Car talk - maintenance

[mikea]

When I had my Mercedes I still found a good independent foreign car guy to work on it.

I know that the fee for use of the ramp in the repair department at the Mercedes dealer is $400 (this was a few years ago) plus $400 per any system being worked on.

 

[woodstock]

hmm this has got to be one of the fastest expanding posts ever. 1 hour and 39 replies. you guys keep stats on this sort of thing?

think how much trouble I start when I get a plane and start asking maintenance questions!

 

[Ken Ibold]

I mean this in the nicest way possible Ken, but you are also getting ripped off, primarily because there is nothing that a dealer knows about working on the cars that an ASE mechanic at a non-dealer garage doesn't know.

Why? Because they are both ASEs and likely went through the same training. There is next to no reason to put dealer only parts on a vehicle and certainly no reason to spend $1000 on spark plugs and a fuel filter (as was said by the dealer mechanics). Mercedes or Gremlin, an ASE is an ASE.

That said, its your money.

Well, I have had enough of sitting in a grimy dumpy shop for an hour or so listening to bad daytime TV only to have the mechanic say "we gotta get the part from BMW, come back tomorrow." I would rather go in a nice, plush waiting room with fresh Starbucks and warm chocolate chip cookies and a big screen TV with a stack of DVDs or else help myself to the bank of computers, if I'm waiting for it, or else snag the keys to a new Z4 convertible for a couple of days.

It ain't always about cheapest price, my friend.

 

[woodstock]

Well, I have had enough of sitting in a grimy dumpy shop for an hour or so listening to bad daytime TV only to have the mechanic say "we gotta get the part from BMW, come back tomorrow." I would rather go in a nice, plush waiting room with fresh Starbucks and warm chocolate chip cookies and a big screen TV with a stack of DVDs or else help myself to the bank of computers, if I'm waiting for it, or else snag the keys to a new Z4 convertible for a couple of days.

It ain't always about cheapest price, my friend.

Ken, we speak the same language. you oughta see how nice their service area is. marble floors, massive flat screen, plush chairs... even the bay when you drive up to drop it off - you could eat off the floor - on nice china.

maybe I should have taken that Hummer when they offered it to me. yeehaw.

 

[jesse]

I'm 38 years old and have owned almost 20 cars since I was 19.

Sounds to me like you suck at picking mechanics..A car a year?!?

Now with the computers and crap that's inside them, it's easier to deal with the one mechanic I always get at the dealership (and yes, I know him personally after he started taking care of my truck).

I'm just a stupid 18 year old kid...But IME the computers make it easier.





(just messing with you)

 

[Ghery]

Routine maintenance does not need to be done by the dealer to be effective.

Examples -

1988 1/2 Ford Escort. Around 175,000 miles when my son traded it in on his Mustang. Serviced exclusively by Jiffy Lube. Oil changes, transmission service, coolant, etc. Had a few mechanical issues late in life, but one of the most trouble free cars I've owned.

1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee. Presently around 175,000 miles and running fine. Serviced exclusively by Jiffy Lube. Other than running longer than 3000 miles between oil changes it gets whatever service (coolant, transfer case, differfentials, transmission) their computer says it's time for. Just put a 4th set of tires on it a month or two ago. Top end Goodyear Wranglers as I expect to wear them out in about 60,000 miles or so. Before the Jeep isn't economical to keep on the road.

1999 Jeep Wrangler. About 115,000 miles and running fine. May have to replace the spark plugs (factory installed) one of these years. Again, Jiffy Lube for all routine servicing. If it needs it, it gets it. Again, a very reliable vehicle. Stranded me once when the fuel pump gave up without notice. That tow job paid for several years of AAA membership.

I'd hate to add up the receipts each year for Jiffy Lube alone, but the way I see it, it is still cheaper than buying a new engine or vehicle every few years. While I admire much about my great grandfather, his "Buicks are greased at the factory" attitude about vehicle maintenance was faulty.

Elizabeth, I think the whole point of the replies in this thread isn't that you shouldn't have stuff done to your MB on a proactive basis, it is that the dealership probably isn't the most economical place to have it done.

 

[Brian Austin]

Sounds to me like you suck at picking mechanics..A car a year?!?

Sometimes it was three cars in a year. A few times I've had no cars at all. Mostly I'd sell them when I wanted something different.

I've had this truck for six years (at 195,000 miles right now).

Mechanic selection is just like any other skilled profession selection. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It's also largely based on consumer expectations.

I'm just a stupid 18 year old kid...But IME the computers make it easier.

(just messing with you)

Computers make it easier when you have the equipment. I used to work on my cars with a single toolbox that I could carry without a cart. Nowadays, you need specialized tools, a diagnostic computer and a full set of manuals (more than my old Chiltons) to do anything more than changing fluids or the alternator. Ain't worth it any more.

 

[tom clark]

for the past 10yrs or so new cars have come with these "check engine" or "service" dummy lights. they are triggered at a certain mileage, say 10 or 15 or 20k, or a certain time, every 6 months or so. It just depends on how bad the dealer wants to rip you off. I bought an audi back in july 02, and owned it all of a month when the light went off. I took it back, he said it went off because the car was now a year old and there was nothing wrong or any repair required. This is a huge racket and once your maintenance deal is done with the manufacturer you are far better off to find another repair shop. Anybody can plug your car into their computer and read the code and tell you if theres anything really wrong. Case in point: Our 01 pathfinder with 48k had the check engine light on for the past two years. We're trading it in so we take it to the dealer to get it "fixed". The car runs fine of course or we'd have done something about it sooner. This guy rattles off a grand worth of "recommended" maintenance. Ever have your power steering fluid changed? How about your brake fluid? Differential fluid? I've driven cars with 200k on them and never done that. Anyway, by the time its all done I agree to an oil change, a new fuel and air filter and new belts. And oh yeah, the check engine light meant nothing and they simply reset it. If we still own the car when it hits 50k I expect it'll light up again. tc

 

[Ken Ibold]

for the past 10yrs or so new cars have come with these "check engine" or "service" dummy lights. they are triggered at a certain mileage, say 10 or 15 or 20k, or a certain time, every 6 months or so. It just depends on how bad the dealer wants to rip you off.

Although I am a cynic, I don't necessarily agree with your pessimistic view. People are so USED to just driving their cars, the idiot lights are reminders that a car does need periodic maintenance. My 04 Honda Pilot has just such an idiot light, and right there in the owners manual it tells how to reset it if you do the work yourself or a shop neglects to reset it for you. (Hold in the odometer set button and turn the key from off to on, wait at least 5 seconds before releasing the button.) I wish all the manufs would make resetting the light so easy, then perhaps you wouldn't perceive it as part of a ripoff scheme.

 

[ejensen]

I want to get Iridums for the plane. They're supposesd to resist lead fouling.

They are BTW, the last I checked, $75 each, or $900 for 12. I guess for $1000 they would throw in a few spares.

What plug do you use. My REM38S are $63 + shipping.

 

[mikea]

What plug do you use. My REM38S are $63 + shipping.

Same ones. $75 was the FBO markup price several years ago.

I was thinking just putting 6 on the bottom, but I'm not having troubles since I got the Top OH. In the end I'm convinced it was more due to oil fouling. It took a while post OH for the plugs to stay clear.

 

[woodstock]

I looked online, and just for wires and plugs - nothing else - it's about 300 bucks. if there are other items to change out, then 650 for just the tuneup sounds right.

350 for fuel filter seems wacky though. I'd still take it to the dealer though - if push came to shove he'd have my back - and why, do you ask? Because if he didn't, I'd tell him that SLK on the lot will sit b/c I'll go up the street for it.

 

[woodstock]

score!

my 800 dollar maintenance bill was lowered to 600 just because. The CSR just called me to let me know he dropped the price and the car is ready - I didn't even complain or have to show my leg.

are you sure there isn't a mole here in POA?

 

[Bill]

350 for fuel filter seems wacky though.

Some foreign cars have in-tank fuel filters (as does my BMW motorcycle). Drain tank, detach and lower from car body (although some can be accessed thru a panel under the back seat), pull fuel pump, replace filter, re-attach and seal fuel pump, pressure check, install gas tank, fuel the car, test.

It's a job.

 

[Bill]

I wish all the manufs would make resetting the light so easy, then perhaps you wouldn't perceive it as part of a ripoff scheme.

We had a Z-3 2.8 convert before Holly was born, delightful little car. Fairly easy to self service, but I had to get that service indicator to reset. Dealer wanted large change, someone in the back of car mags was selling a device for $65, but I let my fingers do the typing on google. I learned how to make a simple wiring harness, and that combined with specific key switching reset the light.

Then Sherry got preggo and the little two seater roadster was traded in on a sensible family sedan.

 

[woodstock]

Some foreign cars have in-tank fuel filters (as does my BMW motorcycle). Drain tank, detach and lower from car body (although some can be accessed thru a panel under the back seat), pull fuel pump, replace filter, re-attach and seal fuel pump, pressure check, install gas tank, fuel the car, test.

It's a job.

that makes sense.

 

[Greebo]

score!

my 800 dollar maintenance bill was lowered to 600 just because. The CSR just called me to let me know he dropped the price and the car is ready - I didn't even complain or have to show my leg.

are you sure there isn't a mole here in POA?

I'll answer that if you show your leg...

 

[Brian Austin]

I'll answer that if you show your leg...

Heck, I'll make something up if she shows some leg.

Heck, I'll BE the mole.

 

[Greebo]

Heck, I'll make something up if she shows some leg.

Heck, I'll BE the mole.

SSHH SHH, thats what I was PLANNING to do, but now you've spoilt it!

 

[ejensen]

Same ones. $75 was the FBO markup price several years ago.

I was thinking just putting 6 on the bottom, but I'm not having troubles since I got the Top OH. In the end I'm convinced it was more due to oil fouling. It took a while post OH for the plugs to stay clear.

I like them, never had fouled plug and flooded start are easier. But they came with the plane and replacing one or two doesn't hurt like buying the first set. And I only use 8.

 

[jshawley]

Sometimes even the dealer can't get it right! My 2000 S-10 Extreme extended cab has a two-piece driveshaft, front is located by a center bearing, rear slips on, and is u-jointed by two Double-Cardan joints. After at least $1000.00 on pinion shaft brgs and carrier brgs, as well as twice rebuilt rear D/C joint (and at least three shaft balances), I surfed the net, and found 1) a serv. bltn. directing the D/C joints be greased through the special fittings each oil change, and 2) the Extreme (which has the ZQ8 option package) throws the rear axle's pinion shaft out of line with the transmission shaft by as much as 12 degrees! No wonder it keeps failing! And GM/Chevy says: They all do that, nuttin' we can do, outta warranty, &c. So now, I'm getting a good used shaft, and a kit to align the xmission to the pinion shaft to within 2 deg. So disappointed, as my (ordered new, less than 5 miles when we picked it up) 85 Bonneville lasted 340,000 miles with only one warranty issue; I did all the mechanical work on that one, and she ran, well turn off your computer, air conditioning, and put in ear plugs: that's how quiet that engine ran. Used Arco Graphite 10W40 oil. Bambi killed her.

But, yes, Elisabeth, I do think that's a bit soon for platinum plugs; no-lead gas, car plugs just will never foul, and ought to go at least 80,000 if not more, depending on other factors (weight of right foot, &c ).

Later!

Jim

 

[woodstock]

But, yes, Elisabeth, I do think that's a bit soon for platinum plugs; no-lead gas, car plugs just will never foul, and ought to go at least 80,000 if not more, depending on other factors (weight of right foot, &c ).

Later!

Jim

I do have a heavy right foot. the loaner they gave me this time is a brand new C280 - auto (bleh) but what's neat about their automatics is that they don't shift until almost redline. cool! I'd like to try their 7-speed automatic out.

 

[gkainz]

You're assuming that only the engine is being serviced here...

No I'm not, I'm just yankin' yer chain!

Binder - bleh! Cummins - Yessss!

Almost like "there's nothing worse than an ex-smoker" I grew up in a construction company of all Ford trucks, and nothing but Ford trucks. I have had only Ford trucks - my last one being a F-250 4x4 with the 6.9L diesel. However, now that my Cummins is almost broken in at 160,000 miles, I'll say right now, even having to put up with the Dodge shipping container the Cummins is packed in, I'll never go back!

 

[Brian Austin]

No I'm not, I'm just yankin' yer chain!

Binder - bleh! Cummins - Yessss!

Almost like "there's nothing worse than an ex-smoker" I grew up in a construction company of all Ford trucks, and nothing but Ford trucks. I have had only Ford trucks - my last one being a F-250 4x4 with the 6.9L diesel. However, now that my Cummins is almost broken in at 160,000 miles, I'll say right now, even having to put up with the Dodge shipping container the Cummins is packed in, I'll never go back!

I'd love to see a Cummins/Allison combination under a F-350 hood.

I have the 7.3L Powerstroke and haven't heard wonderful things about the newer version of it. I have 195,000 miles on mine and it's still at the same mileage and power it was when it was new. No issues towing a 5th wheel through the mountains in AZ.

I'd love the Cummins but Dodge just can't get me on the styling and the quality. There is a reason most utility trucks AREN'T Dodge.

 

[kevin47881]

I mean this in the nicest way possible Ken, but you are also getting ripped off, primarily because there is nothing that a dealer knows about working on the cars that an ASE mechanic at a non-dealer garage doesn't know.

Why? Because they are both ASEs and likely went through the same training. There is next to no reason to put dealer only parts on a vehicle and certainly no reason to spend $1000 on spark plugs and a fuel filter (as was said by the dealer mechanics). Mercedes or Gremlin, an ASE is an ASE.

That said, its your money.

Nick, I'm gonna take some exception to your statements. Just for some clarity, I've been in the car business for 23 years both for manufacturers, retailers and owned my own automotive consulting business. I'm also an ASE master technician (just for the heck of it, don't really need it anymore).
You state "there is nothing that a dealer knows about working on the cars that an ASE mechanic at a non-dealer garage doesn't know". This isn't necessarily true. Technicians at the dealership have access to, and in most cases it is required, factory training. As an old factory trainer I can attest to the fact that only dealership technicians receive this training. Moreover, even with my experience, I don't have any where near the knowledge on MB compared to a MB dealership technician. This is true for all makes, not just MB.
While "an ASE is an ASE" is certainly true, it does not mean both have the same knowledge on a particular make.
Now, were spark plugs needed at 65k? Probably not since under normal driving conditions they should be good for about 100k. If they pulled a couple and checked them for carbon deposits and proper gap, then made a recommendation, my opinion would be different.

 

[Michael]

once they offered me a Hummer but I declined.

You leave yourself so open on that Beth.
I wont do it.....but its killin me.

 

[PoAdeleted5]

deleted.

 

[jesse]

Japanese cars on the other hand, require little, except what is precisely required in the maintenance schedule. Do not taunt the maintenance schedule. They don't handle flat out abuse like American cars though.

I don't know about that. I knew a guy who drained all of the oil out of his Honda Civic and proceeded to race around town with it. After he got home it was still running. He took the valve cover off and poured water in. Still running. At this point it didn't exactly sound healthy...

Hondas do not die.

 

[kevin47881]

I don't know about that. I knew a guy who drained all of the oil out of his Honda Civic and proceeded to race around town with it. After he got home it was still running. He took the valve cover off and poured water in. Still running. At this point it didn't exactly sound healthy...

Hondas do not die.

You saw this or HEARD about this???? Please excuse my skepticism.

 

[jesse]

You saw this or HEARD about this???? Please excuse my skepticism.

Witnessed...Although I didn't exactly play "cop" and ensure that there was no cheating per say. But considering the entire mission was "blow this car up" I really don't suspect there was.

Like I said. It didn't sound pretty. But it still produced power. I highly doubt it ever ran again after said abuse..I'm sure it locked up.

 

[JRitt]

score!

my 800 dollar maintenance bill was lowered to 600 just because. The CSR just called me to let me know he dropped the price and the car is ready - I didn't even complain or have to show my leg.

are you sure there isn't a mole here in POA?

He is prob a pilot and was on the forum. BTW your prices sound about right for that car. Hold off on the plugs. Mine have 130K on them and when I pulled them out last month they looked fine but I did rebuild the entire front suspension myself for $289 from PST parts

 

[JRitt]

I don't know about that. I knew a guy who drained all of the oil out of his Honda Civic and proceeded to race around town with it. After he got home it was still running. He took the valve cover off and poured water in. Still running. At this point it didn't exactly sound healthy...

Hondas do not die.

This is entirely beliveable. He could prob do this for 2-300 mi before the bearings would be toast.

 

[kevin47881]

Witnessed...Although I didn't exactly play "cop" and ensure that there was no cheating per say. But considering the entire mission was "blow this car up" I really don't suspect there was.

Like I said. It didn't sound pretty. But it still produced power. I highly doubt it ever ran again after said abuse..I'm sure it locked up.

Dang Jesse, that is impressive. Just wanted to be sure it wasn't a "I knew a guy whose cousin knew this girl who dated this guy in highschool" kind of thing

 

[ScottM]

You saw this or HEARD about this???? Please excuse my skepticism.

Did you see the mythbuster one where they tried to blow up an engine?

In the fuel they did bleach, sugar, drain cleaner all to no avail. Best they accomplished was with the bleach there was enough to stop combustion.

they then turned to the oil. It took a few tries but once they got enough bleach in the engine it caused a problem. But even then it was not the nice explosion or sudden stopage one might expect. It took a while and then finally siezed.

It would not surprise me to see an engine drained of oil take a while to completely destroy itself. But I'll bet damage was taking place the whole time.

BTW the cool thing on MythBusters they did to the car was to put a hole in the radiator, then add and egg to the fluid to see if it stopped the leak. IT DID! Pretty quickly as well.

 

[Bill]

BTW the cool thing on MythBusters they did to the car was to put a hole in the radiator, then add and egg to the fluid to see if it stopped the leak. IT DID! Pretty quickly as well.

Egg whites or the whole thing?

 

[ScottM]

Egg whites or the whole thing?

the whole thing except of course the shell

 

[Bill]

the whole thing except of course the shell

Wow, no yoke! (bwahahahaha, I crack me up...)

 

[ScottM]

Wow, no yoke! (bwahahahaha, I crack me up...)

How do you fly without a yoke? Are you a stick man?

When you order eggs to do like the yolk to be broken?



just trying to beet EdFred to the punch

 

[Greebo]

How do you fly without a yoke? Are you a stick man?

When you order eggs to do like the yolk to be broken?



just trying to beet EdFred to the punch

I don't think you're getting to the root of the problem here...

 

[Bill]

How do you fly without a yoke? Are you a stick man?

When you order eggs to do like the yolk to be broken?



just trying to beet EdFred to the punch

Yolk, yoke, damn, I hate when puns turn bad...