Can't shake C19

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CoronaConcerned said:
edit: You will note this is not a request for medical advice.

My wife (60yo) came down with CV, 8 days ago.*
Fever (100°F), upper resp signs, MS pain, headache, lethargy for a few days, RapidTest positive.
She is immunosuppressed (RA; methotrexate & Cimzia).

(I got it at the same time but was fine in 72hrs)
We are both fully vaccinated, from the beginning of the year.

Her fever has left but she still coughs a ton and feels like crap.
We figure it's due to the immunosuppressives (plus she is blood type A+ if that really makes a difference) that she is not recovering.

Her PO2 has never been below 92% (we live at higher elevation). She has mild asthma and the infection has not worsened that.

So we are thinking, besides rest/fluids/nutrition/vitD/ivermectin/asa, what else can be done.

Have heard of monoclonal antibodies or convalescent plasma, but don't know much about it.

The problem right now is gaining access to medical care!
'No Dr. has appointments available' and our mistake might have been to mention being C19 positive? - so now it is feeling like she is being blacklisted, or at least at the bottom of the list as no one wants to see a positive patient in a GP setting (before, getting appointments was no problem - they were hungry for the business). We'll keep at that, but any ideas on how to get help?
She does not feel like the ER is the place for this yet. There is no urgent care within 3 hours of here. There are other reasons to avoid our hospital too (for now), suffice it to say we consider it a last resort (I'd drive her to a city hospital before we went there).

The second question is, how available is the monoclonal ab or convalescent plasma?
Does anyone know at what point these are used, which patients are considered?
This would help direct trying, or not, to get in with a Dr.

*just noticed the Ronafide thread. Maybe 8 days is too early for any of this?
Hell, Texas Governor just got ab treatment and he is not even symptomatic!
Thanks
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If she's having breathing problems at all, don't mess around online; get her to an ER. Severe symptoms are rare for people who are fully vaxxed, but the delta variant still gets though, and from what I've read, things can go downhill fast from "a bit of trouble breathing" to intubation. Getting it early is the best defence. If you have a pulse oxymeter in your flight bag, you can put it on her finger on the way, so that you can tell the ER triage nurse what her blood oxygen level is when you arrive.

Best of luck, and I hope everything turns out well for both of you.
 
Llewtrah381 said:
Sorry if you perceive it as a personal attack - absolutely not intended.

Seeing how threads of this general nature have progressed, it seems this one is headed that way too. It doesn’t appear to be reason-based but emotion- based. I find no value, and, my fault, much personal frustration with those. It’s a “gotcha” game with no apparent attempt at a discussion.

Fly safely!
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Don't mean nothing personal at all. I guess I get frustrated at all the misinformation from both sides with everyone saying their information is right and everyone else is dunce.

I've stated that our family is aware and has used vaccines but I try to make it a point to not try and lead others into what they should do. A family member just got out of a two week stay in the hospital over this virus. Actually the virus was the easy part it was the pneumonia that followed. They now have a better understanding from the experience.
 
Daleandee said:
Don't mean nothing personal at all. I guess I get frustrated at all the misinformation from both sides with everyone saying their information is right and everyone else is dunce.

I've stated that our family is aware and has used vaccines but I try to make it a point to not try and lead others into what they should do. A family member just got out of a two week stay in the hospital over this virus. Actually the virus was the easy part it was the pneumonia that followed. They now have a better understanding from the experience.
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I respectfully disagree there’s misinformation from BOTH sides. At least the way I understand “misinformation”: an intentional communication of knowingly incorrect information, especially for manipulating the opinions of others.

It’s sobering to think if the current level of misinformation - by “one side” - had occurred 50-60 years ago we’d still be living with polio in the US and smallpox in the world. Two diseases eradicated by imperfect vaccines.
 
Llewtrah381 said:
I respectfully disagree there’s misinformation from BOTH sides.
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We can then disagree. I don't think the intent was to be deceptive but your precious CDC sure had a few comings and goings on information and information changes. Admittedly it was due to trying to figure out what was really going on. IMHO we are still in the "trying to figure out what's going on" stage of this virus.

News networks make their money from viewers. There is no doubt there are left/right, red/blue networks and each side has their facts, opinions, and editorials that follow what their viewers expect them to say. I'm gonna leave it at that but you certainly understand the fact that both sides are manipulating information for their own purposes. There's really no doubt about it.
 
In regards to the CDC, the intent is important. They gave the best guidance with the data that is/was available at the time. With more data, the messaging and guidance can change.

You built a Sonex. I built a Sonex. I certainly had to go through the list of plans revisions and incorporate the changes. You likely did the same. Sonex wasn’t sharing misinformation, they were sharing the best information they had at the time, and as data and errors came to light - they did the right thing and corrected it.

The CDC certainly isn’t precious to me, but I can understand the way the scientific method works, and how hard it is to make decisions based on limited data. This happens in every business and industry.

Go read the list of links that were posted above - not just the headlines. Particularly the one that dives into the Israeli data.

Tim

Daleandee said:
We can then disagree. I don't think the intent was to be deceptive but your precious CDC sure had a few comings and goings on information and information changes. Admittedly it was due to trying to figure out what was really going on. IMHO we are still in the "trying to figure out what's going on" stage of this virus.

News networks make their money from viewers. There is no doubt there are left/right, red/blue networks and each side has their facts, opinions, and editorials that follow what their viewers expect them to say. I'm gonna leave it at that but you certainly understand the fact that both sides are manipulating information for their own purposes. There's really no doubt about it.
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Daleandee said:
I don't think the intent was to be deceptive but your precious CDC sure had a few comings and goings on information and information changes. Admittedly it was due to trying to figure out what was really going on. IMHO we are still in the "trying to figure out what's going on" stage of this virus.
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My “precious CDC”. Let’s leave that one alone…

I’m gonna guess, during your aircraft ownership time or your car ownership time or your medical care time there have been an occasion or two where the answer to an issue was not immediately clear. In fact, for the average, well-adjusted adult, we personally have had times where we’ve had “a few comings and goings on information and information changes. Admittedly it was due to trying to figure out what was really going on”. I’m gonna hazard a guess that some of those news channels you mention have helped shape your beliefs about the CDC, the vaccine, and a host of other complex issues - to their economic end.

The challenge is - what’s important at the preferred-sports-team level and what’s really important for saving people’s lives and helping our country?

During my clinically active years a colleague made an astute observation: “even crazy people get sick”. Meaning: it’s easy to get distracted by the emotions the person sitting on the exam table is provoking in you. I needed to look past that and not let it distract me from actually helping the person get well, regardless of how emotionally frustrating they were to me. So, I look at the news - from a number of sources - and work to see what’s REALLY going on. I acknowledge my emotional response and move on.

It seems like some people are happy to accept whatever the media - of either side - feeds them. What a shame. I agree - they’re selling soap by telling us all what we want to hear. That’s why I personally do my homework.
 
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Troska said:
In regards to the CDC, the intent is important. They gave the best guidance with the data that is/was available at the time. With more data, the messaging and guidance can change.
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I noted that I didn't believe the CDC had any ill intent. My point is that bad information is coming from both directions. Some does appear to be intentional. It's just foolish to think that only one side is giving misinformation. We're talking the human race here. You built a Sonex so you are smart enough to know what I'm getting at. ;)
 
Llewtrah381 said:
Is the surge there as great as in other states that unabashedly (and, frankly, politically) blocked mask mandates? I don’t think so. I think that fact helps support the idea that they may not be perfect but they are helping.
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We had mask mandates and at one point were the worst (or so I thought) off state.
 
Llewtrah381 said:
It seems like some people are happy to accept whatever the media - of either side - feeds them. What a shame. I agree - they’re selling soap by telling us all what we want to hear. That’s why I personally do my homework.
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FWIW ... sports were fun before the adults began acting like children. Haven't cared for any sports in many years (I do go watch the little league games in the neighborhood park). I don't care for news shows, I turned off talk radio a long time ago, and generally stay away from folks that are selling soap. ;)

I will from time to time view an article but the moment I sense bias in it I throw it away. It doesn't bother me to read things I may disagree with as that's how I learn. But when I understand that what I'm being fed is just someone else's opinion or cherry picked information ... I'm out.
 
Llewtrah381 said:
It’s sobering to think if the current level of misinformation - by “one side” - had occurred 50-60 years ago we’d still be living with polio in the US and smallpox in the world. Two diseases eradicated by imperfect vaccines.
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Oh man, ya, that’s a strong point! I’m sure there was a good bit of pseudoscience that floated around back in those days too, but they didn’t have the same forms of mass media that we have today to help fuel the fire.

All in all, this virus has gotten way too political and I believe that’s ultimately what’s preventing the US from getting a hold on things. If only everybody could be like New Zealand <sigh>.
 
EdFred said:
We had mask mandates and at one point were the worst (or so I thought) off state.
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Yes, we had some rough patches in the winter and as I said there was practically no one without masks, at least where I was. Right now our governor has left it up to individual municipalities to decide the mask issue. He made the point that we have one of the higher vaccine rate percentages and that's why he thinks we are ok for now.
 
RyanB said:
Oh man, ya, that’s a strong point! I’m sure there was a good bit of pseudoscience that floated around back in those days too, but they didn’t have the same forms of mass media that we have today to help fuel the fire.
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Again there is more to the story of the polio vaccine.

On April 12, 1955 the government announced the first vaccine to protect kids against polio. Within days, labs had made thousands of lots of the vaccine. Batches made by one company, Cutter Labs, accidentally contained live polio virus and it caused an outbreak.
More than 200,000 children got the polio vaccine, but within days the government had to abandon the program.

"Forty thousand kids got polio. Some had low levels, a couple hundred were left with paralysis, and about 10 died," said Dr. Howard Markel, a pediatrician, distinguished professor, and director of the Center for the History of Medicine at the University of Michigan.
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This is what may be causing a few to hesitate until more is known of the available vaccines ...
 
Llewtrah381 said:
Can you point me to the studies with clinically relevant consequences? Did they do blood gases or just measure the CO2 level under the mask? Big difference. Was blood pH impaired? Thanks!

Just curious: what do you recommend the response be to Covid - just let it spread?
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You’re right, the study I saw has been retracted. The reason? The study didn’t account for the air that entered around the mask. So my point stands. We aren’t given complete information. The mask might stop globs of snot you sneeze out but it won’t stop virus particles entering your nose when you breath or exiting you when you exhale.

Just curious, how many covid cases are caught by having someone sneeze a big glob of snot directly on you vs being exposed to dissipated tiny airborne particles?
 
Rushie said:
You’re right, the study I saw has been retracted. The reason? The study didn’t account for the air that entered around the mask. So my point stands. We aren’t given complete information. The mask might stop globs of snot you sneeze out but it won’t stop virus particles entering your nose when you breath or exiting you when you exhale.

Just curious, how many covid cases are caught by having someone sneeze a big glob of snot directly on you vs being exposed to dissipated tiny airborne particles?
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The same N95 (and further protective P100 respirators, full face masks, etc.) masks used during COVID have been used extensively in the construction and manufacturing industries for decades. Workers have to do heavy manual labor while wearing the masks for hours at a time, day after day. Where are the OSHA lawsuits over CO2 poisoning in that case? They don't exist because it never happens. The volume of air inside the mask between the face and mask it also minuscule, even if a person is taking shallow breaths.
 
Llewtrah381 said:
I meant to add this earlier:

Let’s say your statement is true and has clinical significance. Now - are you willing to step back and say “regardless of reason for the mask wearing, it’s harmful and needs to stop”? Should surgeons and OR crews stop wearing them during YOUR surgery because of that? Or, much more importantly (;)), will YOU be the one to campaign for the elimination of Halloween masks? Ya can’t be selective here…
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I have no complaints about the surgeries I’ve had. The masks seem to have had no affect on their performance. I’ve already conceded the point that it probably didn’t affect their C02 levels. However the point of surgical masks is so they don’t splat their secretions into my open abdomen or whatever. I’m still waiting for credible evidence that surgical masks prevent transmission of respiratory viruses among the general public.

Halloween masks are entirely voluntary and only for a couple of hours once a year. I’m talking about forcing five year olds to wear a mask for 8 hours a day every day for a year and a half and counting.
 
If you want to talk science.....do you know how long the immunity from the H1N1 Spanish flu lasts? A life time.... Researchers, a while ago, discovered those older folks , still alive, had immunity to that virus.
RyanB said:
Oh man, ya, that’s a strong point! I’m sure there was a good bit of pseudoscience that floated around back in those days too, but they didn’t have the same forms of mass media that we have today to help fuel the fire.

All in all, this virus has gotten way too political and I believe that’s ultimately what’s preventing the US from getting a hold on things. If only everybody could be like New Zealand <sigh>.
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Rushie said:
I have no complaints about the surgeries I’ve had. The masks seem to have had no affect on their performance. I’ve already conceded the point that it probably didn’t affect their C02 levels. However the point of surgical masks is so they don’t splat their secretions into my open abdomen or whatever. I’m still waiting for credible evidence that surgical masks prevent transmission of respiratory viruses among the general public.

Halloween masks are entirely voluntary and only for a couple of hours once a year. I’m talking about forcing five year olds to wear a mask for 8 hours a day every day for a year and a half and counting.
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My 5 year old is smart enough to ask me (and remind me if I am not paying attention) to put his mask on anytime he is around others.

Again, adults are using children as an excuse. We also "force" kids to eat their vegetables, brush their teeth, go to the doctor, sit still while we take out a splinter, learn the alphabet, look both way before crossing the street......
 
Matthew Rogers said:
The same N95 (and further protective P100 respirators, full face masks, etc.) masks used during COVID have been used extensively in the construction and manufacturing industries for decades. Workers have to do heavy manual labor while wearing the masks for hours at a time, day after day. Where are the OSHA lawsuits over CO2 poisoning in that case? They don't exist because it never happens. The volume of air inside the mask between the face and mask it also minuscule, even if a person is taking shallow breaths.
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People are different. Maybe the makeup of the air is the same (not higher C02) but the mask creates a resistance so your lungs work just a bit harder to get the required amount of air. Not a problem for a healthy laborer but seems to be a problem for some people. Even the paper surgical masks seem to change air flow characteristics. You can physically feel the air you’re breathing is warmer so you know you are rebreathing more than without a mask. For most humans under normal circumstances maybe that’s not a problem. My issue is forced masks on everyone in the public setting. For some people it is a problem.
 
Rushie said:
People are different. Maybe the makeup of the air is the same (not higher C02) but the mask creates a resistance so your lungs work just a bit harder to get the required amount of air. Not a problem for a healthy laborer but seems to be a problem for some people. Even the paper surgical masks seem to change air flow characteristics. You can physically feel the air you’re breathing is warmer so you know you are rebreathing more than without a mask. For most humans under normal circumstances maybe that’s not a problem. My issue is forced masks on everyone in the public setting. For some people it is a problem.
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Every resident of Alaska, Minnesota, Siberia breathes through a face mask all winter long, every year, old and young, infirm and healthy. They enjoy the pre-warmed air that enters their lungs and seem to not have a problem with it and have not complained to their Governors to pass laws outlawing winter face coverings. What difference is there other than perception and placebo effects? People can get "short of breath" for a variety of reasons that are purely psychological.
 
So...what's the solution for someone who's hyperventilating?....breath into a paper bag....to get some CO2. lol You need some amount of CO2 to function. ;)
Rushie said:
People are different. Maybe the makeup of the air is the same (not higher C02) but the mask creates a resistance so your lungs work just a bit harder to get the required amount of air. Not a problem for a healthy laborer but seems to be a problem for some people. Even the paper surgical masks seem to change air flow characteristics. You can physically feel the air you’re breathing is warmer so you know you are rebreathing more than without a mask. For most humans under normal circumstances maybe that’s not a problem. My issue is forced masks on everyone in the public setting. For some people it is a problem.
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Daleandee said:
This is what may be causing a few to hesitate until more is known of the available vaccines
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And this is why the FDA goes through a rigorous, multi-stage approval process now. And all of these vaccines (in the US) are completely different technology than live attenuated or killed vaccines.

Rushie said:
People are different. Maybe the makeup of the air is the same (not higher C02) but the mask creates a resistance so your lungs work just a bit harder to get the required amount of air.
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Rushie, it seems every time one of your “what if’s” is answered reasonably you counter with another unsubstantiated “what if” rather than facts.

At this point I suspect the OP’s wife is either a lot better (I sincerely hope) or hospitalized. Now I see why he chose to keep his anonymity.
 
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