Camguard Anyone?

Yep. I do. I believe their claims as well as the results from some independent experiments others have done.
 
Geico266 said:
Anyone use Camguard in their oil?

Thoughts?
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Yes, Phillips X-C and Camguard. Ed Collins gave me a call one day and explained the issues quite well, we had an interesting conversation for over an hour. There are literally millions of dollars of high end research that went into formulating Camguard, much of it at Exxon's lab in search of making "The best aviation motor oil." Unfortunately they decided to dump all the research and just copy the Aeroshell SemiSyn formula.
 
Yes. Camguard and Phillips 20-50w. Don't know if it really works for sure, but after obsessive reading on the subject I decided Camguard. It is worth the money as a sleeping. I don't fly my plane every day, and sometimes not for over a week or two at a time, so thoughts of corrosion kept me up at night. Since I have mentally convinced myself and I am resolved, I can now rest.
 
Yes. Don't know if it'll help but haven't read anything that says it'll hurt yet.

Definitely makes the oil feel weird. Looks a little different on the dipstick too. Don't know how to describe it other than "clingy"? Wants to stay on hands, dipstick, whatever... more. Where straight oil would run off there's always a "film" left on things.

Just observation. Also seems like you can see it "separate" a bit when there's a thin coating on the dipstick so it's still covering the whole dipstick but there are color variations to it. Especially toward oil change time. Not a consistent "blackish brown" but that color mixed with a brighter yellowish color that clings to the stick wherever there isn't blackish brown oil.

I can see why they claim it'll hang on to vertical surfaces and keep them coated inside the engine. Very weird stuff.
 
I recently switched from aeroshell 15w-50 to Phillips 20w-50 and camguard

I had a nagging issue with pushrod seal leaks, those have greatly diminished.
 
Use aero shell 15w/50 supposed to have cam guard in it.
 
I just started using it. I don't know if it was Dave above or someone else from mooneyspace that got me started. I'm the only one that flies the plane so there can be 3-4 weeks between flights. $25 at each oil change isn't horrible in aviation circles.
 
Any comments about CamGard use with those wrap spring style starter adapters? (continental, I think)
 
jhausch said:
Any comments about CamGard use with those wrap spring style starter adapters? (continental, I think)
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Camguard is not the same anti scuffing agent required on some Lycomings that can cause slippage issues with those TCM starter adaptors.
 
I don't because use of any oil additives voids any engine warranty from Rotax. But my understanding is the Aeroshell Sport Plus 4 semi-synthetic oil I use has anti-wear additives that are similar.
 
bullwinkle said:
I don't because use of any oil additives voids any engine warranty from Rotax. But my understanding is the Aeroshell Sport Plus 4 semi-synthetic oil I use has anti-wear additives that are similar.
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Yeah, I don't know if I'd use it in a Rotax either. Camguard is designed with traditional air cooled airplane engines in mind. Unless Rotaxes have a history of internal corrosion causing failure, I would not bother with Camguard and do whatever the Rotax community recommends.
 
frfly172 said:
Use aero shell 15w/50 supposed to have cam guard in it.
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No sir, no such thing, and to make it worse, the synthetic base stock does not play well with 100LL. What it has is the Lycoming additive.
 
Aero Shell 100w+ in summer, 80W+ in winter. I like that the single weight is sticky, and no one has yet explained to me in plain language why camguard is worth $25 more per oil change han the W+ additive. Single weight got my Cherk to TBO.

I'm dancin' with the one what brung me....
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Aero Shell 100w+ in summer, 80W+ in winter. I like that the single weight is sticky, and no one has yet explained to me in plain language why camguard is worth $25 more per oil change han the W+ additive. Single weight got my Cherk to TBO.

I'm dancin' with the one what brung me....
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While I can't fault your logic, I'm curious as to whether anyone has explained to you in plain language what the W+ additive does or, more specifically, how effective it is?

I think the main use case for CamGuard is for engines that sit idle for long periods of time, which I suspect describes most of the non-commercial light piston fleet. Ed Kollin appears to have ample data on the performance of CamGuard, and unlike others peddling oil additives, has publicly demonstrated a credible engineering knowledge of petroleum and the performance of oil and oil additives.

Ed has also repeatedly lectured that CamGuard is NOT a miracle fix in a can. If your engine is having issues, CamGuard isn't going to fix it; it is a preventive additive. For me, the switch from AeroShell 15W50 to Phillips 20W50 and CamGuard may have slowed or stopped some seeping oil, but I'm not sure whether that was due to the Phillips, the CamGuard, or both. In any case, I'm happy to pay less for the Phillips and add the CamGuard as a likely superior alternative to AeroShell 15W50 (which also contains the Lycoming "+" additive), but I also don't have an engine that requires the "+" additive.


JKG
 
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So , fo a Lycoming 0-320 how much camguard do you add?
 
cathead said:
So , fo a Lycoming 0-320 how much camguard do you add?
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I use a little over 11 oz with 7 qts Phillips 20W50 whenever I change my oil in my O-320. I'll add perhaps two qts during the 50 hour oil change period, and put in a little under 2 oz camguard with each qt of oil added during the course.
 
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cathead said:
So , fo a Lycoming 0-320 how much camguard do you add?
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Instructions are on the bottle...basically 5%. For my O470 with a 12qt capacity, I add the entire 16oz bottle of camguard and 10qts of Phillips XC 20w50 at the oil change.
 
JGoodish said:
While I can't fault your logic, I'm curious as to whether anyone has explained to you in plain language what the W+ additive does or, more specifically, how effective it is?


JKG
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Nope.

Other than it being an anti-scuffing agent and is recommended by Lycoming, I'm pretty much in the dark. But the key for me is LW 16702 is recommended by Lycoming, and even required in certain engines. Must do somethin' good.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Nope.

Other than it being an anti-scuffing agent and is recommended by Lycoming, I'm pretty much in the dark. But the key for me is LW 16702 is recommended by Lycoming, and even required in certain engines. Must do somethin' good.
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Not to all engines, Lycoming has a note at the bottom of their SB that says it is not advised for any aircraft that has a slip clutch.
IOWs they don't want it in all their engine, only the ones that have poor valve and cam designs.
 
Brad Z said:
Instructions are on the bottle...basically 5%. For my O470 with a 12qt capacity, I add the entire 16oz bottle of camguard and 10qts of Phillips XC 20w50 at the oil change.
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We find if we stop at 9 plus camguard we end up with nothing to speak of on the belly. 10 we end up cleaning half a quart off the belly the next summer. We burn less than a quart between changes and I think we just get nervous on long XCs and end up usually putting a quart in somewhere along the way. We used to hold back the tiny bit of extra Camguard but we decided not to bother. It's in there and we will add that quart somewhere after half a quart or so is burnt/leaked/gone.

And... I know it's unpopular around here, but we're using the dreaded Aeroshell 15W50. It's all this engine has ever had in it, and we find it starts well on the lighter base stock oil in winter temps here. Our pre-heater setup leaves a bit to be desired. None of our mechanics have said anything bad about it, but we've all seen the Internet threads on it. We're in a "if it ain't broke" mode on that one.

Whether we will have some dreaded starter adapter problem someday remains to be seen I suppose. The engine is at roughly 1000 hours SMOH.

Blackstone seems to like what they see and I've never found diddly other than a very rare occasional speck of carbon that I can crush between two fingers in the oil filter. Actually only saw that once. Blackstone likes it even better when we fly a bunch. ;)

We had a tiny bit of a weird trace metal once (I forget what it was. Something not normally seen in engine oil) that they suggested was likely our dipstick being scraped off and the silicon increase when there was a hole in the air filter that we didn't notice a few years ago.

Otherwise so far (knock wood) no hints of anything. We know the usual O-470 failure mode is the bottom end starts making metal somewhere and you either get about one oil change worth of warning in the analysis or you find all sorts of evil shiny bits in the filter one day. We're certainly hoping that day is far in the future but hey, it is what it is.

The other common but fixable failure is cylinders. We have the dreaded chrome cylinders which we've read matches our flying pattern. Airplane sits for a number of days then flown quite a bit then sits again. The first owner beat the crap out of the poor engine and had two jugs replaced early on. The inbetween guy took care of it. We fly it 75F ROP since it won't run well any other way. We've tried. It's an O-470.

I'm sure our engine is probably faring better than the pretty 182 of the same vintage, that sits under an outdoor parking space cover/roof thing and never goes anywhere. Poor thing. Airplane abuse. :(

I talked to the owner once, he rarely flies it. A collector type, not interested in partners and can't bring himself to part with it. He's slowly destroying it in a way. It at least will probably be a candidate for an engine swap without much need for anything else when he finally dumps it or keels over dead. Nicer paint and interior than ours. But ours flies.

No engine monitor so can't comment on anything weird seen there. No data.

We just keep flying our giant Harley sounding beast. Starts on first blade unless we do something dumb like over-prime or forget to pull the mixture out a touch for start at our altitude. It'll cough and blubber if you try to start it full rich up here, but it'll start.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Nope.

Other than it being an anti-scuffing agent and is recommended by Lycoming, I'm pretty much in the dark. But the key for me is LW 16702 is recommended by Lycoming, and even required in certain engines. Must do somethin' good.
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Not quite.

In the beginning, Lycoming made an engine. And when they looked around and saw that it was good, they said "I have an engine. I will sell it to the people of the world." That was the first day.

On the second day, a company came along that started with a C and ended with an essna and said "Lycoming, your engine is too expensive. Make us a cheaper one so we can charge our customers less." And so Lycoming made the -76 series engines, and they had cam and valvetrain issues.

On the third day, the lawyers started calling up, and the engineers had to find a solution. That solution was LW-16702, an anti-scuffing snake oil that would allow the -76 engines to have longer, happier lives. It was then required to become an additive.

On the fourth day, Lycoming was asked by the people "Can we put this additive in our other Lycoming engines?" And so Lycoming said "Sure, why not?"

It's a bit more complex than that, but basically it came about because it was needed, and is allowed in other engines because it doesn't hurt it. I haven't seen any evidence that actually says it helps those engines, either, but it doesn't hurt them. So if you are happy with the oil, then by all means, keep buying it. O-320s are pretty well bulletproof anyway.

Tom-D said:
Not to all engines, Lycoming has a note at the bottom of their SB that says it is not advised for any aircraft that has a slip clutch.
IOWs they don't want it in all their engine, only the ones that have poor valve and cam designs.
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I'm not aware of any Lycomings that have clutch type starters. Maybe the 541s or some very old engines, but the majority of Lycomings have the external "automotive-type" starters.
 
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Tom-D said:
Not to all engines, Lycoming has a note at the bottom of their SB that says it is not advised for any aircraft that has a slip clutch.
IOWs they don't want it in all their engine, only the ones that have poor valve and cam designs.
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Tom-D said:
Models effective -- think gear boxes, accessories etc.

http://www.lycoming.com/Portals/0/t...Lycoming Engine PN LW-16702, Oil Additive.pdf

I just noticed, version "C" my earlier copy has that as a note at the bottom of the page
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You said they only want it in ones with poor cam and valvetrain designs. The standard Lycoming 320/360/540/580/235s don't need it. It's only a very small number that need the snake oil.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
You said they only want it in ones with poor cam and valvetrain designs. The standard Lycoming 320/360/540/580/235s don't need it. It's only a very small number that need the snake oil.
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Can you say "H2AD"
 
denverpilot said:
We find if we stop at 9 plus camguard we end up with nothing to speak of on the belly. 10 we end up cleaning half a quart off the belly the next summer. We burn less than a quart between changes and I think we just get nervous on long XCs and end up usually putting a quart in somewhere along the way. We used to hold back the tiny bit of extra Camguard but we decided not to bother. It's in there and we will add that quart somewhere after half a quart or so is burnt/leaked/gone.
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With an externally mounted spin-on filter, 10qts through the filler cap equals 9qts on the dipstick. I don't dare go a quart more or I experience the same blow out on the belly. I add another two quarts over the next 50 hours but I don't add any additional camguard either.
 
Brad Z said:
With an externally mounted spin-on filter, 10qts through the filler cap equals 9qts on the dipstick. I don't dare go a quart more or I experience the same blow out on the belly. I add another two quarts over the next 50 hours but I don't add any additional camguard either.
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Sounds like we have similar experiences. Maybe our dipstick shows a little different.

I really don't mind scrubbing the belly and becoming one with the airplane from six inches away once in a while, but whoever designed the thing to say it holds 12 and just blows it out all over the aircraft does need a swift kick in the jelly beans for the mess it makes if you actually fill the thing to the full line.

Of course the guy who designed my manual transmission in the Dodge to be half a pint low and not able to lubrucate the rear bearings properly when it's as full as you can get into the fill hole, requiring you to take the shifter off and pour another 1/2 pint in from the top, also deserves said roundhouse to the jelly bean area.

LOL. Machines. Aren't they fun? ;)
 
I'm an Aeroshell and Camguard user with my O300. We were at SnF in '09 and met the guy at his booth. My buddy is an engineer type and we were sufficiently impressed with his knowledge and zeal for his product to buy a bottle from him.

Actually, I think he gave us each one come to think of it...anyway, as weekend warriors we both use it. I really should get an oil analysis done, been a long time.
 
I get excellent oil analysis reports, with metal contaminants well below the fleet averages for my engine at every oil change. After 40 hours, typically:
21 ppm Iron vs. 49 ppm for Blackstone's "Universal Average" for the engine
1 ppm aluminum vs. 7 ppm,
1 ppm chromium vs. 8 ppm.

I use Camguard with the Phillips X/C.
 
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