CAR3 certified aircraft in a 2022 world

[Magman]

At this time I almost exclusively do owner -assist.

A few weeks ago I posted “ Tele-tech Anyone?”

The intent was to open a discussion on how to use technology to improve safety

and reduce costs by reducing drive time and improving efficiency.

This would fit right in with Bell’s ( and mine) Retirement Plan.

The response was underwhelming.

There is a term for someone that wants to do “ same-old” repeatedly and expect

different outcomes.

I just had my surgical pre- op via tele med.

My thought is installing a brake pad could be accomplished the same way and

save 2 hours of driving . And the $$$ related.

 

[AlphaPilotFlyer]

I would say you may be getting overly concerned about this. When I was a DER we had certain steps in deterring acceptable replacement parts as in your situation where original parts on TC were no longer available. For what it’s worth, I would suggest following:

find a switch that will fit in the current hole that meets the circuits requirement (amp rating). You mention switches you are looking at have only AC amp rating…. No worries, AC and DC switches are not different, you will just need to convert the AC rating to DC rating using simple formula.

next, I would only consider switches with some recognized approval reference, such as a UL or ISO, where you have some basis of printed testing or compliance. this will not exactly be same wording as listed in CAR3, but it will show the A&P it was designed and retested to meet original switch requirements.

As mentioned above, there is a FAA AC about using non approved parts in vintage planes, and it should not be such an issue. I know plenty that install car parts in old planes without doing anything documentation wise. One guy with a c182 needed a new lap safety belt but didn’t want to pay the $600. for an approved replacement so he took the original to a small seat belt manufacturer for vintage cars and got exact replacement for $75 and simply installed it and A&P had no issue. In his case, the original belt was 50 years old and age had made it far weaker than any new belt….. point it, he felt it would be safer to install a new non -cert belt than rely on a weak antique belt with haldpf a century of use, stains, UX, etc.. The FAA doesn’t care about life of pilots, only meeting out dated regulations that make their job black and white.

I have seen several electoral fire and smoke events due to a 50 year old circuit breaker not popping, yet to replace old breakers with approved parts would be cost prohibited for most even though even cheap breakers would be far safer. Again, FAA doesn’t care. I load tested some of the more important breakers on out 1969 c172 and they didn’t pop until getting real hot and popping at a unsafe load so I changed them out with new where most owners simply buy approved replacements from salvage yards that are just as old and not tested.

Find a quality replacement switch from a reliable source, not something off eBay, reference the AC guidance, show the A&P the docs and they should not have a problem.

 

[Magman]

I’ll second the comment on the CBs. Stinson 108’s use auto- reset breakers that may not have activated since the Truman Administration. There are only 4 or 5 of them.
IMHO any upgrade should begin at the Bus Bar. Fuses/CB swap would be a Minor Alteration in my book.
Spending thousands on units but relying on wiring that may be left over from L-5 production does not make sense .
When your shoes are off is a good time to change your socks!

 

[mondtster]

I’ll second the comment on the CBs. Stinson 108’s use auto- reset breakers that may not have activated since the Truman Administration. There are only 4 or 5 of them.
IMHO any upgrade should begin at the Bus Bar. Fuses/CB swap would be a Minor Alteration in my book.

Having owned a couple of Stinsons, I agree 100%. The old circuit breakers and wiring should be one of the first things that gets replaced.

 

[Bob Noel]

I ... When I was a DER we had certain steps in deterring acceptable replacement parts as in your situation where original parts on TC were no longer available.

(I couldn't resist)

interesting typo... at least I hope it was a typo. ;-)

 

[Dan Thomas]

The FAA doesn’t care about life of pilots, only meeting out dated regulations that make their job black and white.

That there is the problem with just installing "uncertified" stuff. An accident results in an investigation, and investigations find stuff like that. Even if the uncertified thing didn't cause the accident, the FAA might fine the owner or mechanic, and the insurance company might use the felony to avoid paying out. The $600 savings on the seat belt might turn into total loss of the airplane for the owner. And one such substitution leads to others, and soon that airplane is so far from type design that the next owner gets hung with it all. If it even sells.

I used to send in the Cessna belts to a shop that had certification for rewebbing. That means that they used approved webbing, and had a pull-tester to make sure the belt would take the thousands of pounds it was expected to. As long as the old belts still had their tags, they were able to reweb them. I sure didn't pay $600 for rewebbing.

Switches and breakers are one thing. Seat belts are much more serious, so much so that aftermarket vendors have to have STCs or PMAs for their stuff.

 

[Magman]

I’ve been advising my guys to either make plastic “wrappers” or use clear tape to protect those tags. Some of them are ridiculously fragile.

 

[bluerooster]

I have a similar problem in the automotive world right now. Whilst I don't need to worry about certificated parts etc, I still have to try to find the closest original parts I can. I am doing a resto-mod on an exceedingly rare 1973 Chevelle (only 36 remain registered in the US last I checked) and finding parts for this beast is truly a nightmare. There are very few places that make very very few specific parts for it. As a result I've become very familiar with GM parts of the era and have to figure out and "make fit" sometimes as close to original as possible. The original owners manuals and repairs manuals just don't have any relevant info as the parts either don't exist or no one makes a specific replacement. I get around it by finding the next closest related item ... maybe a corvette or camaro or cutlass or regal part etc etc. sometimes I have to bite the bullet and custom fab something from scratch. In my mind that is where an old plane would be at, just with the added complication of using certificated parts.

What izzit with all this "Resto-Mod" stuff? Especially with a vehicle which is one of only 36 left in the world. I just don't understand taking a (what I'm working on ATM) '70 Chevelle SS 427 4speed. and installing an LS3 Tuned port (FiTech ) with 4l60E, push button shift, push button start, push button E-brake, Vintage air, new electronic dash, shaved door handles, etc. The only origional part on this car is the roof.
And next in line is a '58 Corvette, Real nice car, for the same treatment.

 

[bluerooster]

I bought a set of approved seat belts from Wag, they were far from $600. Seems to me it was about $60/seat.

 

[R.L.Mauzy]

What izzit with all this "Resto-Mod" stuff? Especially with a vehicle which is one of only 36 left in the world. I just don't understand taking a (what I'm working on ATM) '70 Chevelle SS 427 4speed. and installing an LS3 Tuned port (FiTech ) with 4l60E, push button shift, push button start, push button E-brake, Vintage air, new electronic dash, shaved door handles, etc. The only origional part on this car is the roof.
And next in line is a '58 Corvette, Real nice car, for the same treatment.

It's simple really, I'm making what are appropriate modifications that would be considered era correct or close to it. My first mod was having the original 350 built by an independent shop for NASCAR's local series so it is now a street legal NASCAR spec motor. Then I went through the suspension and included modern springs and shock and rates etc whilst keeping the original ride height just making it "new" again. Wheels were changed to a Crager SS look-a-like and went with a 17 inch instead of 15 so I can fit bigger brakes and tires for better stopping performance and handling in the real world. I could go on and on, things like long tube headers, stainless exhaust, slowly reworking the interior. Some of it new old stock but much of it totally custom because unlike the fat n ugly 2nd gen A bodies you can't just open a catalog and order all your "custom" parts, we have to make them. And also because it tends to **** off purists and I really get a kick out of doing that, I like to remind them that the 3rd gen A bodies are lighter, faster, and handle better and they were literately built to be modded and raced which is why there are so few left. The 73's in particular because they are a 1 year only body style. So Resto-Mod's .... restoring while gently modifying are a great way to build a car and takes time and skill and whilst more challenging it also more rewarding when done. At the end of the day you end up with something utterly unique and in this case very valuable it's a win win ...

 

[bluerooster]

Era correct is fine, but what I have folks wanting me to do is make their early muscle car (60's-'70s) into a 2023 luxury car. Like taking a 1969 ZL1 Corvette, and turning it into a computer controlled nightmare. IMHO it's sacrilege.

 

[MarkH]

What izzit with all this "Resto-Mod" stuff? Especially with a vehicle which is one of only 36 left in the world. I just don't understand taking a (what I'm working on ATM) '70 Chevelle SS 427 4speed. and installing an LS3 Tuned port (FiTech ) with 4l60E, push button shift, push button start, push button E-brake, Vintage air, new electronic dash, shaved door handles, etc. The only origional part on this car is the roof.
And next in line is a '58 Corvette, Real nice car, for the same treatment.

From a restoration standpoint, I understand your position and the markets agree (look at auction values of restorations vs modifications).

But, I don't think restoring a 60 year old airplane and restoring a 60 year old sports car should be treated the same. A 1960 Corvette, if restored, will likely be restored to enter a collection and only be used for the occasional Sunday drive. A 1960 Pacer, if restored, will likely be used a personal plane or may end up on a flight line to be flown (at least) weekly to do a job. For that reason, modifications should be treated differently. If the Corvette restoration adds airbags or even shoulder belts to make it safer, that mod is unlikely to have a huge impact on usability (because odds of the Corvette being driven enough to have a safety incident are low), but will impact its authenticity. On the other hand, shoulder harnesses on the Pacer I would view as a requirement because the odds of the Pacer being used enough to encounter a safety incident are quite high because a modern restoration could see thousands of hours of flight time in its useful life vs the Corvette's hundreds of hours of use in that restoration's useful life.

For that reason, if I restore a 72 Chevelle, I would want it numbers matching and as close to factory as possible. But if I am restoring a Piper Pacer, I don't really care about how factory correct it is because I want it to be as safe as the FAA will let me make it.