CAn you restart flight training after a decade or is a do-over needed?

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nolazach

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nolazach
Hello, first post. I have 32 hours total time. 11 in a Piper Archer and the rest in a 172. I love flying and got bit by the bug at the Air Force museum in Dayton. All of my flying was out of a busy Delta airport under a mode C veil and in Bravo airspace for transitions west. So I was proficient with radio and traffic awareness. I enjoyed everything about it. What bothered me was my instructor was billing me for hours I didn't get. I figured I paid about $1800 in dead hours. He was great in the air but I was paying him $50 an hour to sit in the cafeteria and talk football.
So I left the school. Figured it would only be a few weeks then I would go elsewhere.
Weeks turn to months, months to years. It's been almost nine years since my last flight. A three leg cross country. I had seven hours solo and three night landings.




Anyway, my plans are to start the Gleim part 141 (I did 141 training not 61; still couldn't say the difference) online training, as we used the Gleim books before. After I get my written fully complete, I'd like to get my medical and training certificate (appears to be two separate things now) and restart training.


I know no one is going to give me a Skyhawk and let me take it. Though would I need to do another 30-40 hours or should I expect 15-20 to complete? At this point in my life I can better afford flying and would plan on buying a plane in the next few years. (Grumman aa-5 my favorite)
 
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Rule of thumb For certificate holders is one hour of training for every year away from flying. Some more, some less. So plan on 10 hours to get you back to where you were, and then whatever you need to be check ride ready, if you are in need of budgeting advice.

Commit yourself and do it!
 
Existing logged hours do not expire. However, skills might be so extremely rusty that some flight time is needed to bring them back to the desired level of sharpness.

Cool thing is that since you already have some familiarity from your previous training, it might not take very long.

Within an hour of flying, a good CFI can assess your skill and develop a syllabus that will have you progressing at a pace that works well for both of you.

For medical, if you do not have need or desire to become a professional pilot, and your prior medical was obtained at or after July 2016, you may qualify for a newer and simpler system known as BasicMed. Review the material on AOPA to see if this helps you. https://www.aopa.org/advocacy/pilots/medical/fit-to-fly-pilots

However if you need or desire a Third, Second, or First Class medical, do not proceed to an AME u less you know with 100% certainty that there are no current or past medical issues that are going to cause trouble. I'll include one of my cut and paste items on this in a separate reply.

For the written, you mention "Part 141 Gleim". Part 141 is for someone looking to go "career" with their flying. Is that you? If. If not, I wouldn't get stuck on 141 and look for ground school options that work well for Part 61. There are many, many to choose from today. Which one? Talk to your instructor since he or she might prefer you to use one that meshes well and is in synch with his syllabus and lesson plans.

If you are planning to work toward a professional pilot career and are attending a Part 141 school, then you must use the material they provide. That could be King, Cessna, Jeppesen, Fleming, or something of their own design. Purchasing a kit other than what they use might be useful, might be a waste of cash.

For useful texts, the FAA has all that same information as the expensive kits available for free. Go to FAA.gov and look for the Pilots Handbook of Aviation Knowledge and the Airplane Flying Handbook.

Finally, Welcome To Pilots of America! Please post your other questions as you think of them.
 
Regarding regaining your medical certification, I want to make sure you become knowledgeable about other things the FAA is going to ask.

Below is one of my copy/paste items about the FAA application for a medical certificate.



To gain confidence, and more importantly, knowledge, of what is involved with obtaining your first medical certificate, start by reviewing the instruction manual for MedXpress, the FAA's online form for applying for a medical. You can find that here: https://medxpress.faa.gov/medxpress/Content/Docs/MedXPressUsersGuide.pdf

Scroll down to page 24 of 36. This is where they ask about any medications you are currently taking (Question 17). If there are none, move to the next section. But if there are some, you will be asked to list the names, dosage, and frequency. Most medications are permitted. Some are not and will be a show stopper. Others may be an indicator of a medical item that the FAA will want to know more about. In many cases, the FAA will need a letter from your treating doctor that mention the medications, why they were prescribed, and how well they are helping you. During the examination, the Aviation Medical Examiner will ask questions about the medications and the doctors letter, fill in some blanks, and make notations on his side of the application form.

Now scroll down to page 26 of 36. This is the medical history section (Question 18). An important phrase here is "Have you ever in your life..." Review these items and see if any should be answered yes. If one or more is answered yes, then definitely do not go to an AME to obtain a medical certificate until you thoroughly know what the FAA is going to want to know about the item you checked as yes.

Some of these are minor and the documentation required is also minor. Others are big, BIG things, and while they might not be show stoppers, you will have to obtain more things that are the right things and in the right format and order in order to satisfy the FAA.

Again, do not go to an AME for a live exam until you know what information and documentation the FAA wants for the item(s) you marked "yes"​

How do you find out what the FAA wants? The best way is to have a consultation visit with an AME.

This visit does not get reported to the FAA. All it is is a information gather visit with the medical examiner to find out what you need to obtain. If you are unable to find an AME in your area to do this, then reach out to Dr. Bruce Chien in Bolingbrook, IL, www.aeromedicaldoc.com Dr. Bruce is a member here and can answer your questions on the forum. But direct emails are often more efficient and allow him to discuss things in a way he cannot on a public form.


Another important area of Question 18 is Question 18v. Alcohol and drug related motor vehicle actions. Question 18v asks about a history of “arrests or convictions involving driving while intoxicated by, while impaired by, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug.” This would include arrests or convictions for offenses that were reduced to a lower offense, such as careless driving. This also includes offenses that were expunged by the courts after a certain time period. Pilots who have been ticketed for operating under the influence while driving a golf cart or a boat have also been required to report these offenses. Remember, your signature on the Form authorizes the FAA to search the National Drivers Register.

Do not try to lie or fib or skirt the issue here.... if you are found out... it is major bad voodoo.

If you do have an alcohol offense in your past, it is not a showstopper. But there will be some added steps to demonstrate to the FAA that you are worthy of the certificate in spite of alcohol being a part of your past life.

Moving on, look at page 28 of 36 and Question 19, which asks questions about medical professionals. If all of your past doctor visits have been routine things with no major medical issues. Then the FAA will say all is good, thanks for telling us about the visits. But if there were visits for particular medical things, then additional explanations about the reason for the visit, and the doctor's findings will be needed.
_______________________________________

I hope this helps. Do continue to ask questions as you think of them.
 
On your question of how much time you need to finish? Hard for anyone of us to say since we cannot assess your skill level via an Internet forum.

So for conservative reasons, I would suggest budgeting for the full 40 hour minimum and maybe even the 50-55 hour average. Then train hard and frequent so you finish in minimum time and with lots of budget remaining.

Another cut and paste of mine is regarding the financials of primary flight training. Hopefully it might help you get all the money you need ready so lack of funds isn't a reason you need to push the pause or stop button.

PS, this is discussing starting from zero hours. With you already having some time in your book, your target dollar amount will likely be less than the $9000 I mention.


One suggestion I like to make regarding the financials. Following this plan will ensure that lack of funds isn't the reason that keeps you from training. And this plan also works to avoid getting you into any debt.
  • Plan for ~$9000.00, plus or minus for regionality. This can include aircraft rental, supplies, testing fees, books, etc.
  • Do what is necessary to fill up your money bucket to at least 60% to 66% of the total funds required or budgeted.
    • This includes taking on additional hours at work, part time jobs, neighborhood handyperson jobs, mowing dogs, walking lawns, house sitting, etc.
    • Hold a garage sale. You might be able to get as much as 10% of your funding uncluttering your house.
    • Do anything legal that increases your income
  • Once you have 60% to 66% of the money, open the tap at the bottom of your bucket and start training.
  • As you deplete money from the bottom of your bucket, continue to work the extra income jobs to add to the top of the bucket.
  • If you finish with money left over in the bucket, plan for a celebratory flight with your sweetie to a really nice dinner.
 
And let us know where you are based. Chances are there is a PoA member nearby who would be happy to connect with you
 
First, whatever you do, don't post that story about the illegal landing on Facebook. In fact you should delete it from here and never admit to creating electronic information of any kind anywhere. Here's the reason why:

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/i-got-reported-to-the-faa-not-a-satire.114495/

Okay I'm slightly tongue in cheek about never admitting to ever being on the internet but only slightly.

As to your question my husband and I both did it. We both started lessons around 20ish (separately, we hadn't met yet) and both quit before we met and married. Then we both went back, again separately, decades later. You don't forget the basic ideas but you get very rusty. You pretty much have to start from scratch but there is benefit from having learned already once. Mike is right, you should budget just like you're starting from square one. Most of the important learning happens after you get your ticket.
 
I re-started my training after 30-years. I had 20+ dual-hours in a 152 when my wife was badly injured in a ski accident. she was off work for 6-7 months so there went 1/2 of our income. after that life kept getting in the way. all my hours "counted" in terms of total time but functionally I started from the beginning.
 
I got back in after 26 years, working on instrument ticket now, do it.
 
I was where you are more or less, 13 years off from my first training. I'd say the first few hours were quicker for me than most 100% fresh students, but I quickly realized that I'd forgotten a LOT and my skills had atrophied (plus I was training in a different plane, C172 vs Cherokee 140). It all worked out and I finished with more hours than I would have expected. Why? I'm older now, my reaction times are not as good as when I was 20, my brain is not as sharp, and I had a lot of interruptions. Big one being the medical. Follow that advice first before you do much else, get assessed by a senior AME (I used Bruce, even flew out for the exam) and make sure its a CONSULTATION. Do not go live with the exam till you and the AME are 100% certain it will be issued. Complex cases can take a year, so get started on that asap.

Good luck, it can be done for sure!
 
AggieMike88 said:
And let us know where you are based. Chances are there is a PoA member nearby who would be happy to connect with you
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Based on his username, I'm going to take a WAG that he's in the New Orleans area?

"141" means a structured school, and "61" means unstructured, although this can still be at a school too. Since your situation is unique (not starting from zero), the Part 61 approach might be more appropriate, it'll give your instructor flexibility with you. If you have training materials (like books) left over from your 141 days, it's probably still perfectly useable. Show your instructor what you've already got, and he or she can give you advice, tell you the few things that have changed over the years.

Go for it! Hours are yours forever, and an hour flying is always an hour learning, even at a thousand hours, so Have No Regrets!
 
kath said:
Based on his username, I'm going to take a WAG that he's in the New Orleans area?
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I was thinking (hoping) it would be the same. I've been wanting to make a local contact down there. That way if I fly down there for a food run, we can go to a really good "only the locals know about it" type of place.
 
re:medical.

I passed one years ago. I briefly had a high BP but I got that back in check with diet and exercise. I don't have diabetes and have no drug/liquor convictions. I'm not afraid of the ME.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Existing logged hours do not expire. However, skills might be so extremely rusty that some flight time is needed to bring them back to the desired level of sharpness.

Cool thing is that since you already have some familiarity from your previous training, it might not take very long.

Within an hour of flying, a good CFI can assess your skill and develop a syllabus that will have you progressing at a pace that works well for both of you.

For medical, if you do not have need or desire to become a professional pilot, and your prior medical was obtained at or after July 2016, you may qualify for a newer and simpler system known as BasicMed. Review the material on AOPA to see if this helps you. https://www.aopa.org/advocacy/pilots/medical/fit-to-fly-pilots

However if you need or desire a Third, Second, or First Class medical, do not proceed to an AME u less you know with 100% certainty that there are no current or past medical issues that are going to cause trouble. I'll include one of my cut and paste items on this in a separate reply.

For the written, you mention "Part 141 Gleim". Part 141 is for someone looking to go "career" with their flying. Is that you? If. If not, I wouldn't get stuck on 141 and look for ground school options that work well for Part 61. There are many, many to choose from today. Which one? Talk to your instructor since he or she might prefer you to use one that meshes well and is in synch with his syllabus and lesson plans.

If you are planning to work toward a professional pilot career and are attending a Part 141 school, then you must use the material they provide. That could be King, Cessna, Jeppesen, Fleming, or something of their own design. Purchasing a kit other than what they use might be useful, might be a waste of cash.

For useful texts, the FAA has all that same information as the expensive kits available for free. Go to FAA.gov and look for the Pilots Handbook of Aviation Knowledge and the Airplane Flying Handbook.

Finally, Welcome To Pilots of America! Please post your other questions as you think of them.
Click to expand...


The schools near me are pa4t 141. The one I went to used Gleim. I was under 141 in training. Though after reading today, I found 61 to be better. I also found a school not far away that uses 61.


I plan to go to flight school having already passed the FAA written exam and only needing flight training. I also feel taking a ground course would refresh me.
 
AggieMike88 said:
And let us know where you are based. Chances are there is a PoA member nearby who would be happy to connect with you
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Kenner Louisiana, I live about 3 miles from KMSY, in a suburb of New Orleans. My home airport was KNEW.
 
jbrinker said:
I was where you are more or less, 13 years off from my first training. I'd say the first few hours were quicker for me than most 100% fresh students, but I quickly realized that I'd forgotten a LOT and my skills had atrophied (plus I was training in a different plane, C172 vs Cherokee 140). It all worked out and I finished with more hours than I would have expected. Why? I'm older now, my reaction times are not as good as when I was 20, my brain is not as sharp, and I had a lot of interruptions. Big one being the medical. Follow that advice first before you do much else, get assessed by a senior AME (I used Bruce, even flew out for the exam) and make sure its a CONSULTATION. Do not go live with the exam till you and the AME are 100% certain it will be issued. Complex cases can take a year, so get started on that asap.

Good luck, it can be done for sure!
Click to expand...


One odd thing looking back was that we would switch between planes. They only had one 172 and one archer. So I got to do a little of both. I remember the piper never wanting to stall and being really easy to fly. If it had two doors I would love it. I know I am forgetting a lot of both. I had one with FI and the other was carbded so I would have carb heat on one, not the other. I liked the bar flaps on the Piper too. I know I will need a lot of work on crosswinds, because it's always windy at KNEW.
 
AggieMike88 said:
I was thinking (hoping) it would be the same. I've been wanting to make a local contact down there. That way if I fly down there for a food run, we can go to a really good "only the locals know about it" type of place.
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I got you covered. I saw another post on food recs from the city and first reply was a tourist only place. lol

I'm a foodie, I could pay for flight training to ATP if I cut out my daily lunches. lol. Pro-tip New Orleans isn't known for Cajun food, it's all Creole here. Most confuse the two. (French+Spanish+African+Italian) vs (French-Canadian). Though not much by the airport but the airport's diner.
 
As an instructor, most of my current students are folks that are in the same boat as you. They started learning to fly anywhere from 2-10 years ago, then quit due to life, medical, or whatever. Each is unique, some retained a lot and only needed to shake the rust off, some needed a little more, and others were closer to a blank slate. Your first flight with a CFI will mostly be an evaluation of your current knowledge level, and will build from there.
 
anyone know any good CFIs out of KHDC, KNEW or KAPS?
 
Everyone has covered it pretty well especially that damn Aggie rodent dude. ;)

All I have to add is it will take as long as it takes. A lot of changes since you started, plus GPS is installed on most planes so that’s additional material to learn. Just put your nose to it and get it done this time. As far as 61 vs 141, it’s all basically the same anyway but you’d probably prefer the flexibility of 61. I’ve taught both, and a maneuver is a maneuver, taught the same. Good luck, welcome to POA, and keep us up to date on your progress.
 
Get the medical done,don’t worry about the flying hours,that only puts undue pressure on yourself. Welcome back.
 
mscard88 said:
Everyone has covered it pretty well especially that damn Aggie rodent dude. ;)

All I have to add is it will take as long as it takes. A lot of changes since you started, plus GPS is installed on most planes so that’s additional material to learn. Just put your nose to it and get it done this time. As far as 61 vs 141, it’s all basically the same anyway but you’d probably prefer the flexibility of 61. I’ve taught both, and a maneuver is a maneuver, taught the same. Good luck, welcome to POA, and keep us up to date on your progress.
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Both the planes we used had Garmin 430s. Don't know how that stacks up now.
 
nolazach said:
Both the planes we used had Garmin 430s. Don't know how that stacks up now.
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Many, MANY, aircraft in the fleet have Garmin 430's. And those are still very useable units. There has been a minor upgrade to them in past years (making them Wide Area Augmentation System capable, which increased their ability to pinpoint your location to a much smaller "circle" than before). But the buttonology and logic flow has remained the same.


Likely really new to you will be the ability to use tablet computers (iPad and Android) as Electronic Flight Bags. Programs such as ForeFlight, Garmin Pilot, WingX, Aerovie, FlyQ, FltPlanGo, and others have really revolutionized how a pilot can access information needed during both flight prep and the actual flight.
 
Welcome back. I agree with previous comment of one hour for every year off. I was off about 12 and it took me that long to get back into the saddle. For me I thought it took a bit longer as some of the tech had changed from my previous experience. I already hadn’t my Ppl though and was working on my instrument
 
AggieMike88 said:
Many, MANY, aircraft in the fleet have Garmin 430's. And those are still very useable units. There has been a minor upgrade to them in past years (making them Wide Area Augmentation System capable, which increased their ability to pinpoint your location to a much smaller "circle" than before). But the buttonology and logic flow has remained the same.


Likely really new to you will be the ability to use tablet computers (iPad and Android) as Electronic Flight Bags. Programs such as ForeFlight, Garmin Pilot, WingX, Aerovie, FlyQ, FltPlanGo, and others have really revolutionized how a pilot can access information needed during both flight prep and the actual flight.
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I see pilots using tablets on youtube videos. That's pretty cool. I saw one that even gave synthetic vision while taxiing and flying. A lot of new tech changes. My CFI ould cover the GPS most times so I would practice the VOR without cheating. It is pretty neat learing how to get around by direction of radio signals, but satellite is obviously so much better.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Yup! Sounds like a plan.

One good ground course that many here like is "Gold Method" by Russell Still who is on our forum as @write-stuff

https://www.faa-ground-school.com/
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I watched some of his videos. I was considering Gleim because I have a ton of their (2009) books and knew the system. But to be honest I would like what real world pilots have used and recommend.

There is a local Helo pilot who is a MedE and I used him last time. It was like $150 in 2009.
 
I did my PPL last winter after a layoff from 1984. Back in the last century I had 32 hours in Tomahawks. It took me another 34 last winter to get my private in a 172.

There was a little aviation in the middle as I flew 2500 hours as an EA-6B Naval Flight Officer from 87-07 though so that helped.:)
 
I took a little over 30 years off after 42 hrs of flight time. I had to do most of it over.
 
nolazach said:
I see pilots using tablets on youtube videos. That's pretty cool. I saw one that even gave synthetic vision while taxiing and flying. A lot of new tech changes. My CFI ould cover the GPS most times so I would practice the VOR without cheating. It is pretty neat learing how to get around by direction of radio signals, but satellite is obviously so much better.
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Covering up the GPS screen except for radio frequencies is something I would advocate during primary training. We need to get you competent in finding your way around through old school pilotage before letting you become a magenta line kid.
 
nolazach said:
There is a local Helo pilot who is a MedE and I used him last time. It was like $150 in 2009.
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Do you mean Aviation Medical Examiner, or AME?

Remember what we advise: no doing any live and for real examinations with an AME until you know with a certainty level beyond 1000% that you will be issued your medical certificate.

If there is any question of issuance, remain in consultation mode until all questions are resolved and issuance is guaranteed.
 
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