Can a CFI endorse you for solo

[SkyHog]

In a multiengine airplane? If so, can it also be done after getting the PPL, or only as a student pilot?

 

[KennyFlys]

In a multiengine airplane? If so, can it also be done after getting the PPL, or only as a student pilot?

I understand ATP teaches the commercial ticket in multiengine. You can be endorsed for solo in multiengine. But, you show up to them with a private pilot certificate already in hand.

61.87(e) specifies the pre-solo requirements.

Edit: As Bruce points out, the instructor must be an MEI. I don't think you'll ever find a place that teaches primary in multiengine. That would drive an insurance carrier nuts.

 

[bbchien]

In a multiengine airplane? If so, can it also be done after getting the PPL, or only as a student pilot?

No a CFI cannot do that, unless he's a CFI-MEI.

Otherwise the questions are both yes, and yes. SOME people with means learn to fly in Multis. We (pretty much the CFI community as a whole) discourage piling on the tasks in the initial learning stages. It goes MUCH slower. Heck you can do your primary in a 737 if you have the $$s and time.

 

[wabower]

No a CFI cannot do that, unless he's a CFI-MEI.

Otherwise the questions are both yes, and yes. SOME people with means learn to fly in Multis. We (pretty much the CFI community as a whole) discourage piling on the tasks in the initial learning stages. It goes MUCH slower. Heck you can do your primary in a 737 if you have the $$s and time.

I know a guy who had a Lear 24 while he was in college. He thought about learning to fly it, but found he could have much more fun in the back with the ladies he was able to attract, and Dad was providing a crew anyway.

PS: He now has two G-V's, but has found the girls are even more expensive so he now flies without them.

 

[poadeleted20]

It's not the same endorsement as Student Pilots get (61.31(d) vs 61.89(n)(1)), but yes, a CFI-AME can endorse a PP-ASEL for solo in a multiengine airplane.

 

[Everskyward]

It's not the same endorsement as Student Pilots get (61.31(d) vs 61.89(n)(1)), but yes, a CFI-AME can endorse a PP-ASEL for solo in a multiengine airplane.

I understand the multiengine part but I've always wondered how you could get a private in a two pilot airplane like the ones named in the previous posts (Lear 24 and 737). How could you solo either one of those?

 

[bbchien]

I understand the multiengine part but I've always wondered how you could get a private in a two pilot airplane like the ones named in the previous posts (Lear 24 and 737). How could you solo either one of those?

Hmmmn. The way it's done USN style is you sit in the command seat, the Instructor is in the right seat, the check airman runs the engineer's panel. That's how you qualify in an E188.

Come to think of it, I have NO idea how you do that in the civilian world.

 

[Everskyward]

In those you don't solo. The 2-IC is the CFI. You do this right through to the checkride where the inspector sits in the jumpseat.

This is how you qualify in the E188 which is a 3-crew a/c.

How do you meet the solo hour requirement for a private then when solo means nobody else in the aircraft.

 

[KennyFlys]

How do you meet the solo hour requirement for a private then when solo means nobody else in the aircraft.

I doubt military training has such minimum requirements. The way I understand it, you meet certain criteria at a given point or you become close to toast. Fail a second attempt and you are toast.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

How do you meet the solo hour requirement for a private then when solo means nobody else in the aircraft.

I thought I saw an exception that would allow this, but it turned out to be applicable to Airships. In answer to your question, I don't think you can. Which means I don't think you CAN get a PPL in a plane like that. Besides, the type rating that is required is to ATP standards regardless of rating sought. Not sure if I would want to take on that level of scrutiny for the PPL.

 

[Everskyward]

I doubt military training has such minimum requirements. The way I understand it, you meet certain criteria at a given point or you become close to toast. Fail a second attempt and you are toast.

I wasn't talking about military training which may have a whole different set of rules.

You occasionally hear people say that you can get your private in a Lear or some other two-pilot aircraft. I agree that you can take the private checkride in a Lear, but you need to complete the solo requirements in some airplane that you can fly solo. You cannot solo a Lear and if there is another pilot on board you are not solo.

 

[bbchien]

I wasn't talking about military training which may have a whole different set of rules.

You occasionally hear people say that you can get your private in a Lear or some other two-pilot aircraft. I agree that you can take the private checkride in a Lear, but you need to complete the solo requirements in some airplane that you can fly solo. You cannot solo a Lear and if there is another pilot on board you are not solo.

Hmmn. You're literally correct.

Let me revise my ad hominem. "You can get your pvt asel in a C550 if you have the $$s and cahones. It's just pretty stupid to do so"

 

[KennyFlys]

You occasionally hear people say that you can get your private in a Lear or some other two-pilot aircraft. I agree that you can take the private checkride in a Lear, but you need to complete the solo requirements in some airplane that you can fly solo. You cannot solo a Lear and if there is another pilot on board you are not solo.

That was something I was thinking about earlier when I was brainstorming. Unfortunately, I was also getting fried on some other issues I was dealing with so my post was during episodes of being on hold.

That's when I was writing about an authorized instructor providing the instructional requirements and the student still being able to log the time as PIC. But then, what about the required solo time? You can't solo an aircraft with a multi-crew requirement.

I thought of it... I just didn't write it down.

Edit: Come to think of it... that was on a different thread. Gosh, I need a nap!

 

[Everskyward]

Let me revise my ad hominem. "You can get your pvt asel in a C550 if you have the $$s and cahones. It's just pretty stupid to do so"

OK, I can go with that.

 

[KennyFlys]

I think Bruce is delicately addressing the concept of... "Just because you can doesn't mean you should."

 

[poadeleted20]

Read 61.109(b) (there are no 2-pilots required singles) very carefully. While you cannot complete all your training requirements in a 2-pilots required airplane, there is no requirement that you solo a 2-pilots required airplane in order to take the practical test ("get your license") in one. You'll just have to do your solo stuff in something requiring only one pilot. You'll also get a pilot certificate valid only with a qualified SIC aboard, even in a 1-pilot aircraft.