they are not the same as the 165 or the 150 horse power Franklin we see in the C-170, or the Stinson 108-1,2 or 3
 
Henning said:
Well whata you know, there's one, now we only need to find 5 more. I take it that that is NOS, or is someone making them now and are they available for all the models? If I could find all new parts to overhaul with, I could change my mind on using them.
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The support for the 165 is easy to find when you have the right phone numbers, and that is why it is almost mandatory to belong to a type club.
 
NC19143 said:
The support for the 165 is easy to find when you have the right phone numbers, and that is why it is almost mandatory to belong to a type club.
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So far I've had absolutely no problem getting parts, when talking to a fellow the other day about the cylinder he mentioned he had a few yellow-tagged cranks even, which Tom warned me were in perhaps the shortest supply of any parts.
 
Heard from my AME today, the plane is ready :cheerswine:

Need to buy plane and bus tickets. Alaska Air to Edmonton then Greyhound up to Whitecourt. 12 hours flying left to do to get home .
 
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