Can you believe this is a VIOLATED PILOT?

D

David Moeslein

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:confused: Same guy - entrusted by these dignitaries - violated by the FAA and given a 90-day suspension!

TO CLARIFY ---- Flew these people (and for 5 years after the "violation flight") before surrendering my certificate. Point is this --- after 5 years, you'd think there would be a process where you could go to the FAA and say, "Hey - this thing has been hanging around for 5 years . . . during which time I've flown 1,000+ hours, gotten TWO type ratings, and even had Clinton & Cheney on board (receiving a glowing letter from Clinton) --- Can we just consider this suspension as having been served?" BUT - the long history/precedent with the FAA is that the period of suspension is not served until the certificate has ben surrendered. As a side note, they are also not interested in "economic hardship".

It's just ironic --- that's really the point I was trying to make.
 

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Why not? Flying dignitaries doesn't make one judgement-proof! It also doen't make one immune from mistakes. I guess I don't understand what you're trying to get at here.
 
Being a trusted pilot, ATP, CFI or flying with high profile people does not insulate you from making stupid mistakes.

There are too many tragic stories in the NTSB files concerning these pilots to mention. But the Cory Lidle crash comes to mind. Pickup any copy of Aviation Safety and that person will have been involved in a crash because of stupid mistakes that were made which he obviously should not have with his experience. Not always as PIC but should have been able to help and avoid the problem. They failed as you did but Lidle's CFI is still dead.

As many people stated in the other thread take your lumps and move forward.

Now we can add quit B''ch-in', Huh, Complaining.
 
I'm really sick of this whining. It's like me complaining about getting a speeding ticket while driving my Jag, which is capable of safely traveling at far higher speeds than, say, an SUV.

Whether or not the rule is stupid, you broke it and you have to face the consequences. If you want to find sympathy, find people who don't understand the rules to whine to. You don't deserve any special treatment.
 
Well, you don't have to comply with the civilian rules when flying as a government employee....
 
Doesn't matter the company you've kept. The FAA says you busted the SFRA (or whatever they're calling it now). You don't have the evidence to prove them wrong, nobody there will give you the time of day. The rules are profoundly stupid, and the way they're being enforced is probably not entirely fair. Still doesn't matter, the FAA holds all the cards. All you can do is take your lumps and stay the hell away from DC. I doubt you are the most senior or the most qualified pilot to run into trouble in that mess.
 
A violation and being entrusted as a pilot aren't mutually exclusive. As I was saying in the other thread, everybody makes mistakes, it's how you deal with your mistakes that people judge you by.
 
Whatever dude. I'm not interested enough to be up on all the details but apparently you made a minor mistake in the wrong place and were called on it. Such is life.
 
wsuffa said:
Well, you don't have to comply with the civilian rules when flying as a government employee....
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That's not exactly true. Most government agencies require their flight crews to comply with the Part 91 flight rules unless they have an approved reason not to. In addition, the FAA operates much of its fleet under a Part 135 certificate, and therefore must comply with all applicable FAR's.
 
Local Citation 650 pilot was violated a couple years ago going into Manassas or Leesburg, can't remember which. On the descent with field in sight, Approach cleared him for the visual, instructed him to switch to local freq (don't remember if it was tower or unicom). He complied and also (out of habit) also switched squawk to 1200. Since he wasn't yet clear of the controlled airpspace by a few hundred feet, they busted him for changing squawks.

By my reckoning this ranks pretty high on the ******** meter, but they hold the cards.
 
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This happened to one the piltos that work for my CFI's outfit. They fly in and out of IAD/BWI regularly and the co-pilot punched the VFR button on the transponder and they got reamed. Co-pilot stood up, took the rap and the Captain walked. They considered themselves very lucky that the FAA didn't bust both of them. I think the co-pilot lost his ticket for 90 days.

wabower said:
Local Citation 650 pilot was violated a couple years ago going into Manassas or Leesburg, can't remember which. On the descent with field in sight, Approach cleared him for the visual, instructed him to switch to local freq (don't remember if it was tower or unicom). He complied and also (out of habit) also switched squawk to 1200. Since he wasn't yet clear of the controlled airpspace by a few hundred feet, they busted him for changing squawks.

By my reckoning this ranks pretty high on the ******** meter, but they hold the cards.
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David Moeslein said:
:confused: Same guy - entrusted by these dignitaries - violated by the FAA and given a 90-day suspension!
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What??? You've flown politicians around so you think you can do no wrong???
That dog just won't hunt, better send it to another home.
 
The rules are dumb, a waste of taxpayer money, achieve nothing, and cause loads of trouble for otherwise law- and FAR-abiding pilots. But for now we just gotta take our lumps.
 
Kelvin said:
This happened to one the piltos that work for my CFI's outfit. They fly in and out of IAD/BWI regularly and the co-pilot punched the VFR button on the transponder and they got reamed. Co-pilot stood up, took the rap and the Captain walked. They considered themselves very lucky that the FAA didn't bust both of them. I think the co-pilot lost his ticket for 90 days.
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Exactly why I program 1200 out of the VFR button around the SFRA (Scares me to even check it on deck for .25 seconds).
 
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This is intended as humor:

It's a good thing you didn't bust that airspace with Cheney on board, or you might have been shot in the face instead of dealing with a 90-day suspension.

My actual thoughts:

You screwed up. Deal with it, take the suspension, go fly LSA's or something for 90 days --do something FUN with aviation. But stop griping about it.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Go fly LSA's or something for 90 days --do something FUN with aviation. But stop griping about it.
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Interesting thought. Why would he be eligible to fly LSAs if his ticket is suspended? I don't thin that would be legal. OTOH, I don't think that there's anything to keep him from flying dual with another instructor, though I don't think the time could be logged as PIC.
 
My only problem is does the infraction warrant the punishment?

Seriously...if I had my ticket pulled for 90 days I would be grumpy but could live with it.

If my LIVELIHOOD depended on my ticket, 90 days would have be filing for bankruptcy.
 
gprellwitz said:
Interesting thought. Why would he be eligible to fly LSAs if his ticket is suspended? I don't think that would be legal.
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You think correctly. He cannot act as a required pilot crewmember or flight instructor during those 90 days.
OTOH, I don't think that there's anything to keep him from flying dual with another instructor,
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...or even flying a plane with a Pvt Pilot qualified to act and acting as PIC.
though I don't think the time could be logged as PIC.
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Interesting question -- is he still considered "rated" while his license is suspended? That's one I would have to ask the Chief Counsel.
 
The fact that someone makes a living off of his or her ticket just means that person should be that much more aware and careful of not violating the rules. We all agree the rules and punnishment are stupid. As Henning said, it's how you deal with it. If you earn your living with your ticket then you should be proficient and up on the rules enough. Nevermind how the individual in question dealt with the situation.

Sorry, no sympathy here.
 
tdager said:
My only problem is does the infraction warrant the punishment?
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The second-highest court in the land doesn't seem to think the matter is worth further judicial review.
If my LIVELIHOOD depended on my ticket, 90 days would have be filing for bankruptcy.
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As a matter of law, a pilot's dependence on his/her pilot certificate to make a living is not an issue when considering a suspension or revocation, and there are numerous cases on point, starting with Pastrana v. US, et al., 746 F 2d 1447 (1984).
 
Heck if I had a 90-day suspension I would take the time to get away from everything including flying. There are lots of things I've wanted to do that I haven't been able to do because I haven't have the opportunity to take that extended amount of time off. I need to practice for retirement. ;)
 
Everskyward said:
Heck if I had a 90-day suspension I would take the time to get away from everything including flying. There are lots of things I've wanted to do that I haven't been able to do because I haven't have the opportunity to take that extended amount of time off. I need to practice for retirement. ;)
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OK everybody, the next time you fly, file Mari's name on your flight plan. Then go do something stupid, so the woman can get some time off, for Pete's sake! :P

To the OP - The violation says very little about your piloting skills. The way you handled it with the FAA is between you and your Counsel. The way you are reacting to the suspension now that it's essentially over may say things about your character.
 
Everskyward said:
Heck if I had a 90-day suspension I would take the time to get away from everything including flying. There are lots of things I've wanted to do that I haven't been able to do because I haven't have the opportunity to take that extended amount of time off. I need to practice for retirement. ;)
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Sounds very similar to me, Mari! Except a 90 day suspension of flying for me wouldn't end up helping me much since that's what I'd want to do with my time off. Of course, I don't use my ticket to earn my living. ;)

TMetzinger said:
OK everybody, the next time you fly, file Mari's name on your flight plan. Then go do something stupid, so the woman can get some time off, for Pete's sake! :P
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That won't work for me - they won't be able to see my ponytail over the radio. Besides, Mari doesn't have blonde hair.

To the OP - The violation says very little about your piloting skills. The way you handled it with the FAA is between you and your Counsel. The way you are reacting to the suspension now that it's essentially over may say things about your character.
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+1. It's told me plenty about his character, and nothing good.
 
Please stick with the facts, and let's leave the issues of each other's character out of this.

Ron (with moderator hat on)
 
If he really didn't do anything wrong (which is not at all beyond the realm of possibility) I can't blame him for not "owning up" to anything. I rolled over to get it done, and will never feel right about it.
 
Everskyward said:
And it's too short for a ponytail. :)
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Minor details. ;)

I also hope my voice doesn't sound too girly on the radio, to me it just sounds nerdy. Oh wait, I'm an engineer.
 
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