Can a pilot decowl the airplane

[jmaynard]

Prolly, but all you need is your fingers to remove the latch safety pin, and open the latch to spread the cown far enought to clear the cylinder supports and lift it off. but the prop must be removed first.

The original lower cowl for the AA-5A/B Cheetah and Tiger (and probably the Traveler, too, though I've never looked at this on one) had this problem, as well. A replacement cowl with a split nose bowl is a popular STC.

 

[Tom-D]

The true question is not if you can get it off but whether you'd like to have it in tack. It's like flying. Everybody knows that almost anybody, even a kid with MSFS experience could get a plane off the ground but it takes someone with experience to end a flight with a usable aircraft.

I could get it off...

For this reason, inexperiance people are not left alone with my aircraft.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Prolly, but all you need is your fingers to remove the latch safety pin, and open the latch to spread the cown far enought to clear the cylinder supports and lift it off. but the prop must be removed first.

Got an A&P certificate? you can do it legal.

I figured it had to do with that seam. And I had figured out the prop had to come off. And no, I do not have an A&P so I wouldn't do that operation by myself.

 

[Stache]

If I were walking around the ramp and saw a renter pilot pulling off the cowling I would want to know a couple of things.

1. Does the renter pilot have the current manual FAR 43.13(a)?
2. Does the renerpilot have the proper tools FAR 43.13(a)?
3. Is the renter pilot allowed to perform preventive maintenane FAR 43.3(g)?
4. Did the renter pilot perform a record entry FAR 43.9?

The question comes up is removing the engine cowl considered maintenancen or preventive maintenance. Could be both, but the renter pilot is not allowed to perform this task.

Just one man's opinion.

 

[Tom-D]

If I were walking around the ramp and saw a renter pilot pulling off the cowling I would want to know a couple of things.

1. Does the renter pilot have the current manual FAR 43.13(a)?
2. Does the renter pilot have the proper tools FAR 43.13(a)?
3. Is the renter pilot allowed to perform preventive maintenane FAR 43.3(g)?
4. Did the renter pilot perform a record entry FAR 43.9?

The question comes up is removing the engine cowl considered maintenancen or preventive maintenance. Could be both, but the renter pilot is not allowed to perform this task.

Just one man's opinion.

So this becomes an auto bust for you.

Because you know a pilot in transit does not get to carry the FBO's manuals or the logs.

 

[Henning]

If I were walking around the ramp and saw a renter pilot pulling off the cowling I would want to know a couple of things.

1. Does the renter pilot have the current manual FAR 43.13(a)?
2. Does the renerpilot have the proper tools FAR 43.13(a)?
3. Is the renter pilot allowed to perform preventive maintenane FAR 43.3(g)?
4. Did the renter pilot perform a record entry FAR 43.9?

The question comes up is removing the engine cowl considered maintenancen or preventive maintenance. Could be both, but the renter pilot is not allowed to perform this task.

Just one man's opinion.

1. Not necessary
2. Yes, most planes a quarter, dime or screwdriver does the job. Some don't even require that. I can pull the top cowl off a Navajo with no tools.
3. No, but this is not maintenance, this is preflight inspection.
4. Not required, entries aren't made for a preflight.

Opening the cowl is not necessarily a maintenance act at all. If you don't have to do any work, no maintenance is being performed. If one pulls the cowl off to gain visual access as they feel required by their duty to assess that the aircraft is safe for flight, first, how is that maintenance, secondly, if the FAA forbids me from taking the cowl off for preflight inspection, how much liability would shift to you personally and the FAA if I lose an oil line that I may have caught on preflight had I opened the cowling, and crash into some houses? 'Cause if I survive and get sued or worse, end up in criminal court for manslaughter, you can bet your a-- that I'm gonna drag you straight to the pits of Hell with me. You'll be answering in front of a Jury of 12 exactly why it was you stopped me from inspecting the plane to my standards, and they're gonna wanna know under what authority you usurp the PIC authority? Hell, a good lawyer and I'll be testifying to the Grand Jury at your indictment.

You may want to check with your superiors and FAA legal before you start messing with someones preflight.

 

[Jim Rogers]

You'll be answering in front of a Jury of 12 exactly why it was you stopped me from inspecting the plane to my standards, and they're gonna wanna know under what authority you usurp the PIC authority? Hell, a good lawyer and I'll be testifying to the Grand Jury at your indictment.

You may want to check with your superiors and FAA legal before you start messing with someones preflight.

Some years ago TSA stopped us from preflighting our aircraft. They said we could not exit the jetway onto the ramp. This has happened several times. They claimed we could do ALL of our preflight INSIDE the plane. I refused to go, we took a delay of over 3 hours before we could get this straightened out. In one case when we were able to exit the jetway onto the ramp to preflight we found #2 (inboard left main) tire flat.....I won't say in this family forum what I told the TSA agent & his supervisor.

 

[sba55]

Personally, I don't think this is even a legal question. In reality, the FAA will never come after you if you remove the cowling during pre-flight. As PIC, every flight is my responsibility, and it's very hard to argue that removing the cowling to check for problems is reckless or ill-advised. I've removed the cowling on rental aircraft before, and if I hadn't, I might not be here today (hello large quantity of paper towels).

-Felix

 

[TMetzinger]

Well it all comes down to whether the administrator thinks removing the cowl of an airplane for the sole purpose of a preflight inspection beneath it is "maintenance" under the FAR.

If it IS maintenance, than all the various recordkeeping/proper credentials/etc come into play.

If it ISN'T maintenance (any more than draining the sumps or opening the fuel caps or removing the dipstick during the preflight <god forbid you add a quart of oil>), then it's really up to the owner of the airplane to let a renter do it.

Hmm, maybe I'll start a thread on whether a rental pilot can add a quart of oil.

I wish this **** was clear cut, but it obviously isn't.

 

[EdFred]

I wish this **** was clear cut, but it obviously isn't.

If it was there would be a lot of bureaucrats out of a job.

 

[Stache]

As pilots and mechanics we all have an opinion. I just asked the question does the renter pilot meet the intent of part 43.

So stop and think, renter removes the cowling for an example on an aircraft like a CE-172 that has some screws in the cowling. No problem taking it off it’s a simple task unless you for get to disconnect the landing light wire. Okay performed a detailed preflight inspection on the engine no problem. Reinstalls the cowling with the screws. Question what torque would the renter pilot torque the screws that go into nut plates?

Is tightening the screwed to a specific torque called out in a maintenance manual? Is a special tool required to check the screw torque? Would a record entry be required to show the screws were installed correctly?

A person could make a record entry on a piece of paper and document what they did and its legal. So having the hard cover records is not required in this case.

Now what if, the landing light wire was not connected and the light was required for a night landing and the aircraft has an incident. Now what would renter pilot do or is it the responsibility of the owner/FBO.

There may be a good reason to remove the cowling as some have stated like the large oil spot or fuel dripping. But it should be written up as a discrepancy and given to a maintenance person to fix then return to service.

Guy keep in mind not all cowling are the same to remove. Some can be taken off with a few latches, long pins or other methods. These could be considered minor any may be taken off during a preflight.

Stop and think about it before you go off on me for my opinion. If it weren’t for lawyers we wouldn’t be having this discussion would we?

Oh, a pilot can add oil to the engine is my opinion.

Just one man’s opinion.

 

[jesse]

If I were walking around the ramp and saw a renter pilot pulling off the cowling I would want to know a couple of things.

1. Does the renter pilot have the current manual FAR 43.13(a)?
2. Does the renerpilot have the proper tools FAR 43.13(a)?
3. Is the renter pilot allowed to perform preventive maintenane FAR 43.3(g)?
4. Did the renter pilot perform a record entry FAR 43.9?

The question comes up is removing the engine cowl considered maintenancen or preventive maintenance. Could be both, but the renter pilot is not allowed to perform this task.

Just one man's opinion.

As a renter pilot--I have more then once pulled a cowling in the middle of nowhere to check something. I'm sorry, but stating that such a thing is not acceptable is ridiculous.

All of this said, I know that what I feel is not what the aviation regulations are written around. But, I can tell you, that if I want to remove the cowling for a safety reason I'm going to remove it.

Sometimes one has to decide what their willing to risk their life on. Personally I'm willing to risk a bust if I suspect that my life may rely on it. I'd also fight that bust as far as I could take it, which probably isn't very far with my limited resources.

 

[flyersfan31]

Some years ago TSA stopped us from preflighting our aircraft. They said we could not exit the jetway onto the ramp. This has happened several times. They claimed we could do ALL of our preflight INSIDE the plane. I refused to go, we took a delay of over 3 hours before we could get this straightened out. In one case when we were able to exit the jetway onto the ramp to preflight we found #2 (inboard left main) tire flat.....I won't say in this family forum what I told the TSA agent & his supervisor.

Stupid is as stupid does. I love how some TSA dip$hit tells you how to preflight. Priceless!!

 

[flyersfan31]

I have camlocs on my cowl. My 7 yr old could get it off and on with minimal supervision. If there is some sort of rocket science involved, like some old Fairchild, then sure, necessary skill should be demonstrated. But on a Cessna 182?

Disclosure - as an owner, I have a vested interest in the condition of my plane. I'm gonna take that cowl off if I think I need to check something, period. However, I'm smart enough and diligent enough to get it back on correctly. I can understand the sentiment of some that they would never allow a renter to take a screwdriver to a plane. However, some renters, like Tim and Jesse, actually know the difference between their a$$ and a hole in the ground.

 

[stingray]

As pilots and mechanics we all have an opinion. I just asked the question does the renter pilot meet the intent of part 43.

So stop and think, renter removes the cowling for an example on an aircraft like a CE-172 that has some screws in the cowling. No problem taking it off it’s a simple task unless you for get to disconnect the landing light wire. Okay performed a detailed preflight inspection on the engine no problem. Reinstalls the cowling with the screws. Question what torque would the renter pilot torque the screws that go into nut plates?

Is tightening the screwed to a specific torque called out in a maintenance manual? Is a special tool required to check the screw torque? Would a record entry be required to show the screws were installed correctly?

A person could make a record entry on a piece of paper and document what they did and its legal. So having the hard cover records is not required in this case.

Now what if, the landing light wire was not connected and the light was required for a night landing and the aircraft has an incident. Now what would renter pilot do or is it the responsibility of the owner/FBO.

There may be a good reason to remove the cowling as some have stated like the large oil spot or fuel dripping. But it should be written up as a discrepancy and given to a maintenance person to fix then return to service.

Guy keep in mind not all cowling are the same to remove. Some can be taken off with a few latches, long pins or other methods. These could be considered minor any may be taken off during a preflight.

Stop and think about it before you go off on me for my opinion. If it weren’t for lawyers we wouldn’t be having this discussion would we?

Oh, a pilot can add oil to the engine is my opinion.

Just one man’s opinion.

What if they did not remove anything at all, just saw a fastener loose. They then would not be able to tighten it. (One quarter turn for most). What if they were not at home base but preflighting from the return airport? By the way the same fastener opens the fuel door on my Bellanca, Surely I do not need an A&P to add fuel.

Dan

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Keep in mind, Stache is a fed, therefore has to toe the FAA line. He sees it as his job to let us mere mortals know that these things have certain "requirements".

Take it for what it is worth.

 

[bbchien]

ANYTIME I have service away from the home base, my standing order is, leave it uncowled in the maintence hangar. I will inspect and recowl. I have caught cotter keys missing, safety wire missing, etc, etc. All of which might have killed me.

And if Stache has a problem with that, well, he knows better.

 

[Stache]

Just for the record I am an A&P/IA who happens to try and help people out when I can. I do not advertise whom I work for, as it should not matter. I happen to know a litter bit about aircraft and some about rules and regulations.

I try and point out that not all renters are the same and pilots as well as mechanics come in all levels of knowledge and experience.

It makes common sense to tighten up loose screws, cam locks and latches during a preflight. It also makes common sense to remove the cowling to get a good look at something that may be a problem.

Its also common sense to close fuel doors and turn the cam locks to secure it after refueling.

I take poor maintenance/preventive maintenance serious as I am the guy who has picked up three fatal bodies out of aircraft from poor maintenance or lack of common sense in all there cases this year.

I mention the FAR’s because they are the minimum standards 70% or C average that should be maintained. Its when maintenance get below the 70% we have accidents.

So ask yourself when you rent a car do you take as good care of it as the one you own? Or do you treat it a bit rough now and them? Well some renter pilots do the same thing to aircraft.

Bruce is right I would want to look under the cowling after maintenance as well I have lots of tools I have found over the years and a couple were accident related.

We may not always agree, but at least we can discuss things in a civil matter and isn’t that what this board is all about.

Just one A&P/IA’s opinion

 

[Jim Rogers]

I've been flying for over 30 years now and I have run across some interesting preflights. One thing I have always checked is look inside the air scoops to see what's on top of the cylinders. Before I soloed I found a complete SK 3/8 drive socket set complete with metal case. Only missing the short 9/16 socket. I still have it as no one has ever claimed it. I have found birds nests, etc. in various places and I have found plugged pitot tubes & plugged fuel vent pipes. Gotta love mud daubers and planes that haven't flown for more than 3 weeks. Once when hanging around at a local airport watching a 182 takeoff I watched him add power and when the aircraft had rolled about 50 feet the engine quit and he came bailing out of the aircraft letting it roll ahead!!! That got my attention and I ran over to see what was wrong. It seems (this was in southwest Texas) that when he added power a rattlesnake fell down next the the rudder pedals on the right side. He told me that as far as he was concerned that rattlesnake was now solo! Another incident when I was a student pilot two of us students were preflighting our planes next to each other and she called me over with a strange look on her face. She pointed to the air scoop so I looked in. I then reached in and pulled out a bra. She took it, held it up to her and said that it DEFINITELY was not hers! She was well built but I would have to agree with her.

So preflight's are worthwhile. No telling what you'll find. Over the years I've noticed pilots go about their preflights differently. Every pilot has to assure themselves that the aircraft is safe for flight. Afterall, we are PIC, so be Pilot In Command.