car gas

woodstock

woodstock

Final Approach
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just read an interesting article in the Post.

folks are switching to cheaper (regular) gas in droves. supposedly it won't hurt your car even if your mfr states "premium only". I always thought you are asking for pings/knocks if you did that...
 
If it keeps going the way it is going it will be cheaper to put 100LL in my truck. Mogas went up 40 cents in the past 2 weeks. 100LL remained unchanged.
 
woodstock said:
just read an interesting article in the Post.

folks are switching to cheaper (regular) gas in droves. supposedly it won't hurt your car even if your mfr states "premium only". I always thought you are asking for pings/knocks if you did that...
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*most* cars that use super have knock sensors in the ignition system that detects pinging, and adjusts the timing accordingly. In other words, the engine computer "tunes" the engine continiously to match the anti-knock qualities of the gas used.

If I remember correctly, you have an MB, and they use knock sensors. The only thing you give up switching to regular is a reduction in horsepower, and maybe a slight reduction in mileage. If you drive like grandma, no loss. If you're Mario Andretti (sp?), you may miss the power.:yes:
 
woodstock said:
just read an interesting article in the Post.

folks are switching to cheaper (regular) gas in droves. supposedly it won't hurt your car even if your mfr states "premium only". I always thought you are asking for pings/knocks if you did that...
Click to expand...


Elizabeth,

Like aviators do, read and "follow the POH". Same with the car owner's manual. However, in my experience, there usually is some room for deviation. If your car runs without any problems on lower octane, regular may be fine. Some pinging would be OK, such as under acceleration. If it pings and knocks under normal driving conditions then higher octane is required.

Jim
 
In this throw away society, more and more people are likely to throw their car away and buy a new one before they get into maintenance issues so they probably wouldn't care in the first place.

My guess is cold soaking an engine overnight then sitting at a red light, slamming the throttle nearly wide open to get to 50-55mph asap or sooner in a 30mph zone, running the next light then slamming the brakes on and barely stopping before the next redlight with the crossing traffic is going to cause way more damage to your engine than changing the octane a little. Poor maintenance isn't likely to help matters either.

My 1987 mustang book and inside the gas cap cover said premium only. 135K miles later running on substandard toilet water it still runs nearly as good as the day I bought it. Never knocks, pings or does anything obnoxious. The occasional engine accessory fails but that's independent of the fuel system. From what I've seen peeking inside occasionally it's just normal wear and tear so far. With that record I can't find anyone that can justify me spending 30-50 cents a gallon more.

IME: Keep it clean, keep it maintained, keep it tuned up (timing is important), don't run it to death...
 
yup, clean, well maintained (the car tells me when something needs done and I take it in - for instance tomorrow is a big checkup so I expect to be 600+ dollars poorer). I do have a lead foot though. I've been afraid to switch and likely won't for fear that the 10-15 cents will do something expensive down the line.

shortly I will be over 40 bucks a tank - and it wasn't so long ago I was paying 25 a tank. wonder why no one is up in arms that the oil cos. made 7+ billion profit last QUARTER.
 
IMO if your car is fairly new and it tells you to use premium only it would be wise to spend the extra $100 or so a year and run the good stuff. Most cars these days are made to run on regular. If your car says to only run premium only you probably spent an extra 5g's on the motor anyway and you might as well get the performance you paid for. The above statements are correct...if you put regular in the car your engine will sense the predetination in your engine and retard the engine as much as possible to avoid the problem. However, what if the sensor fails...what if your base timing is really off and your car cannot adjust enough to make the engine safe. My guess is your engine has a higher compression which is why they recommend premium gas.

I have spend hundreds of hours at the race track and have been around people that tried to use cheaper gas/old gas in their engines. More often than not the $10 in gas they saved cost them thousands in the long run. But those engine are run at the max all the time which is nothing like normal driving. You be the judge.
 
I have personally never ran premium in any vehicle I have owned.(not more than a tankful here and there anyway). In the scheme of things you are only dropping the octane like 5 points by running regular unleaded anyway, big deal.
Even my high compression Trans Am ran fine on regular. Funny thing, my 99 model pickup has pinged a little ever since I bought it, using premium fuel does not change it at all.
Don
 
Iceman said:
IMO if your car is fairly new and it tells you to use premium only it would be wise to spend the extra $100 or so a year and run the good stuff. Most cars these days are made to run on regular. If your car says to only run premium only you probably spent an extra 5g's on the motor anyway and you might as well get the performance you paid for. The above statements are correct...if you put regular in the car your engine will sense the predetination in your engine and retard the engine as much as possible to avoid the problem.
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The Acura MDX and the Honda Pilot have the same engine. The Acura handbook urges premium and the Pilot says use regular -- unless you're towing or otherwise want more performance, then use premium. The Acura is listed as having a higher HP, but that's when the Acura is burning premium and the Honda is on regular. Our 99 BMW fuel door says use premium. So does the handbook. But then, in a parenthetical notation, says go ahead and use regular if you want to, but you won't get the same performance.

I think that in some respects the manuf encouragement to use premium is a marketing ploy to think the would-be buyer is getting some kind of high performance engine.
 
Ken Ibold said:
I think that in some respects the manuf encouragement to use premium is a marketing ploy to think the would-be buyer is getting some kind of high performance engine.
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You're darned close. Selling image cars (BMW, ACURA) hinges a lot on horsepower, horsepower sells these cars, and manufacturers use every trick to get a leg up on the other guy. On the flip side, making many different engines is expensive.

Thus, the Honda situation. The Honda recomments regular, and you get x horsepower. The same engine in an Acura recommends super, and you get x+10, or maybe x+15.

My previous advice stands, you WILL NOT HURT any knock sensor equipped car by running regular in it, you just loose that 10-15hp. What is 10hp worth to you?

Our Fords manuals actually advise AGAINST running super, as it says you may encounter cold weather starting and drivability issues when running super.
 
woodstock said:
yup, clean, well maintained (the car tells me when something needs done and I take it in - for instance tomorrow is a big checkup so I expect to be 600+ dollars poorer). I do have a lead foot though. I've been afraid to switch and likely won't for fear that the 10-15 cents will do something expensive down the line.

shortly I will be over 40 bucks a tank - and it wasn't so long ago I was paying 25 a tank. wonder why no one is up in arms that the oil cos. made 7+ billion profit last QUARTER.
Click to expand...

It costs me about $25 to fill up each of our cars, and that's with the gas having gone up to $2.41 gal. :)

The oil companies and gas stations are engaged in blatant profiteering. A couple days ago, gas was $2.28. King Fahd died, and that same day they raised the price 13 cents a gallon because of "higher oil prices." Pure crap.

Still, despite all the crying I hear about higher gas prices, it's not affecting us personally that much. Cathy's Elantra GT gets about 24 mpg, my Matrix gets about 30 mpg. The higher gas prices cost us an extra $5-$10 month, for both cars combined.
 
Joe Williams said:
It costs me about $25 to fill up each of our cars, and that's with the gas having gone up to $2.41 gal. :)
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Must be small tanks.

Filled up the car last night - $44 - $2.50+ a gallon right now. The only thing that seems to go up as quickly as the gas price, is health insurance. :(

Luckily I don't do much mileage - some of the guys in the office tho drive 30-40 miles a day (house costs in this area are just stupid). When thats a three gallon +round trip, 5 days a week, an extra %0.50 a gallon starts to add up.
 
What really irks me is that diesel is now priced at or above premium gas. C'mon, it's cheaper to make that regular gas! <family_filter>#$(*%^#$&@#$!#!</family_filter>
 
gkainz said:
What really irks me is that diesel is now priced at or above premium gas. C'mon, it's cheaper to make that regular gas! <family_filter>#$(*%^#$&@#$!#!</family_filter>
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Yep and in my opinion that means that the gas prices have room to grow. Normally regular gas should be slightly more expensive than diesel. I think they are just slowing down the increase for the public so we can get used to the new higher prices.

Well the environmentalist should be happy...as the prices go up usage should go down some and there will be more money into alternative fuels. I also think it would help spread bio diesel which IS the answer in my opinion (gives the farmers jobs/provides us with a low emission renewable fuel).
 
$85 to fill the F250 Diesel the other day. Flippin' $2.85/gal.

I'm actually driving LESS now because of it. If it breaks $3.00/gal, I'll probably park it for a while and buy a motorcycle or something.
 
I fill up once a week. I haven't done superfluous driving since moving out into the sticks 18+ months ago, mostly due to the time factor - it's a major hassle going anywhere now. superfluous as in - before I moved out here, I wouldn't think twice about just getting into my car to go visit friends/go out/be more sociable, any/all nights of the week. now it's such a frickin hassle to even run errands that I usually save everything for the wkds. I just can't be bothered to run into DC to meet a friend for dinner like I used to - it's 35 miles from my house, one way. it would have to be an "occasion".
 
woodstock said:
I fill up once a week. I haven't done superfluous driving since moving out into the sticks 18+ months ago, mostly due to the time factor - it's a major hassle going anywhere now. superfluous as in - before I moved out here, I wouldn't think twice about just getting into my car to go visit friends/go out/be more sociable, any/all nights of the week. now it's such a frickin hassle to even run errands that I usually save everything for the wkds. I just can't be bothered to run into DC to meet a friend for dinner like I used to - it's 35 miles from my house, one way. it would have to be an "occasion".
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LOL - I drive 2 miles to work, and 2 miles home again. It's the only way I can afford to run the V12 B) I fill it maybe once a month.

If we go anywhere, we take my wifes Liberty, which gets a respectable 18-19 on average, and will pretty much run on anything. The XJ-s only drinks premium, and noticeably complains on anything else, but then it's 20 years old and entitled to a few quirks :) It averages about 10 to the gallon on normal driving, maybe 15-20 on the freeway if we go out cruising !

Of course, if I could keep my boot out of it...it'd probably do better too :)
 
Joe Williams said:
The oil companies and gas stations are engaged in blatant profiteering. A couple days ago, gas was $2.28. King Fahd died, and that same day they raised the price 13 cents a gallon because of "higher oil prices." Pure crap.
Click to expand...

Amen.

Living in Milwaukee a few years ago we got a preview of what's going on now. On Sept. 11, there were several stations that took advantage of all the rumors that we wouldn't be able to get gas at all in short order and raised prices over $4/gal. Atty Gen Jim Doyle (now Gov.) went after them.

Before that, summer of 2000, the Milwaukee/Chicago area prices for the RFG2 gas that has to be used there went through the roof. Sen. Feingold, among others, launched an investigation. Several weeks later, the front page of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel had a front page headline something like "Feingold probe finds no reason for inflated gas prices." Gas in the area dropped 40 cents/gallon that day. The emporer has no clothes...
 
Iceman said:
Yep and in my opinion that means that the gas prices have room to grow. Normally regular gas should be slightly more expensive than diesel.
Click to expand...

Or, they realize that the diesel crowd is somewhat of a captive audience. I can't pedal an 80,000 pound truck.

Well the environmentalist should be happy...as the prices go up usage should go down some and there will be more money into alternative fuels.
Click to expand...

Not holding my breath on either count.
 
Joe Williams said:
The oil companies and gas stations are engaged in blatant profiteering. A couple days ago, gas was $2.28. King Fahd died, and that same day they raised the price 13 cents a gallon because of "higher oil prices." Pure crap.
Click to expand...

Amen.

Living in Milwaukee a few years ago we got a preview of what's going on now. On Sept. 11, there were several stations that took advantage of all the rumors that we wouldn't be able to get gas at all in short order and raised prices over $4/gal. Atty Gen Jim Doyle (now Gov.) went after them.

Before that, summer of 2000, the Milwaukee/Chicago area prices for the RFG2 gas that has to be used there went through the roof. Sen. Feingold, among others, launched an investigation. Several weeks later, the front page of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel had a front page headline something like "Feingold probe finds no reason for inflated gas prices." Gas in the area dropped 40 cents/gallon that day. The emporer has no clothes...
 
Well, I take back what I said about the $25 fill ups for the Matrix. I spent $29.30 to take on 11.5 gallons. They've raised the prices twenty three cents a gallon in less than a week.
 
The past few cars I've owned have 87 listed as their minimum octane. Most states call 87 "Regular". However, in Colorado they sell 85 ocatane as "Regular" and 87 as "Plus" or something like that. Then there's Premium which I never buy so I don't know what the octane number is. I guess the moral of the story is that if you care about things like this, look at the octane number and not what it's called.

I've always used 87 as recommended because although gas prices in general may be high, the difference between the two isn't that much.
 
Sigh. $92 to fill up the diesel today. Blah.

I wonder how much effort the recycled vegetable oil conversion is for the 7.3L Powerstroke. I might smell like burnt french fries but it's a heck of a lot cheaper.
 
when are our vaunted leaders going to do something about this? this can't be good for the country...
 
Remember when, unleaded started and some manufactures were adamant about not using it in there equipment?
 
My Mustang with a V8 is supposed to be fine on 87 octane. I can HEAR it knock if I don't give it premium. :dunno:

I occasionally use the mid-range octane but usually spring the extra 10-15 cents a gallon for premium.

I can get 25 MPG or better on cross country driving. About 18-20 otherwise. Not so bad. If it's costing you $40 a day to fuel your Monstrasta allow me to guffaw.

BTW, when the gas is $2.50 a gallon. $2.75 for premium is only 10% more. In my case it's about $3.00 more per full tank fillup. How much do you tip at pretty bar girl for one round?
 
mikea said:
I can get 25 MPG or better on cross country driving. About 18-20 otherwise. Not so bad. If it's costing you $40 a day to fuel your Monstrasta allow me to guffaw.
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Not sure who you're referring to with "Monstrasta". I get 18 in the city/20 on the highway (22 in cooler weather with no a/c running) in my F250 Diesel.
 
Brian Austin said:
I wonder how much effort the recycled vegetable oil conversion is for the 7.3L Powerstroke. I might smell like burnt french fries but it's a heck of a lot cheaper.
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Ah, the Hanoi Jane method..... :eek:

Actually, it's a great idea. I understand there's a shortage of solar panels in some areas right now.
 
woodstock said:
when are our vaunted leaders going to do something about this? this can't be good for the country...
Click to expand...

It's a free market, supply and demand. As long as we demand more and more gasoline, the price will keep going up.

Interesting aside:

With all the "buy like an employee" things going on, a number of cow-orkers have bought brand new vehicles...what are they? Gas savers? No way.

Chevy 2500 turbo diesel 4-door 4wd crew cab pickup
Ford F-150 Supercrew 4x4
Nissan Titan Supercab 4x4
Chevy 1500 short bed
Ford 500

So, out of these vehicles bought in the last month, the smallest/most fuel efficient was a FULL SIZE CAR.

I asked the guys who just bought the gas sucking full size trucks, response "I don't care what it costs, I'm going to drive what I want."

Gas prices will continue to rise as does demand. Period.
 
Bill Jennings said:
It's a free market, supply and demand. As long as we demand more and more gasoline, the price will keep going up.

Interesting aside:

With all the "buy like an employee" things going on, a number of cow-orkers have bought brand new vehicles...what are they? Gas savers? No way.

Chevy 2500 turbo diesel 4-door 4wd crew cab pickup
Ford F-150 Supercrew 4x4
Nissan Titan Supercab 4x4
Chevy 1500 short bed
Ford 500

So, out of these vehicles bought in the last month, the smallest/most fuel efficient was a FULL SIZE CAR.

I asked the guys who just bought the gas sucking full size trucks, response "I don't care what it costs, I'm going to drive what I want."

Gas prices will continue to rise as does demand. Period.
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what morons. they are probably mortgaged to the hilt on everything they own, too.

I'll continue to run premium, but a while ago I was toying with getting a different car - C320 or E series or even the SLK. they all are pigs on gas mileage. I'm staying put. this is infuriating.
 
woodstock said:
what morons. they are probably mortgaged to the hilt on everything they own, too.

I'll continue to run premium, but a while ago I was toying with getting a different car - C320 or E series or even the SLK. they all are pigs on gas mileage. I'm staying put. this is infuriating.
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I drive what it takes to get the job done, I tow, so I drive a dodge diesel 2500 Quad cab. and it gives me 19-22 mpg and today it cost me 80 bucks to fill it.

What are we going to do when China is willing to pay 100 bucks a barrel for oil?

we'll pay, it because we are fully depandant upon it. there is NOTHING in your daily lives that doesn't touch a barrel of oil in some way.

Yet our president just signed a energy bill into law that gives the oil companies the largest tax cut in history, and that was after the oil companies posted the largest increase in profits ever.

Every oil company posted net profit gains of 35-40% except Phillips, they posted 56%.

Bottom line? your pay check just shrank 50%
 
woodstock said:
I'll continue to run premium, but a while ago I was toying with getting a different car - C320 or E series or even the SLK. they all are pigs on gas mileage. I'm staying put. this is infuriating.
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I wonder if you realize the humor in what you're saying here...

You're willing to pay $50,000+ for an automobile that is functionally equivalent to a $12,000 Kia...and you're complaining about a 20% increase in fuel costs?

If you're THAT interested in saving money, your priorities are a little off. ;)
 
woodstock said:
I just paid 43 bucks to fill my tank. a week ago I was just shy of 40 bucks. that's insane.
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I can still go from fumes to full in about $35 in my trusty Accord... But it's getting to be time for something new(er). I sure wish the supply of hybrids was better.
 
28 mpg on the road in my Ford 500 4WD. 18+ in the city. Not too bad for a LARGE Car.
 
Brian Austin said:
I wonder if you realize the humor in what you're saying here...

You're willing to pay $50,000+ for an automobile that is functionally equivalent to a $12,000 Kia...and you're complaining about a 20% increase in fuel costs?

If you're THAT interested in saving money, your priorities are a little off. ;)
Click to expand...

I don't buy them brand new. they're only 40K! :rolleyes:

and no, they aren't functionally equivalent to a 12K Kia. bite your tongue. :blowingkisses:
 
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woodstock said:
I don't buy them brand new. they're only 40K! :rolleyes:

and no, they aren't functionally equivalent to a 12K Kia. bite your tongue. :blowingkisses:
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Functionally:

Both get you from A to B in the same amount of time, given legal speed limits (or even reasonable transgressions of said speed limit).

Both have basic luxuries like air conditioning, automatic transmission, CD players, etc.

Both have safety systems in place, ie air bags, restraints, etc..

Both have reasonable warranties and mean time between failures...although it costs considerably more to maintain a MB as you already know.

Aside from a slightly better ride in the Mercedes, the only difference between the two is the head turning factor. People look at you and KNOW you're making good money. In the Kia...it's assumed you're not making the kind of money you are.

Personally, I gravitate toward working trucks...but so did Sam Walton. ;)

I have a hard time listening (reading) someone complain over a $3 increase in their gas costs per week and then happily skip into a Starbucks for a $5 cup of coffee. Expensive house...expensive car...expensive hobbies (flying, international traveling)...and you're really, seriously ticked off over $3??
 
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