Can someone tell me the reasoning behind the "Call for price" listings?

The Call for Price thing is a great way for a business to get your foot into their door. This goes WAY beyond aviation.


When I was shopping for my first new car (my last used car had died), I tried calling different dealerships looking for prices. Almost all of them said, come down to the dealership and we'll make you a deal. I didn't buy from them. I did buy from the dealer that gave a price for a car that was on the lot and came and picked me up in it.
 
When I had my L-5 project up for sale long years ago, it was listed as call for price. The reason I did was that, was what I had for spares for it and what had been completed on it was changing every couple of weeks.
 
Having dealt with brokers to buy and sell two planes; now talking to brokers to buy a third (have not decided which way to go) I have some perspective.
I will say that a lot of the call for price reasons have been listed (trying to up-sell, trying to cover warts, gather info, has other planes, old school technique). As a general rule for me so far, the brokers over about 50 all like the call for price. Those under 40 have tended to put price,warts, logs, images everything online.
I therefore think it is more generational on the sales side than anything.

On the flip side, calling the old coots has been informational for me. Those are the ones I call when I want to get an idea of the market. I am specific and tell them I saw the ad, I know very little about the model and I am window shopping while I gather information for a purchase in a year. I then ask if they have time to discuss the general market, and what would convince me this plane is different....
This method has allowed me to learn a fair amount of information, both about the broker and about the model of plane I am interested in. So far, I have gone back to the broker who gave me the most honest, detailed and best view while showing the most expertise in that specific market each time so far.

Tim
 
Stewartb said:
They figure you have an idea of the value and they don’t want to put potential buyers off with a high price without an opportunity to discuss the value. If I see something I’m interested in I have no problem calling to check the price. I can get more and better intel in a conversation than from a print ad.
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And if the price is more than you desire, a broker will want your info for future sales calls.
 
If I'm in the market for something and a dealer can provide it? That's a service I appreciate. I always have the option to decline a call or move an email to junk. There's nothing sinister about call for price ads. I call for price and availability of all sorts of things about 6 days a week.
 
I used to do this working at a car dealership. The reason is simply this. The price is high. If there is not a price on it then it's above market value. And/or they want serious buyers only to call. OR someone clueless enough to call and listen to the sales pitch and buy it above market or the most bang for their buck. There is a sucker born every day. I would stick to FMV unless given a reason to pay more.
 
I always figured it was a way of filtering out tire-kickers. Puts up a small barrier to entry. If all you have to do is hit "message buyer" to talk about the airplane, they'd have their hands full of idiots with no intention of buying. Make them call you, and most won't go to the trouble.

But then...I've never bought an airplane...
 
The explanations above are great! As for my explanation, as a previous manager to a car dealership. When you select filtering, and for example you select $0-$50,000 and their plane is $52,000 but they are willing to negotiate. "Call for Price" typically populates when you select minimum pricing options. Allows for search friendly results. Also, they may be asking for ALL THE MONEY (but willing to negotiate), and don't want you to keep scrolling.
 
Stearman said:
I always figured it was a way of filtering out tire-kickers. Puts up a small barrier to entry. If all you have to do is hit "message buyer" to talk about the airplane, they'd have their hands full of idiots with no intention of buying. Make them call you, and most won't go to the trouble.

But then...I've never bought an airplane...
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Then again, if the price was clearly stated those without the finances would probably skip it and not bother the seller/broker, and not turn off real buyers who would rather deal with someone who is a straight shooter.
 
CessnaTom said:
I used to do this working at a car dealership. The reason is simply this. The price is high. If there is not a price on it then it's above market value. And/or they want serious buyers only to call. OR someone clueless enough to call and listen to the sales pitch and buy it above market or the most bang for their buck. There is a sucker born every day. I would stick to FMV unless given a reason to pay more.
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What is FMV on name-the type?
 
tinerj said:
"Call for price" along with "no tire kickers" weeds out a lot.
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Yes, it weeds out potential buyers. Basic Economics 101 kicks in. Smaller demand, lower price. Bad sales move.
 
How hard is it to pick up the phone and call ? Sure, this may be a broker who tries to talk your ear off, but it's a phone, you can always say 'thanks, but I am not interested in any other planes, please don't call me back'.
 
So for the guys who don't like the call for price approach.... when you call about a plane with a listed price do you assume you'll pay full price? After all, the price was listed, so why would it occur to you to make a lower offer or negotiate on any other points?
 
Stewartb said:
So for the guys who don't like the call for price approach.... when you call about a plane with a listed price do you assume you'll pay full price? After all, the price was listed, so why would it occur to you to make a lower offer or negotiate on any other points?
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When the price is listed, I know if it warrants further investigation and consideration. Investigating an unlisted price can be one call, or a series of phone tags to even know if it's worth checking into or not ( "Not" can be out of my range, overpriced for what is is, etc.).

So I skip them. There are enough others out there with listed prices for what I'm looking for, even when I was hunting for a house and a bicycle.
 
bflynn said:
Yes, it weeds out potential buyers. Basic Economics 101 kicks in. Smaller demand, lower price. Bad sales move.
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This. Dumb move. It's like the same agents that won't divulge what the current offer is. Why? Do you have a confidentially agreement or you just want us all to play a guessing game and in which case, you won't end up with the highest price you could've gotten. The best way to sell is exposure to the largest audience (you've already lost almost half of them when you don't post a price), and bid them up against each other. Not showing a price is silly gamesmanship that I don't respect. If anything, you'd think now you would have more wasted calls from folks just to get the price. It they can't be upfront about the price, then what other relevant info am I going to have to work to get from you? One strike of distrust is now already established.

And yeah, I have a long, successful career in sales.
 
I had a house for sale once; researched the comps, priced it slightly lower, noted the price as "firm" - wanted to move on it quick. Some folks wanted to negotiate lower, of course. . .I just countered at my asking, and went about my business; except one guy couldn't accept that, left me looong messages about how I didn't know how things were done, and listing the home's shortcomings that he'd have to deal with at additional expense. I tried "nice" first, returned a call, re-stated that was my price, and if the house didn't suit his needs, I understood he'd need to look for something else. He decides to buy it, shows at settlment, with his sister as an "advisor'; ten minutes in she decides I need to come down $20K. "No ma'am, this isn't a negotiation, it's a closing. Honor the contract terms. Or not."

And she would not stop talking. Would. Not. Shut. Up. It finally dawns on me it was a semi-scan, and they assumed I'd cave to get the closing done. What turned the tide was my asking the attorney if the deposit was forfeit if the buyer didn't perform? And if not, how long could I tie it up? Ended up selling it shortly thereafter to someone else. . .
 
Sundancer said:
I had a house for sale once; researched the comps, priced it slightly lower, noted the price as "firm" - wanted to move on it quick. Some folks wanted to negotiate lower, of course. . .I just countered at my asking, and went about my business; except one guy couldn't accept that, left me looong messages about how I didn't know how things were done, and listing the home's shortcomings that he'd have to deal with at additional expense.
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I just sold an old car on craigslist. Comps for the type of car would have been around $1500. I knew it had some mechanical warts and mentioned them right in my ad. I figured it would cost about $500 for someone to fix them so I offered the car for $1000 firm. I just needed the parking space, no real urgency to sell the thing otherwise. People don't seem to understand how 'firm' and 'priced to sell' works, no the $1000 is not the new negotiating point.
A couple of people looked at it and passed. Two weeks later the first guy who ever looked at it comes back, $1000 cash in hand and drove away with the vehicle. I guess it took a couple of days to research how easy it was to change a wheel hub.
 
I broke my own rule today just as a little experiment. I called on an airplane that said "Call For Price" just to see what would transpire. Well the hard sell started immediately telling me about all of the virtues of this airplane that was and Oshkosh Grand Champion rebuilt from the ground up. Ok how many hours? Couple hundred. OK well when was all this work done? 2001. So this airplane has a few hundred hours in 17 years. Well yeah but it is kept in a climate controlled....OK well how much. No Kidding well more than 2.5X the highest priced model of this airplane I have ever seen. In their defense they did say "no bargain hunters." I was expecting 1.5X but almost 3X. Guess I will stick to my policy of Do NOT Call For Price. :)
 
DFH65 said:
I broke my own rule today just as a little experiment. I called on an airplane that said "Call For Price" just to see what would transpire. Well the hard sell started immediately telling me about all of the virtues of this airplane that was and Oshkosh Grand Champion rebuilt from the ground up. Ok how many hours? Couple hundred. OK well when was all this work done? 2001. So this airplane has a few hundred hours in 17 years. Well yeah but it is kept in a climate controlled....OK well how much. No Kidding well more than 2.5X the highest priced model of this airplane I have ever seen. In their defense they did say "no bargain hunters." I was expecting 1.5X but almost 3X. Guess I will stick to my policy of Do NOT Call For Price. :)
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What kind of plane?
 
I always figured it was the same idea as the local computer store that will give away memory sticks or chips. They give away something cheap to get you in the store where hopefully you'll spend money. If you go to the trouble of phoning they have you on the phone and can try their sell. Either that or the price is embarrassingly high and needs explanation. I have called such ads in the past, but usually with low expectations and always with poor outcome. Personally I think transparency always rules. Good photos, lots of info and a fair price.
 
Fearless Tower said:
What kind of plane?
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J5 Absolutely beautiful airplane, extremely original in its restoration. But I have seen some supper nice ones at less than half the price. I guess you have to kind of want a museum piece for the price.
 
Coming from a private party I can understand.. they want serious people and the opportunity to negotiate. That's fair enough.

Coming from a dealership though, it's a total turn off for me. They should be trying to earn my business and "lure me in" with a good price or offer. Telling me to call them just seems lazy.. "hey, you look like a sucker who really wants a new car, why don't *you* call *me*"

Mind you.. if what you have is *really* unique, where the value can be hard to establish without some hungry parties... that I can understand. But I think that whole "this is unique and prestigious" thing is abused. Maybe a custom ocean front home, collectors car, *some* airplanes fit the bill... but your every day PA-28 doesn't deserve a "call for price" just because you repainted it and tossed a G5 in. Why would I waste my time with that when there's a dozen other listings right under it with prices..?
 
bgmac said:
On the other hand "Call for a Price" weeds out low ballers.
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How? Most of the guys/gals I know that low ball love call for price. The general attitude seems it means there is a sucker who wants to negotiate.
e.g. I have friend, lets call him John. He has bought/sold over thirty planes in his life. He loves call for price, it means he can get you on the phone and brow beat the crap out of you with all sorts of little crap details.

Tim
 
Maybe what we need to do is when we see a call for price is post the link and number here. Determine an offer we think it should be sold at, and get 50 or so of us to call on the same day saying we'd be in the market for it at whatever figure we came up with. Make sure it's super low so we don't have an misconstruance of a binding agreement. Do that enough times to the same guys that always list call for price, and they might start putting a price on it.
 
DFH65 said:
J5 Absolutely beautiful airplane, extremely original in its restoration. But I have seen some supper nice ones at less than half the price. I guess you have to kind of want a museum piece for the price.
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Yeah, sounds a bit inflated. I’ve seen stuff like that (both high price/low usage) in rare/exotic biplanes and warbirds, but when there are plenty of other comparable but more reasonably priced examples, it gets silly.
 
Years ago, pre-Internet as a routine thing, I went to a car dealership, and started the "dance" - toward the end, when it was clear we weren't connecting, the salesman told me if I found a lower price elsewhere, he would meet or beat it - my response was "If I find a lower price elsewhere, why would I come back to see you?". Those were the days of the dealerships that were either high volume with lower margins, or low volume, with higher margins.
 
Tantalum said:
Coming from a private party I, he wants to sell for maximum dollar, including the value of his emotional attachment to the item.

Coming from a dealership though, he wants to rip you off, totally screw you in the deal for maximum price, value be damned.

Mind you.. if what you have is *really* unique, then hire a broker or send it to an auction house with a reputation for selling whatever it is you have.

None of the above will ever sell to me--cars, houses, airplanes, not even a bicycle on Craigslist. "Call for price" tells me that the seller knows his price is too high (it's not shown because it's embarrassing to ask that much, and everyone with a lick of sense would rule it out based on the price without his detailed explanation), that he has no respect for the eventual buyer, and that he thinks he can talk someone into paying his unrealistic price. But I value my time, and don't want the aggravation of running him down and listening to the long BS detailing why "his is better" before finally revealing his price.
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I was going to say "Because there's a sucker born every minute.".
But all the other answers are also good.
 
FloridaPilot said:
I'm just curious what benefit does it provide? It could be a waste of time for both parties.
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99% of the time, even on matters unrelated to aviation, I simply do not call vendors who say "call for price". Even if they are actually cheaper, I'd rather pay a little more than waste time with phone calls or emails. Call for price is understandable if the product is custom-built based on individual specs. But for standard things, it makes no sense to ask customers to call. They are loosing a lot of business by not listing prices.
We did the same when we bought my last car. If the dealer could not give us a price over the phone, and insisted that we come in, we moved on to the next dealer.
 
sarangan said:
If the dealer could not give us a price over the phone, and insisted that we come in, we moved on to the next dealer.
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I don't ask the price of the vehicle. I start out by saying how much I am willing to pay and include financing already filled out with the little "sign here" decals attached.
 
What gets me is the lookers who don't understand how Trade-A-Plane works. The advertiser pays per line in the print ad so there's an incentive to minimize the amount of text, but the Ad ID number (bold italics) in the print ad plugged into the search field on the Trade-A-Plane website home page takes you to the online listing with lots of photos and details about price, avionics, airframe and engine hours, etc. I didn't include the price in the print ad because I wanted to use the allocated space to describe the plane. Three people called me just to ask the price and insinuated I had left the price out just to get them to call me (call for price).
Geez.
 
Stan Cooper said:
What gets me is the lookers who don't understand how Trade-A-Plane works. The advertiser pays per line in the print ad so there's an incentive to minimize the amount of text, but the Ad ID number (bold italics) in the print ad plugged into the search field on the Trade-A-Plane website home page takes you to the online listing with lots of photos and details about price, avionics, airframe and engine hours, etc. I didn't include the price in the print ad because I wanted to use the allocated space to describe the plane. Three people called me just to ask the price and insinuated I had left the price out just to get them to call me (call for price).
Geez.
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Stan,

Of course there's exceptions. When you list "Call for price" you are competing against all of the bigger airplane sales companies, (Controller, Trade a plane..etc) They have TONS of listings that have call for price. For the record, I just purchased a vehicle and I ignored all of the "call for price listings" I try to use my time as wisely as I can. Too many listings out there with the listed price and as a consumer you can work from there. Price + Quality = Sold
 
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.... just went through this

ME: Hi, I am calling about Beech Sport you have listed on Plane For Sale Rag; how much are you asking for it?

Broker: Hi, I sell corporate jets and this thing is a real gem, I have corporate jet clients all over the the world, I am selling this thing for a friend, hold on a minute... at this point the phone sound a little muted and I hear "tell them that we won't take the trade in on G4 at this time, if they want to 5 they need to come up with the cash. Hi... back, so you're interested in what jet again?

ME: I am interested in the Beech Sport you have listed on Plane For Sale Rag How much is it?

Broker: Oh!!! The Beech Hawker.... that is a great jet, unfortunately we don't have any right now.... the phone gets muted again... and I hear... hey do we still have that Beech 900 XP out on the ramp? ....Sorry about that.... so you calling about the little prop plane?

ME: Yes, how much is it?

Broker: Hold on...... ahhhh ya, we have had about 50 calls on that thing since we listed it last week... and the owner wants nothing less that $45,000. (note is has been listed for about 3 months..)

ME: Wow... that its about $15k over what the current market is can you tell me what the added value is? New engine, interior, avionics anything, there really isn't much information in the ad?????

Broker: Look I told you I sell jets, I don't screw around with little prop planes like this, if you can't come up with the $45K lets not waste time, AAMOF, even if you had the $45K I wouldn't sell it you, you don't seem to know what the market is, these are highly sought after airplanes, go look at what the market is and get back to me... I sell jets to corporate clients all over the world...

ME: Sorry to have taken away from what it is you do, can you remind me again what you do...

Click!!~~!~
 
ejensen said:
What's wrong with offering what it is worth to you? If the seller thinks it's way low then turn it down or counter.
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There is nothing really wrong with it, I always like to negotiate for the best price I can, but it can become a waste of time. Having sold a couple of airplanes recently, you often get a LOT of calls and, for whatever reason, many of them are from people who are really hoping to find an airplane at some *huge* discount off market price. They call, they want to talk about the airplane (say it is priced at $47K like one I recently sold), they want more detailed pictures, mx logs, etc., etc., and then they offer $30K. It is a little tedious, when you have other people who are seriously interested and have more sensible offers. Oh, the joys of buying and selling airplanes. :)
 
edo2000 said:
There is nothing really wrong with it, I always like to negotiate for the best price I can, but it can become a waste of time. Having sold a couple of airplanes recently, you often get a LOT of calls and, for whatever reason, many of them are from people who are really hoping to find an airplane at some *huge* discount off market price. They call, they want to talk about the airplane (say it is priced at $47K like one I recently sold), they want more detailed pictures, mx logs, etc., etc., and then they offer $30K. It is a little tedious, when you have other people who are seriously interested and have more sensible offers. Oh, the joys of buying and selling airplanes. :)
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I sure wouldn't invest anytime or money without having some sort of price settled on.
 
ejensen said:
I sure wouldn't invest anytime or money without having some sort of price settled on.
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In a sellers market that may work. We are in a buyers market now, that means info before we negotiate price.

Tim
 
ejensen said:
What's wrong with offering what it is worth to you? If the seller thinks it's way low then turn it down or counter.
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That itself is the problem I am seeing, people just don't want to negotiate much anymore. As a buyer I know it is listed for a few points over what the seller really wants for it, and as a seller I know I'm going to get offers for a few points under what I really want to get for it.. There is an agreeable price in the middle...

With me, I want to set the expectation that if everything checks out, this is the price I am willing to pay for your aircraft.. I am not trying to low ball, I am being realistic on my price with the research I have done...
 
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