Career changers

[Ken Ibold]

How many folks have done a midlife career change? How did you pull it off? How dramatic a change did you make? If you went from apples to oranges, how did you deal with being highly experienced in your previous field to a rookie in your new field? Did the change meet with your expectations? What unexpected roadblocks did you encounter? Finally, would you do it again?

 

[Anymouse]

In a previous life I was a AIX System Administrator, Oracle Assistant Database Administrator and ProIV Programmer (worked at Southpoint off Butler Blvd). I hated it but felt trapped. At some point in time I started flying again and decided to do it full time.

While I was getting my ratings and building hours, I was also trying to eliminate bills. My first two flying jobs were part time and I did them while still working the desk job.

At some point, during a performance review, I informed my manager that I didn't want to work there anymore. Six months later, they decided to get someone that wanted to do the job and they helped me out the door with a great severance package. A couple months later I got a full time job flying in Alaska. Haven't looked back since.

Yeah, I'd do it again. The old job was driving me nuts. I was burnt out and had no passion for it.

 

[TMetzinger]

I'm astounded, Andy. Most companies I'm familiar with would have found someone to replace you and shown you the door, no severance at all. You either had a heck of a contract with some sort of tenure, or a heck of an employer!

 

[Henning]

How many folks have done a midlife career change? How did you pull it off? How dramatic a change did you make? If you went from apples to oranges, how did you deal with being highly experienced in your previous field to a rookie in your new field? Did the change meet with your expectations? What unexpected roadblocks did you encounter? Finally, would you do it again?

Once? When I get tired of doing something, or the people I'm doing it for p- me off, I'm gone. If there's something I want to learn to do, I find out who's really good and go work for them (one of the beautiful things about America, if you show a good attitude and aptitude, there is always someone willing to pay you to teach you how to do something). Now I just contract my services to whomever I please and turn down people I don't want to deal with. Now I'm pretty stable doing what I like to do for people I like to deal with.

 

[Joe B]

Ken,

Yeah, school can be a good way to do it. I was working as a stockbroker but wasn't very good at it. I enjoyed the technical side of the trade and the company analysis, but sales? Yeesh! Not my cup of tea. Off I went to B-school to make a course correction. Meanwhile my hobby at the time, messing around with little computers, had really taken off so that's where my first job application went for a summer internship during B-school. To mangle a metaphor, I went from orange futures to Apple. It was a great ride and given similar circumstances I'd do it again in a heartbeat. Don't think I'd try to turn either of my current hobbies, flying and fishing, into new careers though. They're too much fun to turn them into work.

Regards,
Joe

 

[wsuffa]

How many folks have done a midlife career change? How did you pull it off? How dramatic a change did you make? If you went from apples to oranges, how did you deal with being highly experienced in your previous field to a rookie in your new field? Did the change meet with your expectations? What unexpected roadblocks did you encounter? Finally, would you do it again?

ME! ME! ME!

Several times. I thrive on change - things get boring, it's time to do something else. Longer story than I have time for right now, but the short answer is that you continually learn, make contacts, and find someone that has faith in your abilities and past performance to give you the chance to shine in a new role. Then you go and succeed. Consulting is a good stepping-stone.

FWIW, Ken, the CEO of the international division of the F-500 company I used to work for made the transition from BBC Reporter -> McKinsey -> Corporate divisional CEO. I've done a multi-transition career change myself.

Would I do it again? The only thing constant is change, so I really know no other way.

 

[Diana]

Ken, I'll ask Tom and email you his response. He was an editor for Doubleday in Chicago. He quit his job as an editor, bought a farm in Missouri with enough room for a landing strip, became a gentleman farmer, wrote math books and was then offered a job teaching middle school math. Then he became a CFI.

 

[mikea]

Ask this guy:

"Came home, and never touched it again..."

 

[SCCutler]

(Raises hand meekly)

After Nine years in the tech/services business (Bell & Howell, then TRW by acquisition), started law school about two weeks after my thirtieth birthday. I was sort of compelled to do something by virtue of being a top expert in a dying technology and employed at a failing division of TRW (although, as it turns out, my old co-workers all pretty much kept on track in their subsequent acquisition by Anacomp).

Strange things:

1. Being broke again;
2. Going to law school with a bunch of entitlement-minded, smarter-than-everyone-else-in-the-room rich-kid law students, few of whom had ever actually paid any of the taxes mentioned in policy discussions (this is endemic to law school, as the law is an agonizingly inbred profession);
3. Tolerating the vicissitudes of butt-kissing interview time (sort of why I have my own firm...);
4. Did I mention the whole "being broke again" thing?

I don't regret it, now, but I sure did about ten years ago. Important to remember (for me, anyway) that, "...in ten years, God willing, I'll be ten years older. After that, it's up to me."

Would I do it again? Knowing what I know now, I could have spent significantly less than I spent on law school, become an ATP, and been in the cockpit climbing seniority by the time I finished law school. Dat ol' debbil hindsight messes with your head.

At 30, with no kids? Yeah, I'd do it again (meaning, nothing that has happened makes me think I royally screwed up by adopting the path I chose).

Would I do it now?

Maybe something involving an acquisition of a business or a change to industry with an equity stake, something where the law degree and experience would be beneficial, but nothing that would involve a "back to zero" scenario; too much at stake, and Celia has already sacrificed too much for what I am doing now.

And that, my friend, is where it all shakes out; when it's not just about me (you) anymore, you have all sorts of conflicting thoughts. If this is where you are, Mentor and Noted Aviation Journalist, feel free to bounce ideas this way, as I give much better advice to others, than I do to myself!

And for goodness sake, be sure your lifemate is involved at all turns (as I imagine she is).

 

[Ghery]

How many folks have done a midlife career change? How did you pull it off? How dramatic a change did you make? If you went from apples to oranges, how did you deal with being highly experienced in your previous field to a rookie in your new field? Did the change meet with your expectations? What unexpected roadblocks did you encounter? Finally, would you do it again?

You sound like you're contemplating something.

No career changes for me in 33 years. Changed employers, but still an engineer. And as much as I'd like to explore other areas, at (almost) 56 I'm too vested in what I'm doing. Now, in about 9 years if all goes well there will be a major change. "Take this job and shove it" won't just be a song from the past. But I need to get a lot more invested to produce the income necessary to retire. Or, maybe I'll try consulting to supplement what the investments bring in. Who knows? But start over today? Can't do it. Too many responsibilities in the way. Still have a mortgage to pay (that should be done in about 9 years). Wife likes to travel now and then (can't understand that, I'm sick of it most of the time).

As noted by Spike, at some times in your career you just have to keep on keeping on. But, keep your wife in the loop. Changes impact more than just you. Single guys do have that advantage...

 

[ausrere]

I haven't made THAT drastic a career change, but I did make an unexpected change that sure seemed drastic to me (and my friends and family) at the time. I was a patrol officer/Sgt/training officer for 18 years in the DFW area. It was basically all I knew how to do except for a short stint in the IT profession part time. In 2003 I moved to Austin and went to work as an investigator for a small, fairly unknown, state agency that was very different from what I had been doing. A totally new type of law enforcement for me. I Did it for several reasons, one I was getting fairly burned out at the city with no desire to move up the command ladder there; and two..for love (well, at least I thought it was at the time ). I probably wouldn't have done it if my retirement didn't transfer with the job, and I'd wanted to move back to the Austin area for years anyway.

Turns out to be the best decision I ever made. Within two years I was offered a promotion to head the law enforcement side of the agency and I haven't been happier in as long as I can remember. Even with all the administrative headaches, dealing with the politics and dealing with the press, I'm glad I took the job. Now, if I could just get them to pay me enough to support a flying habit, I'd be set.

 

[CJones]

Not a "mid-life" change for me, more of a "pre-life" change. I was majoring in Computer Engineering at one of the higher-ranked CprE schools in the country and was doing darn well at it -- teachers in classes were asking me to help them out by explaining the principles to others in the class. I got tired of that, and dealing with people that would rather talk about hacking Win2k source code than the basketball game from the night before (true story). I had a couple of years of internship (very far from ideal situation), and decided I wasn't ready to be doing that line of work for the next XX years.

I changed majors to History (teach and coach basketball) for a semester before finally giving up the 'pretend effort' to give myself some time to work and find out what I 'really' wanted to do for a career. I went back to my roots and got a job in the agriculture industry. I absolutely loved the work - spending time in the fields, helping stuff grow, etc., but the hours were lousy -- >80hrs/week consistently in the fall & spring, or when a farmer needed something special on random weekends. That made for having an outside life nearly impossible. After a little over a year at the job, they offered me a sales position (more money, less labor). At that point, I had to make a long-term decision -- 1.) devote the time and effort to learn the agricultural industry better than my competitors that had gone to school to learn it, 2.) return to school and change majors to Agronomy which would require at least 4 years to get the degree, and I'd still be stuck with a job that requires heavy seasonal hours for mediocre pay, 3.) Return to school and get a job that I can stand to do, but pays well enough that I can do the fun stuff in my outside life.

I chose #3. After 3 years of driving my wife crazy with lonely evenings and weekends while driving tractors around, I'm currently back in school double-majoring in MIS & OSCM. Is computer stuff my dream job? Heck no! Would I rather be sitting in a tractor or ag equipment working in the fields? You bet! BUT, if I go with the slightly less than ideal computer job, I can make enough money and have the time available to do the things that I really want to do in life.

This is where I am at today. Could it change in the future? By reading other posts here, I would say it's a definite possibility. At least at this point (pre-30 y/o, but barely), I've already made a couple of life-changing decisions which will hopefully make the ones coming down the pipe in the future easier to deal with.

 

[KennyFlys]

Ken, I'll ask Tom and email you his response. He was an editor for Doubleday in Chicago. He quit his job as an editor, bought a farm in Missouri with enough room for a landing strip, became a gentleman farmer, wrote math books and was then offered a job teaching middle school math. Then he became a CFI.

Sounds like quite a trip to go from being a city business suit to a country bumpkin on a grass strip. And, I'm betting the grass is truly greener for him now.

 

[mikea]

I had my mid-life crisis when I was 27. Decided after I bought and programmed a computer for doing my books and sending out bills for my contracting business, which I started when I was 19, I liked the computer stuff better. So I did that.

I'll be giving it up soon and going back to contracting.

 

[Diana]

Sounds like quite a trip to go from being a city business suit to a country bumpkin on a grass strip. And, I'm betting the grass is truly greener for him now.

He was a lot happier after moving from the city. It's hard to get him to wear anything but his Big Mac's now, and he only wears a suit for 'marryin' and buryin'.

 

[B25Flyer]

How many folks have done a midlife career change? How did you pull it off? How dramatic a change did you make? If you went from apples to oranges, how did you deal with being highly experienced in your previous field to a rookie in your new field? Did the change meet with your expectations? What unexpected roadblocks did you encounter? Finally, would you do it again?

Ken,

Geez Ken, is editing my dribble more than you can hack..... I wasn't trying to run you off....

I have no advice on the career change thing, but I can tell you about the crisis thing. I turned 40 at Oshkosh 10 years ago and I thought it was the end of the world. It's the Big Five-O this year so hopefully that's behind me otherwise there will be a blubbering beer stupid 50 yr old man wandering around in warbird camping again this year on Aug 1.... Fair warning.....

The way I live 40 is probably closer to mid-life than 50 so I should be safe....

Tailwinds
Doug Rozendaal

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Started off as a chemist working at big Pharma. Got my MBA- got into marketing lab equipment. After taking graduate level quantum mechanics, any business math is a breeze. I had little sympathy for the kids whining about calculating anything. Hope to stay here until all the manufacturing goes to China or India (big Pharma is outsourcing a LOT of R&D to these two places now). Hopefully 5 or 10 years, then mark time until retirement.

 

[Dean]

I haven't made THAT drastic a career change, but I did make an unexpected change that sure seemed drastic to me (and my friends and family) at the time. I was a patrol officer/Sgt/training officer for 18 years in the DFW area. It was basically all I knew how to do except for a short stint in the IT profession part time. In 2003 I moved to Austin and went to work as an investigator for a small, fairly unknown, state agency that was very different from what I had been doing. A totally new type of law enforcement for me. I Did it for several reasons, one I was getting fairly burned out at the city with no desire to move up the command ladder there; and two..for love (well, at least I thought it was at the time ). I probably wouldn't have done it if my retirement didn't transfer with the job, and I'd wanted to move back to the Austin area for years anyway.

Turns out to be the best decision I ever made. Within two years I was offered a promotion to head the law enforcement side of the agency and I haven't been happier in as long as I can remember. Even with all the administrative headaches, dealing with the politics and dealing with the press, I'm glad I took the job. Now, if I could just get them to pay me enough to support a flying habit, I'd be set.

I started reading this and thought you had wrote my life story. I have been in LE for 26 years this Friday. Worked as a patrolman for a muni and a Sgt.Det for a Sheriffs Department. 5 years ago I made a change to State Park Ranger and have been referred to as a "recreational Cop" I must say it was the best move I have made. The only thing better would be for them to buy an airplane and pay me to fly it for them.

 

[bbchien]

Seven years ago I fired all my partners and struck out on my own. Dad was right, he was begining to wonder if I really was his son.

Shoulda done that fifteen years ago.....

Geez Ken, is editing my dribble more than you can hack..... I wasn't trying to run you off....

Fortunately Ken's been very sparing in editing my stuff. He's a "peach"....

 

[astanley]

I'm on the verge of it daily. The corporate world that I've been successful in has a strong pull; compensation is nice and you can, if you want, dig a little hole and hide there while a storm rages. Since that isn't my style, and I like to change... I started out writing device drivers for a major software/hardware firm and somehow ended up in a "operations" role where I mix legal/finance/M&A/relationship management all together into one tidy little job. It's interesting for now, I hope to be a restaurant owner/photographer/fishing captain/bed and breakfast type before I'm 40.

The only constant thing in my life is change...

Cheers,

-Andrew

 

[Anymouse]

I'm astounded, Andy. Most companies I'm familiar with would have found someone to replace you and shown you the door, no severance at all. You either had a heck of a contract with some sort of tenure, or a heck of an employer!

I had about five years with them when I left. The funny thing is, the company was great, but I hated the job. The company I got on with in Alaska was, by far, the worst company I had ever worked for, but the best job I ever had. Go figure!

BTW... When I told them I didn't want to work there any more, my supervisor was informing me that she was splitting my job into three positions. She asked which of the three I wanted to pursue. I looked her straight in the eyes and said "D, none of the above!" I then explained that I was looked for employment as a pilot and that I would give an appropriate notice when I found a job. Six months later I told her that I had too many projects to be looking for a job like I wanted and refused to take on any more projects so I could devote more time to a job search. We had just gotten a new manager and he's the one that decided to ax me. I'm guessing that my honesty and past work ethic got me the great severance package. Soon afterwards, the company was bought out by Medtronics and severance packages were severely cut. Talk about good timing!!

 

[wby0nder]

I'm coming up on 20 years in a career I never intended to have climbing trees (arborist, shade tree lumberjack). Half way in to it I was very qualified and in demand to instruct in gliders but was making WAY more money climbing with much more free time. I love flying. I don't love climbing trees. It never had much meaning for me.

A couple years ago I met Tony C and he says "hey, why don't you let me teach you to fly airplanes since you tought me to fly gliders?" Shortly after that another gliding pal says, "I'm sick of the airlines and want to start flying crop dusters again".

Now I've just finished building a shop so I can overhaul a cheap little taildragger so I can fly a few hundred cheap hours with a tailwheel so that I can finish my commercial while ground crewing for cropdusting pal so I can get on the insurance next year and fly an Ag Cat so I can QUIT CLIMBING FREEKING TREES FINALLY AT AGE 45!

As for paying the bills during this transition... That old saying about "pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps" comes to mind.

 

[Aztec Driver]

I"ve been doing the same type of job for the last 30 yrs. I did change employers twice and then finally decided to "have the glory" and run my own business. I make a little more money now, but work a whole lot more hours to get it.
The best thing, though, is I just made PIC in a 135 charter, so now I can go from not being paid to fly, to being paid next to nothing. If only I could find decent qualified employees to take my place, I could drop it all and go fly charter full time. The money isn't any better, but it is a lot more fun, the customers are a lot better than mine, and it is less hours.

 

[AuntPeggy]

For over 15 years I was housewife and mother with a strict budget. Often told I was too stupid to <insert mundane task> and not allowed to leave the house without spousal permission.

One day I did leave the house, enrolled at the community college. Despite recriminations, household responsibilities, fear, and age, managed to maintain A+ average and went on to graduate from university with high honors in Business Administration. Worked as computer department manager, reporting directly to company president. When Hubby demanded I get home to do grocery shopping and make his bed, divorced.

Lived hand-to-mouth for a couple of years until moving to New York where I moved up in computer skills and in position until an officer of JP Morgan Chase. Married a man who goes shopping with me and who shares making the bed.

Took off another couple of years to teach and now I'm coasting along as a software engineer ensuring the quality of digital medical imaging. I own an airplane and fly across the country a couple of times a year.

Life has been very good.

 

[Pjsmith]

When Hubby demanded I get home to do grocery shopping and make his bed, divorced.

I wish more under-the-thumb spouses had your courage!

 

[Ken Ibold]

For over 15 years I was housewife and mother with a strict budget. Often told I was too stupid to <insert mundane task> and not allowed to leave the house without spousal permission.

One day I did leave the house, enrolled at the community college. Despite recriminations, household responsibilities, fear, and age, managed to maintain A+ average and went on to graduate from university with high honors in Business Administration. Worked as computer department manager, reporting directly to company president. When Hubby demanded I get home to do grocery shopping and make his bed, divorced.

Good for you!! I know two women that have been in similar situations. One escaped (and married me) and the other gave up all of her dreams and continues to endure this situation after something like 25 years.

 

[SCCutler]

For over 15 years I was housewife and mother with a strict budget. Often told I was too stupid to <insert mundane task> and not allowed to leave the house without spousal permission.

...

When Hubby demanded I get home to do grocery shopping and make his bed, divorced.
...

The gene pool gets muddled-up at times. I cannot imagine wanting, or being interested in, a wife who would do what I told her to do.

Good on you!

 

[mikea]

One day I did leave the house, enrolled at the community college. ...

Wow, Peggy! Great story! Great life!

I did sorta the same with the college. I signed up for a regular programming course because I wanted to know how to program my PC in assembler. The assembler course had prerequisites. (Little did I know at the time it was IBM assembly.)

One things leads and at some point they said I had to attend graduation. I didn't. The schools were so lame, I didn't think the diploma meant much. They mailed me a diploma.

I did go on to sample real colleges. Did good mostly but never finished.

 

[AdamZ]

Peggy WINS Thread closed! Great story.

Changing careers? Wow. Thats scary and exciting at the same time. I don't even know what else I'd do.

 

[woodstock]

Aunt Peggy wins for sure!

 

[t0r0nad0]

Great job, Peggy! I'm glad to hear that you were able to free yourself from that situation.

On a somewhat related note, has anyone seen the movie Waitress with Keri Russell? It's about a girl in a somewhat similar situation, and it is very good.

 

[Everskyward]

I wish more under-the-thumb spouses had your courage!

No kidding. Good for you Aunt Peggy!

I've made one career change which I'm sure doesn't sound drastic to anyone else but it seemed so to me. I spent the first 20 years of my career in the photogrammetric mapping business, first as a camera operator/photolab tech, then as an aerial survey pilot for various different companies. At times I would vaguely entertain the idea of going out and being a mainstream pilot, but the mapping industry was comfortable, I knew the business well, and I didn't want to take a big pay cut. I just figured I would be a career aerial survey pilot.

When I was about 40 I felt like I had done all I could with the job. The next logical step in that industry would have been going into business for myself or in conjunction with others, which I was invited to do by a number of different people. I had no interest in doing that and after turning down the business offers realized I needed to try something different. I ended up getting a commercial helicopter add-on and a helicopter CFI with the thought that I could move in that direction. I quickly realized that jobs were much harder to come by in the helicopter world, especially when employers only counted time in category (helicopter) and discounted my fixed-wing hours. At the time I was also not willing to relocate, which I know has been a detriment to my career advancement.

After that I switched gears and got my fixed-wing ATP and started applying to various airlines, charter companies, etc. I quickly realized that the airlines and I were mutually incompatible. I had spent way too much time in an unstructured environment out on my own and I wasn't a good personality fit. I ended up getting hired by a local charter/air ambulance company. For me it was a huge culture shock (I have to wear a uniform??) and a very steep learning curve at first. I had gotten my ratings in a slow and haphazard manner and other than that I was pretty much self-taught. I had never before set foot in a ground school class of any kind. Then they sent me to school where I was expected to learn how to fly a King Air in a week, in a full-motion simulator. I had never seen a flight director or flown a coupled approach. In fact, I had only used an autopilot a handful of times.

Obviously I survived, although I sometimes questioned my decision during the first year. I took a big cut in pay to work much harder, not to mention gaining the privilege to be awakened in the middle of the night to fly in the crappy weather in the mountains alone. I'll always be grateful to the chief pilot who gave me a chance because it was ultimately a good move for me. I would never have had the opportunities or experiences I have been given if I had stayed in mapping, and I ended up making up the pay differential too.

 

[gkainz]

I ended up getting hired by a local charter/air ambulance company.

Air Methods? Was Gary Tucker there then?

 

[Everskyward]

Air Methods? Was Gary Tucker there then?

Nope, not Air Methods. Gary Tucker's name sounds familiar for some reason though.

 

[gkainz]

He was with Air Methods in mid-90s when they chartered with a Westwind (before "helos only"). The airplane owner pulled the Westwind and took it and Gary to another charter co at APA (can't recall who right now). Gary's now with Ball, flying their new (and very cool) Bombardier.

 

[Ghery]

When Hubby demanded I get home to do grocery shopping and make his bed, divorced.

If I tried that with my wife, she'd divorce me, too. You and she would get along great.

My wife graduated from college at the same time I did, then did the stay at home routine until our kids were well established in school. Did volunteer work at the school, liked it, and went back for her teaching certificate. Now has a Masters in Education. And to think that she used to get nervous over the tought of getting up in front of a group to speak.

Oh, and her post graduate GPA (with more hours than I care to count) is 4.0.

I'd much rather have a wife who is capable and does things and leaves housekeeping as a lesser priority than one who does nothing with her life other than keep a perfect house and watch soap operas all day (OK, she catches up on General Hospital at night. ). Much more stimulating.

 

[Gerhardt]

devil's advocate

I'll take the opposite position on this one. I landed a job at the general office of an insurance company fresh from college. It's every bit as exciting as it sounds. Did several years in the IT department and loved the work but hated the atmosphere so I went back to my old department. Fast forward 18 years, a wife and two kids in elementary school. I would enjoy an exciting career change but

1. Anything aviation related would require a location change and large reduction in income.

2. I haven't found anything non-aviation related that excites me enough to make a change.

3. Right now I can fly for pleasure when I want. And I don't dread going to work everyday. And I'm enjoying the hell out of life, especially my family, so other than a mundane job.....

 

[Everskyward]

Gary's now with Ball, flying their new (and very cool) Bombardier.

OK, I know which flight department you are referring to. Up at BJC, right? Challenger 300, nice! I'm still trying to place Gary Tucker. For a while we (the mapping company's planes) were hangared near Air Methods. Maybe that's how I know his name.

 

[gkainz]

OK, I know which flight department you are referring to. Up at BJC, right? Challenger 300, nice! I'm still trying to place Gary Tucker. For a while we (the mapping company's planes) were hangared near Air Methods. Maybe that's how I know his name.

Yep - BJC. Gary's a tall, skinny blonde (then - now gray) guy - friendliest guy you would ever want to meet. Flew L-19/O-1 Bird Dogs in SE Asia.

 

[alaskaflyer]

I started reading this and thought you had wrote my life story. I have been in LE for 26 years this Friday. Worked as a patrolman for a muni and a Sgt.Det for a Sheriffs Department. 5 years ago I made a change to State Park Ranger and have been referred to as a "recreational Cop" I must say it was the best move I have made. The only thing better would be for them to by an airplane and pay me to fly it for them.

Very similar story to mine as some of you know.

A point I wanted to make is that for Dean and I our careers didn't "change"; we are still in law enforcement but we leveraged our knowledge and expertise into a profound lifestyle change within our chosen career. Sometimes that is a much more reasonable proposition for someone a little further along in life. If you are a prosecutor and hate your life become a real estate attorney. If you are a systems administrator looking for a change go back to programming. Many friends who hate management go back to being a senior line employee in whatever career they are in. These examples are enough of a change to bring joy back into a hypothetical life without the school, the major income changes etc.