Cancelled my Chech-Ride Today

[cirrusmx]

Check ride is just another flight, you might have to deal with 20 gusting 30 on your very next flight after taking off in calm. Why not deal with it on a checkride that's scheduled? In a way, this is kind of a lesson in how GA will operate forever more in the future. Every flight you can find at least 3 reasons to not go, if you always choose not to go, you get no value out of aviation and get no better.

Anybody that learns in North or West Tx is comfortable with 20-30 by the time they solo, it's often all they know.

You need to be ready for all sort of conditions and scenarios if your objective is to use GA as a traveling tool. If you are just putting around at the local area or the pattern then no comment. A pilot needs to always be learning and getting better every single flight. You should have respect of flying and the skies, but you should never be scared. Not being willing to expand your limits and get out of the comfort zone will sooner or later bite you and it will hurt.

 

[N521MA]

You need to be ready for all sort of conditions and scenarios if your objective is to use GA as a traveling tool. If you are just putting around at the local area or the pattern then no comment. A pilot needs to always be learning and getting better every single flight. You should have respect of flying and the skies, but you should never be scared. Not being willing to expand your limits and get out of the comfort zone will sooner or later bite you and it will hurt.

My cancellation was simply because I thought my DPE will not let me fly at 30kt winds and have me do ground for 4 hours!


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[N521MA]

Here I disagree with you. There is never a wrong or incorrect reason for cancelling a flight. It is far more likely you will end up regretting taking a flight you were uncomfortable with than not taking a flight you were uncomfortable with. In the grand scheme of life, waiting a few weeks is not very long.

These 11 days, after 19 month of prepping and 30 days of waiting for initial check-ride will feel like 30 year mortgage!!!!

I WANT TO FLY ALREADY; CUT THE ROPE !!!!!! )))))))) ROLF


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[redtail]

You need to be ready for all sort of conditions and scenarios if your objective is to use GA as a traveling tool. If you are just putting around at the local area or the pattern then no comment. A pilot needs to always be learning and getting better every single flight. You should have respect of flying and the skies, but you should never be scared. Not being willing to expand your limits and get out of the comfort zone will sooner or later bite you and it will hurt.

Agreed. That's why it's called a license to learn. Doesn't mean I've learned it all be the time I take my checkride.

 

[Henning]

Anybody that's flown a lot of IMC is comfortable in IMC, does that mean I should be on my PPL checkride, since I've received 3 hours of hood work?

Would you be allowed to? How about your IR ride? Would you refuse to do that in actual? The question is why cancel a check ride over something one would not cancel a regular flight for. If you'd cancel the ride for a condition that is approved for the rating you are taking the ride for, doesn't that make you defacto not qualified for the rating you want to take the ride for?

 

[N521MA]

Would you be allowed to? How about your IR ride? Would you refuse to do that in actual? The question is why cancel a check ride over something one would not cancel a regular flight for. If you'd cancel the ride for a condition that is approved for the rating you are taking the ride for, doesn't that make you defacto not qualified for the rating you want to take the ride for?

Then how do you explain that my CFI said that he will kick my ass if he finds out that I am flying in 30kt condition?




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[douglas393]

Then how do you explain that my CFI said that he will kick my ass if he finds out that I am flying in 30kt condition?




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You made a reasonable decision given the facts that were available. That others feel they would have made a different decision should have no bearing on you. I once scrubbed a flight in perfect flying weather just because something did not feel right. It was my decision and I felt no reason to validate the decision to anyone. I personally think it shows good decision making processes that you decided to cancel the flight. It was beyond what you were comfortable with, and that the end of it. As far as what your CFI said, that works while you are his student, afterwards what you do is not up to him.

 

[redtail]

Would you be allowed to? How about your IR ride? Would you refuse to do that in actual? The question is why cancel a check ride over something one would not cancel a regular flight for. If you'd cancel the ride for a condition that is approved for the rating you are taking the ride for, doesn't that make you defacto not qualified for the rating you want to take the ride for?

No


How about 40 gusting to 50? or 3sm vis for a PPL checkride?

It's a judgement call as PIC.

 

[Henning]

Agreed. That's why it's called a license to learn. Doesn't mean I've learned it all be the time I take my checkride.

Negative, the certificate is your COMMAND qualification. It says Pilot in Command, IOW you are ready for what may come your way.

 

[douglas393]

If you'd cancel the ride for a condition that is approved for the rating you are taking the ride for, doesn't that make you defacto not qualified for the rating you want to take the ride for?

Simply said... NO it does not. There are a number of things that the PPL "allows me" to do that I would not do without further training. Certainly since getting my PPL I have expanded what I feel comfortable doing, but with experience comes growth.

 

[redtail]

Negative, the certificate is your COMMAND qualification. It says Pilot in Command, IOW you are ready for what may come your way.

Oh brother'

Didn't we have this argument about 6 months ago.

 

[MAKG1]

Henning, I have to disagree.

If you refuse a checkride based on conditions otherwise considered normal, that's a problem. But that doesn't extend to all conditions.

It's legal for a VFR pilot to fly under a hurricane in Class G as long as they are clear of clouds. That would be a really stupid thing to do.

No AIRMET (not even Sierra) prohibits VFR flight on its own, but it's prudent to consider it in a go/no-go decision. A ceiling at 1100 feet with 4 miles visibility, forecast to lower, is legal (at least "right now"), but rather stupid to fly into. At a Class G airport, a 200 foot ceiling is legal during the day, as long as you can stay clear of it and land with a failed engine without "undue" risk.

It's also legal for a VFR pilot to hop in a single engine landplane under 12,500 lb in a type never seen before, as long as the gear is fixed and the engine is 200 HP or less, and it's airworthy. Passing a checkride that way seems rather unlikely, and surviving it becomes questionable.

 

[redtail]

IMO that's the problem with internet boards! The OP didn't feel comfortable attempting his checkride in the current conditions 20G30 but rather than take the licks from internet peers, he deferred it to what the DPE would "think" or "allow" him to do.

Please don't do that. You have nothing to prove by biting off more than you can chew!

The only reason I cancelled - I didn't want my DPE to think I was suicidal going out flying in a 30kt winds.

Hate myself at this point!!!

That was the #1 primary reason why I cancelled - I was sure that DPE will ask me if I had anything "good" to smoke or drink before I decided to fly him on a check-ride at 30kt winds.

#2 was - I've have quite a few flights at 30kt wind and while I enjoyed a nice 10/12kt cross-wing landing, (like the challenge) I really hated all the bumps while maneuvering, constantly trimming, changing frequencies for VOR and on a radio that is dancing to "jump around" by house if pain ) LOL

If I had to fly for a $100 hamburger and winds were right along the runway, like today - would not be even a question, although a nice CAVU is always preferred )

My cancellation was simply because I thought my DPE will not let me fly at 30kt winds and have me do ground for 4 hours!

Never second guess your PIC decisions based on someone elses skill level and experience!

 

[dukeblue219]

Check ride is just another flight, you might have to deal with 20 gusting 30 on your very next flight after taking off in calm.

Again, depends on where you are and what you are personally comfortable with. I fly in the eastern US and the winds just don't behave like that. I know that I could manage to land safely if I took off in the morning and came back 5 hours later to 30kt winds, but it's an extreme outlier assuming I thoroughly checked the weather before I left.

Most of us that are just out flying for fun or personal transportation have limits and if the weather looks like it's going to kick up and get nasty we won't go. The legitimate truth that the weather will, one day, surprise us and get bad mid-flight is a ridiculous, unsafe justification for intentionally flying into those conditions we're not proficient with. To me it's *exactly* like taking off on a PP checkride with 3sm visibility and 1500' ceilings. Yes, I am ALLOWED to do this once I get my certificate, but intentionally doing it is reckless.

Anybody that learns in North or West Tx is comfortable with 20-30 by the time they solo, it's often all they know.

And what if somebody told you that pilots in Alaska have flown in 50kts by the time they solo, so you, back in Texas, should be able to handle 50kts on your pp checkride? That's how 30kts feels to those of us who maybe once saw 15kts during our training.

 

[Henning]

IMO that's the problem with internet boards! The OP didn't feel comfortable attempting his checkride in the current conditions 20G30 but rather than take the licks from internet peers, he deferred it to what the DPE would "think" or "allow" him to do.

Please don't do that. You have nothing to prove by biting off more than you can chew!

But that's not true! The OP made a misguided determination that the DPE would fail him for deciding to go in those conditions which is NOT true. The conditions weren't the problem, the premiss was incorrect.

 

[redtail]

But that's not true! The OP made a misguided determination that the DPE would fail him for deciding to go in those conditions which is NOT true. The conditions weren't the problem, the premiss was incorrect.

If the DPE wouldn't "LET" me go in those conditions, how could he fail me for going

My cancellation was simply because I thought my DPE will not let me fly at 30kt winds and have me do ground for 4 hours!

 

[Henning]

If the DPE wouldn't "LET" me go in those conditions, how could he fail me for going

Don't ask me, the premiss wasn't mine, it was the OP's.

 

[danhagan]

Ok, now I definitely deserve a kick in ass!!! Could have been PP today!

You need to change that mindset. Anytime you decide "no-go" that was the correct decision ... end of story. After you pass your PPL, force a go-around every now and then whether you needed to or not AND announce it on the CTAF ... go arounds are a good thing as well.

Anybody that learns in North or West Tx is comfortable with 20-30 by the time they solo, it's often all they know.

I live in West Texas, trained here and get your point. However the OP is at PPL with a CFI that has been harping about good ADM for the past 50-60 hours. My checkride was performed in a 152 with crosswinds above the POH limits. I didn't want the DPE to fail me for that, so I indicated that I would wait out or cancel if I were already a PPL. He said "great decision, but I'm sure we can catch a lull after run-up and get this knocked out." Took about five minutes of constant monitoring and finally caught a "lull" right at the limit and departed. Am sure all the other landings were above the limit. Had I done it before? Well, sure and my personal was actually higher ... but the DPE wants to see good decision making so you don't end up like the recent Angel Fire NM accident.

But that's not true! The OP made a misguided determination that the DPE would fail him for deciding to go in those conditions which is NOT true. The conditions weren't the problem, the premiss was incorrect.

Might not fail him ... but might also think the guy is "macho" and soon will depart a high DA airport with 30G40 direct cross with 3 passengers.

 

[Henning]

You need to change that mindset. Anytime you decide "no-go" that was the correct decision ... end of story.



I live in West Texas, trained here and get your point. However the OP is at PPL with a CFI that has been harping about good ADM for the past 50-60 hours. My checkride was performed in a 152 with crosswinds above the POH limits. I didn't want the DPE to fail me for that, so I indicated that I would wait out or cancel if I were already a PPL. He said "great decision, but I'm sure we can catch a lull after run-up and get this knocked out." Took about five minutes of constant monitoring and finally caught a "lull" right at the limit and departed. Am sure all the other landings were above the limit. Had I done it before? Well, sure and my personal was actually higher ... but the DPE wants to see good decision making so you don't end up like the recent Angel Fire NM accident.



Might not fail him ... but might also think the guy is "macho" and soon will depart a high DA airport with 30G40 direct cross with 3 passengers.

Not been the mindset of the DEs I know. 20-30 down the runway and a reasonable showing of airmanship, why should that lead to questioning his future as something nefarious?

 

[douglas393]

Henning if he truly cancelled because he was worried about what his DPE would think and there is not a pattern of this particular DPE failing students for going in 30KT direct winds, I owe you an apology, and would agree he cancelled for the wrong reasons. I suspect however despite his assertions he cancelled because he was afraid of what the DPE would think, or because his CFI would kick his ass, he cancelled because he was uncomfortable with the winds. This I would submit is a perfectly valid reason to cancel. I got my PPL about two years ago, and have flown in winds of about 25 kts both direct and crosswind, and though I know I can do it safely, it certainly is not my preferred flying weather.

 

[Henning]

Then is he truly ready?

 

[N521MA]

Henning if he truly cancelled because he was worried about what his DPE would think and there is not a pattern of this particular DPE failing students for going in 30KT direct winds, I owe you an apology, and would agree he cancelled for the wrong reasons. I suspect however despite his assertions he cancelled because he was afraid of what the DPE would think, or because his CFI would kick his ass, he cancelled because he was uncomfortable with the winds. This I would submit is a perfectly valid reason to cancel. I got my PPL about two years ago, and have flown in winds of about 25 kts both direct and crosswind, and though I know I can do it safely, it certainly is not my preferred flying weather.

See posts above. I have no issues flying in these conditions, done it plenty of times during my 100+ hours, however what I do have an issue with is with DPE saying "bad call" to fly these winds or saying yeah, its a bit too much, so lets do ground and grills me for 4 hours; not to mention a wasted "day off" from work.

Otherwise A O K )


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[N801BH]

Flyboy.... Why don't you just take your checkride in the USA.. it is ALOT closer then going to czechoslovakia...

 

[bbchien]

Ok, now I definitely deserve a kick in ass!!! Could have been PP today!

Nah. you did good. Your first thought is usually the correct one!

 

[douglas393]

Then is he truly ready?

I know what you think, but I think this is something his DPE is going to determine. Personally, I know there are things I would not have been able to handle as well the day I got my PPL as I do now, and I would suspect the same is true for you. There are things I am allowed to do legally as a virtue of having a PPL that I know I am not compentant to do, and thus will not do them as well. As I believe you have stated before all because you are current and legal to do something, does not mean that you are safe to do it.

 

[douglas393]

See posts above. I have no issues flying in these conditions, done it plenty of times during my 100+ hours, however what I do have an issue with is with DPE saying "bad call" to fly these winds or saying yeah, its a bit too much, so lets do ground and grills me for 4 hours; not to mention a wasted "day off" from work.

Otherwise A O K )


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You know why you did what you did best. If you cancelled because you were worried about what your DPE(forget about the stupid statement your CFI made) might do, I think you would have been better off calling the DPE and seeing what his thoughts were.

 

[N521MA]

Flyboy.... Why don't you just take your checkride in the USA.. it is ALOT closer then going to czechoslovakia...

What do you mean ??? LOL
Long Island NY is not USA?

I am originally from Moscow but centuries ago.....


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[N801BH]

What do you mean ??? LOL
Long Island NY is not USA?

I am originally from Moscow but centuries ago.....


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I am just busting your chops.... The title of your thread is Chech ride.

 

[nddons]

Then is he truly ready?

Does the Navy expect their pilots to land on aircraft carriers with 100 hours of flight experience? Hell, why not? The winds are right down the deck for Chrissakes.

 

[Alexb2000]

I don't want this to sound macho or egotistical, but I now try to do all my BFR's, IPC's in the worst weather flyable. I'm not disagreeing with the OP's decision only suggesting that there is value to checking skills in hard conditions going forward. It's our nature to fly on good days given the choice and that almost always includes any checks, but using an airplane for travel means we don't get to choose. To that end I purposefully fly checks on the bad days.

Awhile back I needed an IPC, I only had one day to do it while I was in Taos. The day came and the weather was crap gusting to 50, super turbulent, IFR, and to be honest I really wanted to cancel. I needed to get it done and the CFI agreed to fly (reluctantly). Doing partial panel work, while getting bounced all over the place, in actual was great training. Several days later shooting an approach to minimums in smooth Texas air my wife said it looked like I was going to go to sleep. That kind of training is what gives you the confidence that passengers notice.

I would suggest that after the OP gets the ticket on a day the winds are similar, grab a CFI and fly the hell out of it until it's just another day at the office.

 

[N521MA]

I don't want this to sound macho or egotistical, but I now try to do all my BFR's, IPC's in the worst weather flyable. I'm not disagreeing with the OP's decision only suggesting that there is value to checking skills in hard conditions going forward. It's our nature to fly on good days given the choice and that almost always includes any checks, but using an airplane for travel means we don't get to choose. To that end I purposefully fly checks on the bad days.

Awhile back I needed an IPC, I only had one day to do it while I was in Taos. The day came and the weather was crap gusting to 50, super turbulent, IFR, and to be honest I really wanted to cancel. I needed to get it done and the CFI agreed to fly (reluctantly). Doing partial panel work, while getting bounced all over the place, in actual was great training. Several days later shooting an approach to minimums in smooth Texas air my wife said it looked like I was going to go to sleep. That kind of training is what gives you the confidence that passengers notice.

I would suggest that after the OP gets the ticket on a day the winds are similar, grab a CFI and fly the hell out of it until it's just another day at the office.

Well said / Good point. Thank you.


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[nddons]

I don't want this to sound macho or egotistical, but I now try to do all my BFR's, IPC's in the worst weather flyable. I'm not disagreeing with the OP's decision only suggesting that there is value to checking skills in hard conditions going forward. It's our nature to fly on good days given the choice and that almost always includes any checks, but using an airplane for travel means we don't get to choose. To that end I purposefully fly checks on the bad days.

Awhile back I needed an IPC, I only had one day to do it while I was in Taos. The day came and the weather was crap gusting to 50, super turbulent, IFR, and to be honest I really wanted to cancel. I needed to get it done and the CFI agreed to fly (reluctantly). Doing partial panel work, while getting bounced all over the place, in actual was great training. Several days later shooting an approach to minimums in smooth Texas air my wife said it looked like I was going to go to sleep. That kind of training is what gives you the confidence that passengers notice.

I would suggest that after the OP gets the ticket on a day the winds are similar, grab a CFI and fly the hell out of it until it's just another day at the office.

I think the OP did just fine.

I got my PPL out of Monroe, NC (KEQY), and in the Piedmont area of the Carolinas, there just didn't seem to be a lot of wind, or if there was, it was usually right down the runway, and most runways in the area are generally between 5/23 - 2/20 range. My crosswind skills were limited when I obtained my PPL - not non-existent, but just limited.

When I moved to Wisconsin, and started renting out of Waukesha (KUES), they were repairing 18/36 for the better part of the year, leaving 10/28. And it seemed like the winds were out of the north or south nearly every time I flew, and I was outside my comfort zone. So I picked some tough days and flew with an instructor, and built that skill level. When I got my IR, we flew in bad weather a lot, and I gained very significant crosswind landing skills. I'm a better pilot for it.

Still, I cancelled the flight portion of my IR checkride when the winds were if I recall 25G30, and the examiner said that was a good choice. When the rescheduled flight portion came up, it was 15G25, but I chose to fly anyway, and did fine.

The PPL is a license to learn after all.

 

[Alexb2000]

I think the OP did just fine.

I got my PPL out of Monroe, NC (KEQY), and in the Piedmont area of the Carolinas, there just didn't seem to be a lot of wind, or if there was, it was usually right down the runway, and most runways in the area are generally between 5/23 - 2/20 range. My crosswind skills were limited when I obtained my PPL - not non-existent, but just limited.

When I moved to Wisconsin, and started renting out of Waukesha (KUES), they were repairing 18/36 for the better part of the year, leaving 10/28. And it seemed like the winds were out of the north or south nearly every time I flew, and I was outside my comfort zone. So I picked some tough days and flew with an instructor, and built that skill level. When I got my IR, we flew in bad weather a lot, and I gained very significant crosswind landing skills. I'm a better pilot for it.

Still, I cancelled the flight portion of my IR checkride when the winds were if I recall 25G30, and the examiner said that was a good choice. When the rescheduled flight portion came up, it was 15G25, but I chose to fly anyway, and did fine.

The PPL is a license to learn after all.

Hopefully you didn't read my post as critical, because it wasn't intended that way at all. PPL is a license to learn, but after the ticket the learning is left up to us. We each have to identify areas of our flying that we are uncomfortable with (or have become atrophied) and attack them with training until they become routine.

I once flew 20 short field direct crosswind landings in a row because I wasn't confident in them when the winds got around 20 knots. After that the 21st was like waiting for the bus to come.

 

[jspilot]

Hopefully you didn't read my post as critical, because it wasn't intended that way at all. PPL is a license to learn, but after the ticket the learning is left up to us. We each have to identify areas of our flying that we are uncomfortable with (or have become atrophied) and attack them with training until they become routine.

I once flew 20 short field direct crosswind landings in a row because I wasn't confident in them when the winds got around 20 knots. After that the 21st was like waiting for the bus to come.

Great point. I flew on the day the OP was scheduled to take his checkride at neighboring Islip Macarthur airport, literally about 10 miles from KFRG and the winds were strong. I kept it in the pattern because I wanted to build my confidence with landing in strong wind- but I already have my PPL. If this was my checkride day I would have thought long and hard about going up flying.

There is definitely a difference between gaining experience- a good thing, and taking a checkride, which is an experience itself. Even though the day in question was certainly flyable and even a lot of fun for me to learn and practice in, I think the OP made the right call. I was getting blown around in the pattern and my downwind to base turns were more like diagonals rather than 90 turns. A strict DE might fail you for that right there even though their was not much I could do to correct it because of the strong winds.

 

[redtail]

Great point. I flew on the day the OP was scheduled to take his checkride at neighboring Islip Macarthur airport, literally about 10 miles from KFRG and the winds were strong. I kept it in the pattern because I wanted to build my confidence with landing in strong wind- but I already have my PPL. If this was my checkride day I would have thought long and hard about going up flying.

There is definitely a difference between gaining experience- a good thing, and taking a checkride, which is an experience itself. Even though the day in question was certainly flyable and even a lot of fun for me to learn and practice in, I think the OP made the right call. I was getting blown around in the pattern and my downwind to base turns were more like diagonals rather than 90 turns. A strict DE might fail you for that right there even though their was not much I could do to correct it because of the strong winds.

I took a CFI over to Mac Arthur about a year ago, to brush up on my crosswind landings on that skinny runway 33R.
That was a lot of fun and my first time there. Gotta do that again soon.

I was about to call Mac Arthur tower. It's Long-Island Tower!

 

[nddons]

Hopefully you didn't read my post as critical, because it wasn't intended that way at all. PPL is a license to learn, but after the ticket the learning is left up to us. We each have to identify areas of our flying that we are uncomfortable with (or have become atrophied) and attack them with training until they become routine.

I once flew 20 short field direct crosswind landings in a row because I wasn't confident in them when the winds got around 20 knots. After that the 21st was like waiting for the bus to come.

Not at all. I like your approach. I was actually responding more to what Henning may have been implying about whether the OP was "truly ready." (So why I copied your post I have no idea. )

If there were an "acceptable" upper limit for winds and gusts for a student to meet the minimum standards, the PTS should say so.

Just like passing the CPA exam only means you met the minimum standards for the industry at that time (as a partner told me many years ago when I was celebrating my passing of the exam ) , likewise meeting the PTS standards simply means just that. And just as Dr. Bruce's avatar says not to accept the minimum standards, exceeding these standards is something most of us strive for as we progress, either before or during the checkride, but usually after the checkride. I've seen this in my own flying. When my pax think the flight is boring, I know I'm becoming more precise, and I think that's cool. That's also why I went on to get my IR - to be more precise and a safer pilot, in addition to that flying around in the clouds stuff.

 

[douglas393]

Not at all. I like your approach. I was actually responding more to what Henning may have been implying about whether the OP was "truly ready." (So why I copied your post I have no idea. )

If there were an "acceptable" upper limit for winds and gusts for a student to meet the minimum standards, the PTS should say so.

Just like passing the CPA exam only means you met the minimum standards for the industry at that time (as a partner told me many years ago when I was celebrating my passing of the exam ) , likewise meeting the PTS standards simply means just that. And just as Dr. Bruce's avatar says not to accept the minimum standards, exceeding these standards is something most of us strive for as we progress, either before or during the checkride, but usually after the checkride. I've seen this in my own flying. When my pax think the flight is boring, I know I'm becoming more precise, and I think that's cool. That's also why I went on to get my IR - to be more precise and a safer pilot, in addition to that flying around in the clouds stuff.

Henning's opinions are often goodbut this stuff with having your PPL means you should be able to do anything the PPL allows you to do is about as wrong as he has ever been. For example there is nothing that says you cannot do mountain flying, bush flying, or aerobatics once you get your PPL. But you will not find me doing any of these things now or even then without further training.

 

[Skip Miller]

Just remember, Mother Nature hates checkrides! It is hard to get good Wx for one....

-Skip

 

[danhagan]

Not been the mindset of the DEs I know. 20-30 down the runway and a reasonable showing of airmanship, why should that lead to questioning his future as something nefarious?

It was a 2 part message. the first quote to him was to change HIS (the OPs) mindset regarding waffling after he has made a no-go decision ... IOW, make it and move on.

I know the DPE that performed my test appreciated me verbalizing what was going on in my head. That I was aware of the POH suggested cross wind limit, and that we were at and exceeding it on our ride. I feel the same as you, in that you better be ready for a huge nasty crosswind and have perfromed in them as well (especially in my area) or you one day will get a surprise. My max has been 33g39 direct crosswind ... yes I can do them and no I don't often over 25 anymore. Not that they're scary but if winds are that bad, I don't fly anymore as $6 gas in high headwinds just isn't fun.

 

[Henning]

Henning's opinions are often goodbut this stuff with having your PPL means you should be able to do anything the PPL allows you to do is about as wrong as he has ever been. For example there is nothing that says you cannot do mountain flying, bush flying, or aerobatics once you get your PPL. But you will not find me doing any of these things now or even then without further training.

If you fly in behind a 757, you may find yourself doing involuntary aerobatics. If you have to set down on a golf course with a windshield full of oil, well, that's an intro to bush flying. It's hard to go anywhere far without running into some mountains. The nice thing about learning in SoCal is you had all the environments right there. Big Bear and complex checkout in a 172RG was one of my PP-X/Cs. I moved all my personal possessions to Avalon in a 182 HP and Avalon checkout lol. I got utility out of my PP most by not having to ride the boat on my weekly commute.