Can a licensed physician in Australia or Canada complete the FAA BasicMed physical exam?

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James Darren

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Can a licensed physician in Australia or Canada complete the BasicMed physical exam? The FAA says a state licensed physician, but doesn't say specifically in the US.
 
James Darren said:
Can a licensed physician in Australia or Canada complete the BasicMed physical exam? The FAA says a state licensed physician, but doesn't say specifically in the US.
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Where the U.S. statute that created BasicMed says "state licensed physician," I believe that it's referring to a state in the United States of America.

By the way, Canada does not recognize BasicMed as valid within its borders. I'm not sure about Australia.
 
Canada has a class 4 medical which is very limiting. It’s supposed to be signed off by your family doctor, but most have never heard of it and most will be liability shy.
 
Palmpilot said:
Where the U.S. statute that created BasicMed says "state licensed physician," I believe that it's referring to a state in the United States of America.
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This is what I think too, but it would be good to know for sure. Does the FAA answer questions like this via email or phone?

Tools said:
I do know a doctor who has a Mexican license who is an AME… so it seems possible.
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There are some approved doctors in Australia (and other countries) who can do FAA Class 1 to 3 medicals. What I don't know is if a licensed physician in Australia would be recognised by the FAA to complete and sign off on the BasicMed form.
 
bbchien said:
That doc has to have a one of 50 states in the USA license to be the AME.
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That may be true, but when I worked in Taiwan, i got both the CAA and FAA physical from the same doctor at the same time. The preemployment physical conducted by the CAA was 3 days long. It included enough stuff that %25 of applicants didn't pass. It included more than I remember but some were, resting and stress test ecg, an eeg, physical dexterity tests, blood test out the wazoo, dental exam, inhalation test, eye and vision tests, a fasting for 12 hours followed by a jelly sandwich, and an hour later another blood test. We felt like if we passed that we cold have qualified for an Astronaut program.

The subsequent 6 month physicals were pretty close to a standard FAA class one, but in addition required a blood draw, and ekg each time.
 
Mikey52 said:
That may be true, but when I worked in Taiwan, i got both the CAA and FAA physical from the same doctor at the same time. The preemployment physical conducted by the CAA was 3 days long. It included enough stuff that %25 of applicants didn't pass. It included more than I remember but some were, resting and stress test ecg, an eeg, physical dexterity tests, blood test out the wazoo, dental exam, inhalation test, eye and vision tests, a fasting for 12 hours followed by a jelly sandwich, and an hour later another blood test. We felt like if we passed that we cold have qualified for an Astronaut program.

The subsequent 6 month physicals were pretty close to a standard FAA class one, but in addition required a blood draw, and ekg each time.
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I'm not at all surprised to hear that there are physicians, especially those with specialty practices, who are licensed in more than one state or nation.
 
James Darren said:
This is what I think too, but it would be good to know for sure. Does the FAA answer questions like this via email or phone?
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It's not an FAA-specific thing. The clue s that the word "State" is capitalized. In legal writing, a capitalized term usually means is is not generic term, but a defined one. I'm not going to look them all up, but there are various places in the US Code that defines the capitalize term "State" as meaning a state, territory or possession of the United States.
 
midlifeflyer said:
It's not an FAA-specific thing. The clue s that the word "State" is capitalized. In legal writing, a capitalized term usually means is is not generic term, but a defined one. I'm not going to look them all up, but there are various places in the US Code that defines the capitalize term "State" as meaning a state, territory or possession of the United States.
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If that definition applies, that would answer a question I was wondering about, which is whether physicians licensed in Puerto Rico, whose citizens are also citizens of the U.S., could do BasicMed exams.
 
Palmpilot said:
If that definition applies, that would answer a question I was wondering about, which is whether physicians licensed in Puerto Rico, whose citizens are also citizens of the U.S., could do BasicMed exams.
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Bad habit - I couldn't let it go. The problem is that, AFAIK, there is no general definition of the term in the US Code that applies if there is no specific definition somewhere. So I can see Congress (or a federal agency) neglecting to define it, but thinking it's already defined. OTOH, the more general rule is about using context, so I'm fairly comfortable that, since it is defined that way in other parts of Title 49 of the US Code, and Title 14 and 49 of the Code of Federal Regulations, it probably applies here as well. Also, I am not aware of any of those that includes foreign countries in the definition. For example, when talking about ICAO, you'll see the term "member state" used, not "state" by itself.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Bad habit - I couldn't let it go. The problem is that, AFAIK, there is no general definition of the term in the US Code that applies if there is no specific definition somewhere. So I can see Congress (or a federal agency) neglecting to define it, but thinking it's already defined. OTOH, the more general rule is about using context, so I'm fairly comfortable that, since it is defined that way in other parts of Title 49 of the US Code, and Title 14 and 49 of the Code of Federal Regulations, it probably applies here as well. Also, I am not aware of any of those that includes foreign countries in the definition. For example, when talking about ICAO, you'll see the term "member state" used, not "state" by itself.
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For what it's worth, I see that Puerto Rico is listed in the "State" dropdown on the FAA's airmen inquiry page.
 
James Darren said:
This is what I think too, but it would be good to know for sure. Does the FAA answer questions like this via email or phone?


There are some approved doctors in Australia (and other countries) who can do FAA Class 1 to 3 medicals. What I don't know is if a licensed physician in Australia would be recognised by the FAA to complete and sign off on the BasicMed form.
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The FAA does answer these questions. The answer you will likely receive is that the doctor must have a license issued by a U.S. medical licensing entity (i.e. one of the states, territory, or the District of Columbia).

From AC 68-1A (in the process of being updated, but this still applies):

The FAA relies on the determination of each State (as well as each territory and possession of the United States) as to which persons it will license as physicians. If the person holds a license as a physician issued by any State, territory, or possession, then they meet the requirement as a state-licensed physician. The FAA notes that all States license medical doctors (M.D.) and doctors of osteopathic medicine (D.O.) as physicians; although Federal and some State laws may permit the licensure of other persons, such as doctors of dental surgery (D.D.S.), as physicians. While the FAA expects that these specialists (e.g., D.D.S., dentist, podiatrist, etc.) who do not also hold an M.D. or D.O. would not have the breadth of training for a BasicMed medical examination, the FAA will rely on each State-licensed physician to determine whether he or she is qualified to conduct the medical examination.

It’s worth mentioning that the qualifications for becoming an AME are completely separate for being qualified to give BasicMed exams, so I suppose it’s possible that a foreign licensed physician could get designee status. Thst said, the BasicMed state-licensed physician requirements are hard-wired in statute and replicated, in some cases word-for-word, in part 61 and part 68.
 
Brad Z said:
It’s worth mentioning that the qualifications for becoming an AME are completely separate for being qualified to give BasicMed exams, so I suppose it’s possible that a foreign licensed physician could get designee status.
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Y'know, I'd never thought about that. It seems that a doctor could become an AME and issue 1st class medicals to airline pilots, yet not be allowed to sign off Basic Med for a 172 pilot. Weirdness.....
 
Brad Z said:
......It’s worth mentioning that the qualifications for becoming an AME are completely separate for being qualified to give BasicMed exams, so I suppose it’s possible that a foreign licensed physician could get designee status. Thst said, the BasicMed state-licensed physician requirements are hard-wired in statute and replicated, in some cases word-for-word, in part 61 and part 68.
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A requirement is that the AME have a license issued by one of the 50 states (or territories) of the United States.
 
bbchien said:
A requirement is that the AME have a license issued by one of the 50 states (or territories) of the United States.
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Not true. FAA Order 8000.95D, volume 2, chapter 2, para 3 states:

Minimum Qualifications. Applicants for designation as an AME must:
(1) Be in good standing and possess a Doctor of Medicine (M.D.) or Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine (D.O.) degree from an accredited university.
(2) All applicants (foreign and domestic) shall possess a current and unrestricted license to fully practice medicine in the state.
(3) Demonstrate past professional performance and personal conduct suitable for a position of responsibility and trust.
(4) Be able to read, write, speak, and understand the English language.
(5) Be knowledgeable of the principles of aerospace medicine.
(6) Be thoroughly familiar with instructions as to techniques of examination, medical assessment, and certification of airmen.
(7) Abide by the policies, rules, and regulations of the FAA.

Further, Chapter 4, para 2(H) mentions this:

h. Designations of Physicians in Foreign Countries. Many foreign countries do not have a medical licensing system similar to that of the United States, so it is often difficult to obtain reliable information about an applicant’s status as a physician. If a country does not have a “Certificate of Good Standing” or equivalent, like those of Canada and the United Kingdom, the international AME PA/MS must request the appropriate U.S. embassy or consulate complete a professional background check.

So physicians licensed outside the U.S. can be designated as AMEs. That said, there aren’t many due to FAA oversight challenges.
 
BradZ said:
/All applicants (foreign and domestic) shall possess a current and unrestricted license to fully practice medicine in the state
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Thank you for the correction!

Warren Silberman opined to me a long while back that that "in the state" was interpreted as a US jursidiction. Has it changed from prior versions of the order? (scrounging around for earlier version of 8000.95....)

And conversely if I lived in London I would have hard time supporting my domestic licensure- so there can't be many out there.
 
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bbchien said:
Thank you for the correction!

Warren Silberman opined to me a long while back that that "in the state" was interpreted as a US jursidiction. Has it changed from prior versions of the order? (scrounging around for earlier version of 8000.95....)

And conversely if I lived in London I would have hard time supporting my domestic licensure- so there can't be many out there.
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Good question. It goes back to at least 2020 (the issue of foreign AMEs came up when the FAA did COVID temporary regulatory relief back in April 2020) but probably much earlier.
 
I assumed that a doctor could get a medical degree in many places, but had to get licensed in the states where he/she wanted to practice medicine. Similar to what lawyers do; pass the bar in each state they want to practice law in. There isn't a "National License".

A doctor who get's his/her license in Georgia can't move to Kansas and start practicing medicine without getting licensed there.

Therefore, an Australian doctor couldn't practice medicine in Georgia if he/she didn't have a state license. Thus, if the Australian doctor had no "state license", he/she couldn't do Basic Med.

Am I mistaken?
 
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WDD said:
I assumed that a doctor could get a medical degree in many places, but had to get licensed in the states where he/she wanted to practice medicine. Similar to what lawyers do; pass the bar in each state they want to practice law in. There isn't a "National License".

A doctor who get's his/her license in Georgia can't move to Kansas and start practicing medicine without getting licensed there.

Therefore, an Australian doctor couldn't practice medicine in Georgia if he/she didn't have a state license. Thus, if the Australian doctor had no "state license", he/she couldn't do Basic Med.

Am I mistaken?
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I think what Brad was quoting about foreign AMEs is referring to an Australian physician practicing in Australia, not in Georgia.

So, at it's most liberal, I guess a good one-off argument can be made that, if (1) you are visiting Australia and (2) can find a willing physician, you can get a BasicMed exam there, even though it's worthless until you came back to the US. Although, my bet is still on "State" (capitalized) in the legislation referring to the most standard definition, a state, territory or possession of the United States.
 
Mikey52 said:
Would he also need a state license?
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Well, an an opinion on a federal legal issue doesn't require, as Bruce put it, "a attorney that practices in Federal Court." I'd guess that most attorneys who deal with federal transactional law have never appeared in a Federal court and aren't admitted to practice in any.

But otherwise, yes. There is no Federal "bar exam." Like physicians, licensing attorneys is a matter of state law. Beyond that the rules of admission to a federal court vary and can get complicated. Some variations:
• For lawyers who do practice in federal court, all districts require the attorney be licensed in at least one state.​
• Still f or lawyers who do practice in federal court, some districts require that the attorney be licensed in the same state as the federal District Court. IOW, in order to practice regularly in the US District Court for the District of Massachusetts, one must be licensed to practice in Massacusettsl.​
• Still f or lawyers who do practice in federal court, some districts do not require the at be licensed in the same state. IOW, I have never been licensed in Connecticut or Nebraska, but I have been admitted to practice in the federal courts in bot states.​
• Most state bars require a lawyer be licensed to practice in that state, but even that has an exception for lawyers handling purely federal issues. I've personally dealt with that one too.​
​
 
Didn’t mean to imply any of that counselor. I just said “ who practices in federal court”….
To paraphrase Wilbur Wright,”what is principally required is knowledge”
 
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