Car Brand Stereotypes

[MAKG1]

Not that big of a deal. Going uphill at a snail's pace is somewhat annoying. Going downhill is not a factor. Just coast.

Just don't ride the clutch. Pulse it lightly if you need it.

 

[kayoh190]

That's fine if you live in TMOFN.

Places like this, not so much- a real pain:

It doesn't bother me much, or at least not enough for me to buy an automatic just for the occasional time I find myself in traffic.

 

[RJM62]

That's fine if you live in TMOFN.

Places like this, not so much- a real pain:

Actually... I lived and/or worked very close to there for most of my life. That road is the Belt Parkway in Brooklyn, and that particular section is right around Gravesend. It's not far from JFK. I was born and raised about 15 minutes west of there (or an hour, depending on traffic) in Bush Terminal.

My father used to teach me how to drive down by the docks on the weekends when they were pretty much deserted, starting as soon as I could reach the pedals. I think I was about 10 years old (much younger if you count all the times I drove while sitting on his lap). Things were different then. Nowadays they'd probably put you in jail for that.

And yeah, I drove stick there. It can be a bit of a pain, but you get used to it.

Rich

 

[RJM62]

More importantly, I've never had a stick kick down driving uphill on slippery roads.

That SUCKS. Though snow and ice is an obvious situation, wet evergreen needles or oak leaves are also slippery as hell.

I rented an auto KIA (now there's an appropriate name…) in northeast Ohio in the middle of winter once. That F'er kicked down every time I climbed a hill, hard enough to break a tire free and start fishtailing. In a stick, I can have the power at idle when I shift….

The Camry is the only auto I've owned for years (not my choice -- my mom gave up driving, and that's what she had), and I constantly need to downshift it even slightly downhill or it likes to take off. What's the point of an auto that's never right?

FWIW, autos are not terribly hard to service, but they are messy and VERY labor intensive. Manual transmissions are much more persnickety, especially if they have cone bearings (those have to be shimmed and preloaded), but they don't break much as long as they are kept lubricated.

It's a gap in my knowledge and one of the few things on a car that's a mystery to me. All those valves and solenoids... yikes. I suppose I could rebuild one given the time, but I'd have no idea how to diagnose one.

As an aside, I'm thinking about replacing the manual transmission oil in my Soul with synthetic. It was a bit stiff some mornings this past winter when the temperature went much below -10 F and would take a few miles before it would shift comfortably. The Red Line 75W-85 GL-4 seems to be the preferred synthetic gear oil among Soul aficionados. I've never heard of it before. Any thoughts on it?

Rich

 

[zaitcev]

I share the affliction. In shopping for another Jeep Wrangler recently, to replace my existing, I am having difficulty finding a manual transmission Wrangler in inventory. People just don't seem to want to shift anymore, and I don't count Tiptronic "shifters" as manual as there is NO MANUAL CLUTCH. Duh!

The 6sp manual in JK Wrangler is the pits. The reliability is poor and the auto is actually better. Even my ancient 42RLE is (was) better. The clutch master will leak, the gears pop out randomly. The shift feel is excessively agricultural. Aaaaand, there's no 3rd Hand kit for JK, because of the electronic throttle. Sure, there's an anti-stall, but... Wrangler is probably one of the few cars where buying it with manual makes little sense even though the option still exists.

 

[Anthony]

The 6sp manual in JK Wrangler is the pits. The reliability is poor and the auto is actually better. Even my ancient 42RLE is (was) better. The clutch master will leak, the gears pop out randomly. The shift feel is excessively agricultural. Aaaaand, there's no 3rd Hand kit for JK, because of the electronic throttle. Sure, there's an anti-stall, but... Wrangler is probably one of the few cars where buying it with manual makes little sense even though the option still exists.

I don't care. I want one anyway.

 

[MAKG1]

It's a gap in my knowledge and one of the few things on a car that's a mystery to me. All those valves and solenoids... yikes. I suppose I could rebuild one given the time, but I'd have no idea how to diagnose one.

As an aside, I'm thinking about replacing the manual transmission oil in my Soul with synthetic. It was a bit stiff some mornings this past winter when the temperature went much below -10 F and would take a few miles before it would shift comfortably. The Red Line 75W-85 GL-4 seems to be the preferred synthetic gear oil among Soul aficionados. I've never heard of it before. Any thoughts on it?

Rich

It works fine. Expensive, but fine.

Some manual transmissions require ATF. I believe the Red Line GL-4 in particular still works, but arbitrary GL-4's do not. GL-5 is not appropriate in a manual transmission, that's for differentials. Red Line also makes at least two synthetic ATF's that work just about the same.

However, a stiff clutch will not be affected. What it can affect is the situation where the transmission just doesn't want to go in a gear. If the clutch is hydraulic, you can try a good synthetic DOT4 (not DOT5) brake fluid. If it has a cable, it may need adjustment or cable lube or replacement.

 

[Shepherd]

Do you want to hear what I replaced on my Jeep Wrangler?

For crying out loud, you broke through 100k. That's quite a bit even for a Volvo.

As Pete will attest. You haven't been beaten and abused until you own a Jeep CJ or YJ
There is something on that vehicle that needs to be replaced every day. In 20 years I was only able to put 137,000 miles on it. I had 411,543 miles on an '88 Nissan Pathfinder in 13 years. The kid I gave it to put another 105,000 on it when he gave it to his sister.
I only kept mine for 20 years because I absolutely, positively:
1. Needed it in winter, and
2. Was never, ever, EVER going to admit buying it was the biggest mistake I ever made as far as motor vehicles were concerned. (wasn't going to give my wife the satisfaction)

 

[RJM62]

It works fine. Expensive, but fine.

Some manual transmissions require ATF. I believe the Red Line GL-4 in particular still works, but arbitrary GL-4's do not. GL-5 is not appropriate in a manual transmission, that's for differentials. Red Line also makes at least two synthetic ATF's that work just about the same.

However, a stiff clutch will not be affected. What it can affect is the situation where the transmission just doesn't want to go in a gear. If the clutch is hydraulic, you can try a good synthetic DOT4 (not DOT5) brake fluid. If it has a cable, it may need adjustment or cable lube or replacement.

Thanks.

The clutch is fine. The gearshift just required more effort to move when the temperatures got really frigid. Usually I can shift with a thumb and two fingers. I needed three or four for the first mile or two when it got really, really cold.

This car calls for 75W-85 GL-4 in the manual transaxle. It doesn't specify dino or synthetic. Supposedly the Red Line has better friction characteristics for the synchros than other synthetics (at least according to Red Line). It also seems popular among Soul enthusiasts, who credit it for all sorts of performance improvements.

I really don't care about the cost. We're talking less than two quarts at about $17.00 / quart, for the life of the car. Even I'm that that much of a tightwad to care about that.

Thanks again. I guess I'll order some.

Rich

 

[MAKG1]

75W-85 GL-4 is 75W-85 GL-4. It will work fine. I wouldn't expect any performance improvements, though. Lots of placebos in car performance.

One effect you might get is the next owner swearing at you because Red Line looks a lot more like ATF than gear oil, and he thinks you put the wrong stuff in there.

 

[Zeldman]

I had an old 3/4 ton Ford van with a 3 speed. 2nd gear was making a lot of noise. Before it broke I put 140 weight gear lube in it. On a cold day I wouldn't need gears, just put it in neutral let out the clutch and it would drive like a worn out automatic.

After the tranny broke I put a 5 speed out of a mustang in it. That was fun. Sure woke up the old 300-6 in it. I finally put an aluminum intake on it with a 390 CFM 4 bbl, then a split exhaust hedder. With 4.10 rear gears it was really fun to drive. I was going to put a 351w in it but that old 6 was too much fun.

I pulled my local dirt track sprinter with it for years. I sold it to a person that used it to pull a trailer when he moved back to Mexico. I guess it is a chicken coop in someones yard now.

 

[RJM62]

75W-85 GL-4 is 75W-85 GL-4. It will work fine. I wouldn't expect any performance improvements, though. Lots of placebos in car performance.

One effect you might get is the next owner swearing at you because Red Line looks a lot more like ATF than gear oil, and he thinks you put the wrong stuff in there.

Meh. My last car had 187K on it before I traded it in. I maintain them meticulously and drive them for a long, long time. What the buyer thinks about my choice of tranny oil probably won't be an issue.

Thanks.

Rich

 

[paflyer]

That road is the Belt Parkway in Brooklyn, and that particular section is right around Gravesend. It's not far from JFK. I was born and raised about 15 minutes west of there (or an hour, depending on traffic) in Bush Terminal.

Rich

Well done! I was born in Marine Park but grew up out on the Island. Stick was in my second car, (and third, and fourth now that I think about it) bought it and picked it up from a private seller and I only had short a lesson previously in my friends Duster. Lots of open road on eastern LI back in those days.

 

[warthog1984]

That's fine if you live in TMOFN.

Places like this, not so much- a real pain:

Tell any Italian driver in a big city that driving manual in traffic is a pain- let us know how long they laugh.:wink2:

 

[nddons]

I'm probably going to skew the sterotype somewhat: Being a frugal Scotsman, I chose the logical vehicle: a 2006 Porsche Cayenne S. Reason: an awsome vehicle which brings a smile every day. All wheel drive, a superb Burmeister audio system, air ride suspension which gets you over the roughest terrain, three lockable diffs for any conditions, hydraulic unlocking roll bars for rock climbing, a bullet-proof V8 which powered a 24 Hours of Daytona winner, will run all day at 150 mph (with the aerial refuelling option, otherwise about 5 hours before its tank is empty and mine is full :wink2:.) The frugal part comes now: buy one that has just come off warranty, do a through, informed PPI, wait until the owner has his first encounter with the $400.00 oil change at the dealership , then discovers that his $175,000 SUV has fallen off the depreciation cliff. Result: a wonderfull daily driver for the price of an ecobox. Caveat: must do your own maintenance, buy parts and supplies wholesale, drink the excellent coffee at the dealer, but buy nothing there: parts and supplies are still based on a 175k vehicle.

The only foreign vehicle I have ever owned was a
Land Rover Discovery II. I loved the truck, but my wife hated it. But after a few expensive oil changes and regular maintenance, the affection waned, and I went back to my Fords.

 

[Bob Noel]

The only foreign vehicle I have ever owned was a
Land Rover Discovery II. I loved the truck, but my wife hated it. But after a few expensive oil changes and regular maintenance, the affection waned, and I went back to my Fords.

hmmm, I believe my new Ford (a Fiesta) was assembled in Mexico (Cuautitlan) and used only 44% domestic (US) parts, iirc.

Kind of hard to not have a foreign vehicles these days.

 

[weilke]

hmmm, I believe my new Ford (a Fiesta) was assembled in Mexico (Cuautitlan) and used only 44% domestic (US) parts, iirc.

Kind of hard to not have a foreign vehicles these days.

Many Kias, Hondas, Subarus have higher domestic parts content than big three marketed vehicles.

 

[zaitcev]

Many Kias, Hondas, Subarus have higher domestic parts content than big three marketed vehicles.

Toyotas, too. Camry is made in Kentucky, Tacoma is made in Texas, with a local supplier base.

In general, American car manufacturing is on the rise. You'd never know it, given how unpopular Mitsubishis are, but the plant in Normal, IL, cannot keep up with the demand building Outlanders. Most go on a boat right away. Same thing with Honda: they export more than Ford (which may actually speak of Ford's more optimal global plant siting).

 

[weilke]

Tell any Italian driver in a big city that driving manual in traffic is a pain- let us know how long they laugh.:wink2:

My wife has 180k miles in DC commuter traffic on the first clutch. The car is up for replacement and I am having a hard time finding something with manual transmission without getting into a BMW or Audi.

 

[RJM62]

My wife has 180k miles in DC commuter traffic on the first clutch. The car is up for replacement and I am having a hard time finding something with manual transmission without getting into a BMW or Audi.

My Kia Soul has grown on me much more than I thought it would. It's kind of a quirky car, but a well-designed one that I still haven't found anything really annoying about.

The only mild annoyance is the "hill assist" on the manual transmission. It holds the brakes when you're stopped on a hill to help prevent the car from rolling backwards when the light changes and you release the brake. And frankly, it's really only annoying in a vague, purist, philosophical sort of way. It actually works very well.

Rich

 

[weilke]

My Kia Soul has grown on me much more than I thought it would. It's kind of a quirky car, but a well-designed one that I still haven't found anything really annoying about.

A bit small for her needs.

The only mild annoyance is the "hill assist" on the manual transmission. It holds the brakes when you're stopped on a hill to help prevent the car from rolling backwards when the light changes and you release the brake. And frankly, it's really only annoying in a vague, purist, philosophical sort of way. It actually works very well.

Lol. I have a benz e-class with that. On a trip to germany this year I rented the same car and somehow assumed it would have the same. I was 10ft down the parking deck ramp before I caught that it didn't. Agreed, if you need that crutch you should drice automatic ;-)

 

[RJM62]

A bit small for her needs.

Ah, okay. Although it grows on you, it doesn't grow that way. Although I will say it has the most comfortable rear seating of any car I've ever driven other than a Checker cab. Two adults or three kids can ride in unusual comfort in the back seat.

Lol. I have a benz e-class with that. On a trip to germany this year I rented the same car and somehow assumed it would have the same. I was 10ft down the parking deck ramp before I caught that it didn't. Agreed, if you need that crutch you should drice automatic ;-)

It's hard to come up with a reasoned argument against a technological improvement that does what it's supposed to do and works well. But yeah, I understand the feeling. I think it gets down to depriving me of the opportunity to show off my mad stick skillz. But it does work very well.

Rich

 

[MAKG1]

Jeez, all it takes is a hand brake.

Leave it to over-teched new car designers to make an elaborate feature that can break, when a much lower tech bulletproof solution exists. KISS.

"Hill assist?" I drive stick in San Francisco. It's not that hard. Kinda like remembering to lower the gear on your retract….unless you fly an Arrow.

 

[Bill]

Leave it to over-teched new car designers to make an elaborate feature that can break, when a much lower tech bulletproof solution exists. KISS.

The valving already exists in the ABS system, this is a cheap and easy thing to implement.

 

[MAKG1]

The valving already exists in the ABS system, this is a cheap and easy thing to implement.

The valves might be there, but there is complexity in control rules that wouldn't be otherwise.

Are there any other cases where the computer immobilizes your car? What happens when the VSS blows up at highway speed?

 

[wanttaja]

It's hard to come up with a reasoned argument against a technological improvement that does what it's supposed to do and works well. But yeah, I understand the feeling. I think it gets down to depriving me of the opportunity to show off my mad stick skillz. But it does work very well.

They probably said the same thing when that technological improvement first hit the market... in the 1936 Studebaker.

Ron Wanttaja

 

[MAKG1]

They probably said the same thing when that technological improvement first hit the market... in the 1936 Studebaker.

Ron Wanttaja

Are you really claiming that a 1936 Studebaker had an electronically controlled automatic braking system to avoid rolling backwards on a hill?

No way.

Maybe a functionally similar mechanical system with different interlocks, but I really doubt that, too. Heck, auto manufacturers could just barely handle automatic transmissions at the time. The valving for a hydromechanical ABS would be daunting and failure prone.

The handbrake goes back at least to the Model A Ford. And it works quite well.

 

[wanttaja]

Are you really claiming that a 1936 Studebaker had an electronically controlled automatic braking system to avoid rolling backwards on a hill?

No way.

Maybe a functionally similar mechanical system with different interlocks, but I really doubt that, too.

Depends on whether you believe Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill-holder

Doesn't matter if it was mechanical or electronically controlled, it was still an automatic device to prevent the vehicle from rolling backwards down the hill. It was an option in the '36 Stud, for all of $8.30.

Was actually surprised to see it was introduced as late as '36. When I was a kid, my dad was in the antique-car world. Friend of his had a '32 Plymouth, and could'a sworn it had the hill-holding feature, too. But maybe it was a manual lever or something....

Ron Wanttaja

 

[Matthew]

My Subaru has the hill holder feature. You can enable/disable it. It uses the electronic parking brake. When enabled - if you stop on a hill steep enough to trigger it, the parking brake grabs, then releases automatically when you step on the gas.

I don't use it. It only releases automatically if you have your seatbelt on. If I accidentally enable it (my winter gloves can bump the switch that is next to the parking brake) it sometimes triggers in my driveway that has a slight slope. I get home, pull into the driveway, put the car in park and set the brake (but it's already set, I just don't realize it), move the trashcan back where it belongs, get back in the car and don't fasten my seatbelt. I creep into the garage, stopping slightly to check the mirrors will clear. That's just enough time for the hill holder to grab the brake. Then I try to pull into the garage only to find out my brake is on and have to swear at it.

 

[MAKG1]

Depends on whether you believe Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill-holder

Doesn't matter if it was mechanical or electronically controlled, it was still an automatic device to prevent the vehicle from rolling backwards down the hill. It was an option in the '36 Stud, for all of $8.30.

Was actually surprised to see it was introduced as late as '36. When I was a kid, my dad was in the antique-car world. Friend of his had a '32 Plymouth, and could'a sworn it had the hill-holding feature, too. But maybe it was a manual lever or something....

Ron Wanttaja

Yeah, you read it, right?

It was a ball bearing valve in the brake, set off by an inclinometer. TOTALLY different from an ABS mod.

It's more like a "line lock" the off-roaders and street racers like to use. Which is not legal on public roads.

Just because something might have had a similar purpose does not mean it is the same system. This one will have totally different failure modes than an electronic control system interfering with ABS.

That thing must have been real fun on washboards. Just about the last thing you want is all the jiggling to set off the brakes in the middle of a shift. Unpaved roads were a lot more common in the 30s.

 

[Ventucky Red]

I drove one of these when I was a kid:

It definitely was NOT a babe magnet.

Two Volvo sayings:

They don't write songs about Volvos.

And in the words of Click & Clack:

Everyone who owns a Volvo swears that they are reliable cars and that they get wonderful gas mileage. But privately wonders why their car is the only exception to both.

Actually one of these holds the mileage record

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/g121/million-mile-club-the-worlds-longest-lived-cars/

And... may I add, I learned to drive in one of those...

On the other hand, I still have my Volkswagen 1989 Vanagon Camper... aka: German Winnebago. I can't tell you how many parking lot conversations this brings up...

 

[Matthew]

We had one of those VW campers back in the very early 70s. No seatbelts in the back, so if you stopped suddenly you always had to wait for the kids to climb back up off the floor.

 

[weilke]

Ah, okay. Although it grows on you, it doesn't grow that way. Although I will say it has the most comfortable rear seating of any car I've ever driven other than a Checker cab. Two adults or three kids can ride in unusual comfort in the back seat.

I actually went to the Kia dealer a couple of hours ago. Nice car, the manual is only available in the 1.6l base trim version. I have to replace the kid-hauler, I may get a Soul with auto transmission for that job.

It's hard to come up with a reasoned argument against a technological improvement that does what it's supposed to do and works well. But yeah, I understand the feeling. I think it gets down to depriving me of the opportunity to show off my mad stick skillz. But it does work very well.

Just another system that can break. I think it should be optional or something you can disable. Just like those bitching betty systems that whistle if you get too close to the curb.

 

[wanttaja]

Yeah, you read it, right?

It was a ball bearing valve in the brake, set off by an inclinometer. TOTALLY different from an ABS mod.

Immaterial. The original complaint was about the hill-holder feature itself, not about how it was accomplished. ABS is just another method of implementing it.

Ron Wanttaja

 

[RJM62]

I actually went to the Kia dealer a couple of hours ago. Nice car, the manual is only available in the 1.6l base trim version. I have to replace the kid-hauler, I may get a Soul with auto transmission for that job.

Yeah, I was skeptical about the 1.6, but it does a surprisingly competent job up and down these hills. I like the ~35 MPG I've been getting with the 1.6 and the stick, too. So I have no regrets. The Base has everything I actually care about. I'd make the same decision again.

If you're schlepping kids around, the 5-star safety rating is also a nice thing. The guy from USAA told me it saved me some coin on the insurance, as well.

The only other thing I would add, really, is that the Soul is one car that benefits a lot from a good set of winter tires. The general consensus among owners on the Soul forums is that it's just fair in snow without them. I'm a pretty good winter driver (I actually taught it for a while when I was with EMS), but I invested in a set of General Atimax Arctic studded tires for it, anyway. They were a great match for the car. We had some ass-kicking snow and ice in these parts this past winter, but with those tires, she handled it all just fine.

Rich

 

[denverpilot]

Many Kias, Hondas, Subarus have higher domestic parts content than big three marketed vehicles.

My Subaru was made in Indiana. My Ford in Mexico. Go figure.

 

[nddons]

Yeah, I was skeptical about the 1.6, but it does a surprisingly competent job up and down these hills. I like the ~35 MPG I've been getting with the 1.6 and the stick, too. So I have no regrets. The Base has everything I actually care about. I'd make the same decision again.

If you're schlepping kids around, the 5-star safety rating is also a nice thing. The guy from USAA told me it saved me some coin on the insurance, as well.

The only other thing I would add, really, is that the Soul is one car that benefits a lot from a good set of winter tires. The general consensus among owners on the Soul forums is that it's just fair in snow without them. I'm a pretty good winter driver (I actually taught it for a while when I was with EMS), but I invested in a set of General Atimax Arctic studded tires for it, anyway. They were a great match for the car. We had some ass-kicking snow and ice in these parts this past winter, but with those tires, she handled it all just fine.

Rich

I'm surprised NY allows studded tires anymore. Actually, I didn't know they still even made them.

 

[RJM62]

I'm surprised NY allows studded tires anymore. Actually, I didn't know they still even made them.

Yeah, it is kind of surprising. New York would seem to be the kind of state where a lot of people would seem to care more about keeping the roads pretty than about keeping the people driving on them alive.

Rich

 

[Ken Ibold]

I have a hang-up with Cadillacs and couldn't own one if they were the best cars in the world. It is just an association with the brand name and has nothing to do with quality of the product. Where and when I grew up, anyone with a Cadillac was either being ostentatious about how rich they were or hiding how poor they were. If they were away form home in their old Cadillac, no one knew what a shanty they lived in.

I know that it isn't logical but that doesn't change the way it is.

Substitute "Lexus" for "Cadillac" and you hit Jacksonville squarely on the head. When my kids were in high school they went to gifted magnet schools, which the school system wisely put in really horrible neighborhoods, and you'd see late model Lexi parked in front of awful shotgun shacks with plywood in the window frames and the siding falling off. (In one neighborhood, the gangs had an agreement not to get in fights near the school because they knew the cops would respond to the school but were afraid of the neighborhood a few blocks away. Students outside for PE got hit with errant bullets from the nearby gunfight. You know, modern Americana.)

 

[CharlieTango]

I bought a 2014 Silverado 1500, 4wd single cab yesterday. Last Friday the dealer dropped the price $14,500 making it cheaper than used trucks that I was considering.

I hate the thought that it is a govt motors truck but it is the model I like. Using it to tow my new spray foam rig.