CAPS deployment caught on camera near FYV

Weather looks decent, but no direct way to tell the conditions he was in when he pulled, or state of mind, his SA, etc. Not real big on second guessing guys. He made a choice, and if it turns out it wasn't perfect, it also wasn't terrible. Write off the airplane, move on. Maybe the insurance company can recoup some bucks form the avionics, etc.

No particular fan of chutes, but not a hater, either. Without the chute, I think the outcome often would be as good (or better) as with one - just a personal choice, and I don't have a dog in the fight.
 
From the radio he seem calm enough, maybe he drop below the vectoring altitude he decided it was safer to pull the chute.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Am I hearing that right? He was 3 miles from the airport at 3500' with low oil pressure?

Something seems funny here. He was easily in reach of the runway. What's the glide ratio of a Cirrus?
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Keep in mind he was 3,500 ft. MSL but XNA is 1,300 ft. MSL.

With a scattered (per ATC) to broken (per the video) layer below him at 800 feet AGL.

I don't think I'd want to put myself in a position to have to pick out a landing spot after breaking out at 800 ft., particularly when the recommended chute deployment altitude is 1,000 ft., IIRC.
 
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Yeah, having never flown a plane with CAPS take this for what it's worth, but I think the only way I'd be willing to go below MVA without engine power or ground contact (if the chute were an option) is if I were established on a precision approach with some kind of confidence that I had the energy to make the field. Of course, "low oil pressure" isn't exactly "without engine power", but I find it hard to second-guess the guy who had engine trouble in the clouds and lived to tell the tale. Maybe he'll do one of those "True Pilot Stories" recreations.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Am I hearing that right? He was 3 miles from the airport at 3500' with low oil pressure?

Something seems funny here. He was easily in reach of the runway. What's the glide ratio of a Cirrus?
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No, I don't think you're hearing it right. ATC was bugging him to cancel IFR because he wasn't maintaining Minimum Vectoring Altitude for that area.... which was in the 3300' range. He was already below that, unable to maintain altitude, and pulled the chute.

I wouldn't respond to ATC bugging me about canceling IFR. I have bigger fish to fry. "Just give me vectors and point out the airport location and distance, buddy!"

It's almost like the controller thought he was going to get a "deal" (their term) for vectoring IFR traffic too low. I would think an emergency like this would trump... but I didn't hear an emergency declared either, by either party. To be fair, this feed had multiple frequency, so it's very likely that some relevant chatter was blocked by other frequencies on the scanner.
 
hmm, i thought the G1000 was a higher workload than steam gauges, and this line from the news story proves it. Cirrus aircraft require a copilot!

"Aside from Simon, also on board were co-pilot Cliff Slinkard and passenger..." I'm surprised they're not used for training so that someone can log SIC all the time.

Just teasing, and glad it looks like they'll be OK.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Am I hearing that right? He was 3 miles from the airport at 3500' with low oil pressure?

Something seems funny here. He was easily in reach of the runway. What's the glide ratio of a Cirrus?
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According to FlightAware, he reached his cruise altitude of 10,000 and his turn-back was started just east of Lincoln -- 10 nm from KFYV (1252' elev).
 
So that's 10 nm * 1.15 sm/nm * 5280 ft/sm = 60,720 ft just to reach the airport right at impact (excluding distance added for any approach).

He has 10000 - 1252 = 8,748' AGL.

So that's a 6.94:1 glide ratio that he has to beat. Some people may say 'easy peasy' but I say not necessarily. Considering he has to perform the course reversal (energy loss) and that they vectored him to 16 instead of 34, and there was a scattered layer that was pretty close to a broken layer, I'm not faulting him at all for choosing his bacon over his tin.

Did either pilot or controller ever declare an emergency? The controller kept rattling about MVA and having to "break him out to the west". Was the controller unaware that this was an emergency? Maybe so.
 
petrolero said:
According to FlightAware, he reached his cruise altitude of 10,000 and his turn-back was started just east of Lincoln -- 10 nm from KFYV (1252' elev).
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Should have been easily doable. (Easy for me to say from my chair in the living room, and this SR22 G3 performance chart).

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You heard the controller saying he was vectoring him for a 3 mile base? I think I'd ask him to make that a 1 or 1/2 mile base, if my engine was out (or expected to become so).
 
By the way, 3500' MSL and 3 nm from the airport is an 8.1:1 glide ratio. Not sure what his energy state is at that moment.

Now all this being said, I have no idea when/if he fully lost power. But he's in the clouds and 3 miles from the airport and approaching DH for the chute... decision to pull the handle makes sense to me. :dunno:
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Should have been easily doable. (Easy for me to say from my chair in the living room, and this SR22 G3 performance chart).

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Of course, all this presumes one pitches for best glide...

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TangoWhiskey said:
You heard the controller saying he was vectoring him for a 3 mile base? I think I'd ask him to make that a 1 or 1/2 mile base, if my engine was out (or expected to become so).
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7SW mayday request vectors direct Fayetteville.

Or just hit the NRST button and see if the plane thinks you can make it - they're all fancy-pants like that. :D

Although he pitched down, he also picked up a lot of kinetic energy that he could use later. I know he's not at ideal L/Dmax for glide, but he'd have gotten some of that energy back. I don't know what to make of that rapid descent.
 
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petrolero said:
7SW mayday request vectors direct Fayetteville.

Or just hit the NRST button and see if the plane thinks you can make it - they're all fancy-pants like that. :D

Although he pitched down, he also picked up a lot of kinetic energy that he could use later. I know he's not at ideal L/Dmax for glide, but he'd have gotten some of that energy back. I don't know what to make of that rapid descent.
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Correct. Really easy to compute with the GPS. Turn direct to the field. Trim for best glide (88 KIAS at gross in this plane). Run the emergency checklist to ensure you're configured for emergency descent (prop, power, vents, flaps, gear, whatever). See what kind of "fpm" descent that ends up as, given winds, weight, etc. That should give you an idea of how many minutes you have left before you get to the ground. Now, what's the "ETE" your GPS is showing to your emergency destination? Hopefully it's less than how much glide time you have left.

Or, use the vertical navigation functions... my GNS 430W will give me a VSR (vertical speed required) to arrive at my destination 1000' AGL. That's really helpful in this scenario--I want the VSR field to be showing a value greater than what I'm actually getting while trimmed for best glide. That means I'll have some reserve once I get there.

Go practice this!
 
Turningfinal said:
Keep in mind he was 3,500 ft. MSL but XNA is 1,300 ft. MSL.

With a scattered (per ATC) to broken (per the video) layer below him at 800 feet AGL.

I don't think I'd want to put myself in a position to have to pick out a landing spot after breaking out at 800 ft., particularly when the recommended chute deployment altitude is 1,000 ft., IIRC.
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Newer Cirrus (Cirri?) have Synthetic Vision that removes all doubt as to where to find the airport, clouds or no clouds. I've flown with it for 2 years, and it is wonderful.

It just seems odd that he's calmly being vectored to what seems like an uneventful landing but then, as he's entering the pattern he pulls the rocket. I'm guessing something else happened that changed this from "no big deal" to "oh, ****!".

Like, things went from low oil pressure to seized engine, perhaps? I'm sure it will come out in the wash.
 
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timwinters said:
Hmmm...maybe I read it wrong but...



And
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Cirrus don't suck, round parachutes suck. They work, sort of, but they are not fine controllable flying machines like a Cirrus or a ram air parachute.
 
Phoenix said:
Cirrus don't suck, round parachutes suck. They work, sort of, but they are not fine controllable flying machines like a Cirrus or a ram air parachute.
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So they need a chute that has control lines hooked to the ailerons.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Newer Cirrus (Cirri?) have Synthetic Vision that removes all doubt as to where to find the airport, clouds or no clouds. I've flown with it for 2 years, and it is wonderful.

It just seems odd that he's calmly being vectored to what seems like an uneventful landing but then, as he's entering the pattern he pulls the rocket. I'm guessing something else happened that changed this from "no big deal" to "oh, ****!".

Like, things went from low oil pressure to seized engine, perhaps? I'm sure it will come out in the wash.
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Who cares? Skin, tin, ticket.

As a CFI I'm patting the guy on the back for making a legitimate lifesaving call under pressure. No time for machoism in a situation like that, particularly with loved ones on board.
 
Good outcome, and I'm not addressing this towards the accident pilot.

But it needs to be said - if your engine dies, or you suspect it may soon, turn directly towards the best available landing site (terrain permitting), and establish best glide.

If you can place your plane over an adequate runway, you should have the skills to circle down to a key position abeam the numbers and execute a power off landing on the first half of the runway. If you don't, that's something to practice until you can.

But as an instructor, I can't tell you the number of times I've pulled power on a student or BFR applicant either over or almost over an airport, watched him or her fly away from the airport a considerable distance, and then come up short of the runway - pilots are notoriously lousy at judging glide range in unfamiliar circumstances.

In the case in question, it sure seems the pilot had plenty of altitude, and it also seems he was often descending at a far faster rate than best glide would have given him. Unless there was smoke in the cockpit, it's hard for me to see why that would ever be a net positive. But in a crisis, the siren song of getting on the ground quickly can be very powerful.

Looking forward to more details on this one.
 
Recently I was 2 miles out at 1200 AGL with a slight tailwind and fully anticipating I was about to chop the power and establish best glide. . .and I didn't come close to making the runway. Put yourself in the real deal with a deck below you, hell yes I'd pull the chute if I had any doubt.
 
From the video it looks like the plane drops rather quickly and swings violently with chute deployed. With clouds being 800 scattered seems like he could have put it down safely on a road, in a field or on RWY 16... Of course you have to make the best choice in that scenario for you. Glad everyone made it out safely either way.
 
petrolero said:
Plausible. The decision height for the chute is, what, 1000 agl? They may have reached the chute DH in or above the clouds with no assurance that they could definitely make the field. In that situation you'd probably have to pull the handle, no? Cirrus-trained guys can enlighten me on the decision process.

Anyone got a tail number? N857SW
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500ft is when CAPS becomes available. Even below 500ft if there are no other plausible options, Cirrus wants you to pull the chute.
 
Turningfinal said:
Who cares? Skin, tin, ticket.

As a CFI I'm patting the guy on the back for making a legitimate lifesaving call under pressure. No time for machoism in a situation like that, particularly with loved ones on board.
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Amen to that. And yes,I agree there is some Cirrus hate comments in this thread.
 
What on God's green Earth are "Cirrus haters"? Really??? What do they hate?? Is it ignorance or envy??
 
Happy everyone was OK... well, except for the plane itself. That's the bummer.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
It's almost like the controller thought he was going to get a "deal" (their term) for vectoring IFR traffic too low. I would think an emergency like this would trump... but I didn't hear an emergency declared either, by either party. To be fair, this feed had multiple frequency, so it's very likely that some relevant chatter was blocked by other frequencies on the scanner.
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He was so calm I don't think the controller ever realized he had an emergency on his hands. Plus the controller himself can declare it if he's worried about a "deal". I don't think he sounds as worried about a "deal" as in not being able to see the aircraft below MVA, but someone from the area would have to comment on radar coverage there.

petrolero said:
Did either pilot or controller ever declare an emergency? The controller kept rattling about MVA and having to "break him out to the west". Was the controller unaware that this was an emergency? Maybe so.
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See above. I think you're right. Controller didn't know how bad it was.

FastEddieB said:
Good outcome, and I'm not addressing this towards the accident pilot.



But it needs to be said - if your engine dies, or you suspect it may soon, turn directly towards the best available landing site (terrain permitting), and establish best glide.



...


Looking forward to more details on this one.
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This. This. This. Get to the airport and then figure out how to maneuver it to a landing.

Ditto on being interested in more info.

Meanwhile, everyone is alive and unharmed back on terra firma. Pilot did his job. He could have gone for style points landing it dead stick on a runway, but there's no style points for being dead.

Also interested in why he lost oil pressure. That's not all that common in modern engines unless something wasn't put back where it belongs at the last oil change. Wonder when that was.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Am I hearing that right? He was 3 miles from the airport at 3500' with low oil pressure?

Something seems funny here. He was easily in reach of the runway. What's the glide ratio of a Cirrus?
Click to expand...

I own a G5 SR22T just like the one that went down today. I was also just this afternoon practicing simulated engine outs. It would be pretty shocking to many of you just how bad these SR22"T"'s glide. If you are in the pattern at pattern altitude and pull the power abeam the numbers, you better aim straight for the runway as soon as possible. The big 3 blade prop is like a big air brake and you lose altitude fast even at best glide 92 KIAS.

Also, BrYan said not recommended below 500', but in the G5 it is actually 600'.

All the cirrus training i have done really emphasizes to pull the chute in a situation where you are having to glide to a runway, especially if you are not above the runway and have time to evaluate your options.
 
JasonM said:
I own a G5 SR22T just like the one that went down today. I was also just this afternoon practicing simulated engine outs. It would be pretty shocking to many of you just how bad these SR22"T"'s glide. If you are in the pattern at pattern altitude and pull the power abeam the numbers, you better aim straight for the runway as soon as possible. The big 3 blade prop is like a big air brake and you lose altitude fast even at best glide 92 KIAS.

Also, BrYan said not recommended below 500', but in the G5 it is actually 600'.

All the cirrus training i have done really emphasizes to pull the chute in a situation where you are having to glide to a runway, especially if you are not above the runway and have time to evaluate your options.
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So a power off 180 in your SR22 is similar to the worn out Arrow that I rent? I wouldn't have guessed looking at the two side by side.
 
red4golf said:
So a power off 180 in your SR22 is similar to the worn out Arrow that I rent? I wouldn't have guessed looking at the two side by side.
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I must say, I'm surprised as well. I would never have dreamed that a Cirrus couldn't make the airport from 3 miles out at 2000+ feet AGL and partial power. (Assuming that he had some power.)
 
Jay Honeck said:
I must say, I'm surprised as well. I would never have dreamed that a Cirrus couldn't make the airport from 3 miles out at 2000+ feet AGL and partial power. (Assuming that he had some power.)
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Cirrus maybe could have.
The pilot maybe not.
 
CAPS saves another!! That fact can't be disputed. Although here I am sure many will find a way :)
 
EminiTrader said:
CAPS saves another!! That fact can't be disputed. Although here I am sure many will find a way :)
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CAPS sure did save another pilot.:yes: Saved the pilot from landing on a runway and getting his plane fixed.:lol:
 
I believe this particular pilot would likely rather just buy a new one...
 
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