Calcium Score

[Unregistered]

I'm in my early 40s and just had a cardiac calcium score CT done (at the request of my mother who is paranoid due to family history) I was surprised to see a value in the lower 100s. I'm fit, not overweight, don't smoke, haven't had red meat in 20+ years, run, bike, and climb regularly. So, I was expecting a big ZERO on the test. Both cholestorol and BP run a little on the high side of normal and have for years. I'm meeting with a cardiologist and making dietary and exercise changes but my question to any informed member here is; is a positive calcium score reason for the FAA doctor to question approvial of a medical certificate? My stress/echo test a couple years ago exceeded 100% of predicted performance and I will have another shortly to compare. I just ran a couple of 8.5 minute miles and feel great. I don't think I'm going to keel over on the control yoke any time soon but I want to know if I should be sharing this at my next medical in Dec.

Thanks,

 

[bbchien]

(1) No. I really question folks who spend $$s on tests that aren't going to change anything- you already take good care of youself, exercise, though you maybe could do better on the dietary stuff.....as in "enjoy your dry toast and lipitor, Roo dear..."

Sigh.

 

[Unregistered]

If you have any calcium the FAA requires a current treadmill for a third class or a thallium treadmill for second class or first . You are disqualified medically until one of these is done and normal. This is true even if you have no symptoms. I am an FAA medical examiner and I just had one done with a score of only 40. I get my cath in 2 weeks so I can fly. Unfortunately you are at risk of sudden death until proved otherwise.

 

[Gary F]

If you have any calcium the FAA requires a current treadmill for a third class or a thallium treadmill for second class or first . You are disqualified medically until one of these is done and normal. This is true even if you have no symptoms. I am an FAA medical examiner and I just had one done with a score of only 40. I get my cath in 2 weeks so I can fly. Unfortunately you are at risk of sudden death until proved otherwise.

Calcium score of only 40 and presumably no symptoms leads to a heart cath? I assume there was a stress test which is probably a false positive. What if they find something? Stents are generally used to control symptoms that can't be managed with medication. The perils of screening tests. Bummer. Please update us on the results.

 

[dtuuri]

If you have any calcium the FAA requires a current treadmill for a third class or a thallium treadmill for second class or first . You are disqualified medically until one of these is done and normal. ... Unfortunately you are at risk of sudden death until proved otherwise.

The only "proof" I've been able to unearth is if you stop eating the foods that gave you the disease in the first place. Most sudden deaths result from the rupture of non-severe plaques. Those are the ones the FAA certifies daily because they don't have knowledge of them in the applicant, but autopsies of normal people show them to be ubiquitous among those who eat a Western diet.

Of course, I'm not a doc, so don't listen to me. I merely have a stent, not a degree. If I were you, I'd put off the cath for another week and read the May issue of The Journal of Family Practice first. There should be an article in there you will want to read before undergoing a cath and possibly waking up with an unneeded stent to take care of the rest of your life.

dtuuri

 

[Unregistered]

Original poster here...

Original calcium score was no issue for me getting and keeping a medical (second class most years, now 3rd). Recently repeated the calcium score CT and unfortunately my number has gone up despite all the exercise, diet, and medications over the years. But, recent stress test at a major university cardiology department was excellent. "I have patients here who would kill for your numbers". the doc said. Nowadays they can also scan for soft plaque, a CT angiogram it's called I think. But, doc said it really wouldn't change how I live or take care of myself because the stress test shows no narrowing. Am I at risk for sudden death? Perhaps but not necessarily any more so than anyone else. So, onward and upward. My AME says I'm good to go.

 

[comanchepilot]

Genes are everything - know a guy with blood work to die for - at 59 now is the oldest male on his fathers side by 15 years . . . has had two bypass surgeries, three angioplasties, stents, etc etc etc. You either are prone to blockage or have 'bad' plaque in your arteries or you don't - and drugs can help only some of it, diet some, exercise some - hopefully those sums add up so that you live long enough to die from cancer.

 

[radioguy01]

It's amazing there would be any regulation regarding calcium scores give my hat they basically have no clinical utility and there's no real indication for them nor do they really guide care.

 

[dtuuri]

Genes are everything...

I beg to differ. Genes may load the gun, but you pull the trigger by what you eat. You, yourself, prove the point by what you've written about how you control your blood sugar through your diet. Same way with coronary artery disease. You aren't born with it. You can't catch it. You can't run away from it or Jim Fixx would still be alive. Vegetarians aren't immune from it if they don't get their vitamin B-12 and if they over-indulge in omega-6 fatty acids, like what's in microwave popcorn. Just because you don't have symptoms doesn't mean your arteries are clean. Even if a cath shows you to be stenoses-free you could still have plaque within the artery walls that has simply remodeled outward instead of inward. Does that mean you're good to go? I think not. The debateable thing is what, exactly, is causing it in the food we eat. Some say fat, some say sugar. Others have all kinds of theories to justify their food choices. Nobody seems able to prove their contention with strong enough data to impress the rest yet.

dtuuri

 

[dtuuri]

If you have any calcium the FAA requires a current treadmill for a third class or a thallium treadmill for second class or first . You are disqualified medically until one of these is done and normal. This is true even if you have no symptoms. I am an FAA medical examiner and I just had one done with a score of only 40. I get my cath in 2 weeks so I can fly. Unfortunately you are at risk of sudden death until proved otherwise.

If I were you, I'd put off the cath for another week and read the May issue of The Journal of Family Practice first. There should be an article in there you will want to read before undergoing a cath and possibly waking up with an unneeded stent to take care of the rest of your life.

When the article didn't appear today, I contacted my source and discovered the article has been postponed until July.

dtuuri

 

[dtuuri]

If you have any calcium the FAA requires a current treadmill for a third class or a thallium treadmill for second class or first . You are disqualified medically until one of these is done and normal. This is true even if you have no symptoms. I am an FAA medical examiner and I just had one done with a score of only 40. I get my cath in 2 weeks so I can fly. Unfortunately you are at risk of sudden death until proved otherwise.

Well, I hope you're still with us, so to speak. The article I expected above is now out: http://dresselstyn.com/JFP_06307_Article1_watermark.pdf

EDIT: and here http://www.jfponline.com/articles/e...rse-cad/f74f8ebb9261a837f3511f407516c7e5.html

Once you have chest pain, if you're lucky to survive, it's no problem to give up meat. Of 198 patients, 89% were compliant without dairy, meat, fish, fowl or added oils. Not an easy thing for the fat, dumb and happy.

dtuuri

 

[Alexb2000]

Well, I hope you're still with us, so to speak. The article I expected above is now out: http://dresselstyn.com/JFP_06307_Article1_watermark.pdf

Once you have chest pain, if you're lucky to survive, it's no problem to give up meat. Of 198 patients, 89% were compliant without dairy, meat, fish, fowl or added oils. Not an easy thing for the fat, dumb and happy.

dtuuri

Then what? Serious question. You live on vegetables and legumes not cooked in oil or seasoned with salt. No caffeine, no fruit, no meat, no…..

Sure you'll lose weight, you'll look like you just got out of a concentration camp.

Sure your health will improve.

BUT, what a miserable person you'll become. Always obsessing about a diet that is culturally and logistically very difficult to impossible. No more dinners with friends. No more meals at any restaurant. No business meals. No more hanging out with the guys (unless you like being made fun of for drinking tap water and eating raw peas).

Basically you'll be spending a lot of time alone just like all other extremist. You won't want the temptation and everyone else won't want a culinary downer along to remind them.

In my case my sicilian grandmother would spin in her grave.

 

[dell30rb]

Well, I hope you're still with us, so to speak. The article I expected above is now out: http://dresselstyn.com/JFP_06307_Article1_watermark.pdf

Once you have chest pain, if you're lucky to survive, it's no problem to give up meat. Of 198 patients, 89% were compliant without dairy, meat, fish, fowl or added oils. Not an easy thing for the fat, dumb and happy.

dtuuri

There is hope. Beer has none of those ingredients.

 

[steingar]

Then what? Serious question. You live on vegetables and legumes not cooked in oil or seasoned with salt. No caffeine, no fruit, no meat, no…..

Sure you'll lose weight, you'll look like you just got out of a concentration camp.

You've pretty much described my diet. Ask anyone who's met me, I most definitely don't look like I just got out of a concentration camp. I'm mostly happy (except when things go wrong) and have a pretty good social life and friends who make fun of my diet (though they are somewhat less likely to be mistaken for a concentration camp victim).

Oh, and I eat really, really well because I know how to cook. Must suck for those with less ability...

 

[Alexb2000]

You've pretty much described my diet. Ask anyone who's met me, I most definitely don't look like I just got out of a concentration camp. I'm mostly happy (except when things go wrong) and have a pretty good social life and friends who make fun of my diet (though they are somewhat less likely to be mistaken for a concentration camp victim).

Oh, and I eat really, really well because I know how to cook. Must suck for those with less ability...

How about the recipe for one of your favorite dishes that conforms to this diet then?

 

[dtuuri]

Basically you'll be spending a lot of time alone ...

I've got it! You suffer from monophobia! And lachanophobia!

That would explain your need to hang out with crowds of dope smokers who inhale their plants not eat them.

dtuuri

 

[dtuuri]

How about the recipe for one of your favorite dishes that conforms to this diet then?

Yeah. I'd like the one for chili Gary mentioned once. My lentils could use more imagination.

dtuuri

 

[steingar]

How about the recipe for one of your favorite dishes that conforms to this diet then?

Don't much use recipes, but here's the general outline of my favorite way to cook my favorite food:

Heat just a bit of oil in your biggest soup pot. Add in a couple onions diced, a few sticks of celery, similarly diced, and a few cloves of crushed garlic. Sweat over low heat 5 or 10 minutes, until the onions get soft. Turn up the heat a bit and add some sliced or diced vegetables, some mushrooms, zucchini or whatever else you fancy. Add in some diced potatoes that you've parboiled (I do mine in the microwave) and some diced tomatoes. Saute until everything is nicely done, and deglaze with some cheap tequila, about a half cup, or to taste.

In another pot steam a big bunch of washed and chopped greens, kale, bok choy, spinach or whatever you want. Wilt them well, then add them and their water to the big pot of beans. Oh yeah, beans. Go back in time and the night before put up a pound of black beans (you can use any kind you like actually) in enough water to cover by about an inch. Next morning pour off the water and add half strength soup stock. Boil one hour or until done, and add to your vegetable mixture. Thicken with tomato paste, season with basil, cumin, oregano, and enough chili spice to make it as spicy as you care for. I always add some hot peppers to the sauté, but no one likes things as spicy as I do.

You can continue to season with vinegar (I like malt vinegar best) lemon juice, soy sauce (used in moderation, stuff is strong and salty). You can add in the bean cook water for broth, it should be yummy. You want enough broth to cover the brown rice you're going to serve this with. I sweeten with fruit juice (apple joyce comes in little plastic bottles and is perfect) or molasses, I bake with sugar but use it for nothing else. If my stew needs salt I use a substance called miso, available at most Oriental markets it is fermented bean curd that's strong and salty and gives great flavor. Don't use much though.

If you want a chewier texture take one cup TVP (textured vegetable protein, also available everywhere) and boil in one cup soup broth. Add into your beans, which should wind up in a nice thick spicy broth. You can skip the rice and make some biscuits to go with your bean, I make mine with whole wheat and ancient grains. Yummy.

 

[Alexb2000]

I've got it! You suffer from monophobia! And lachanophobia!

That would explain your need to hang out with crowds of dope smokers who inhale their plants not eat them.

dtuuri

What? Dope smokers? Is your blood sugar low?

Fear of being alone is not the same as recognizing a lifestyle choice that is highly anti-social. If being anti-social is your thing, then by all means.

Fear of vegetables? On the contrary, vegetables make up a large part of my diet. I'm more of a believer in balance and moderation.

The real issue IMO is that our society doesn't deal with death very well. Instead of facing the issue we strive for immortality at the expense of enjoying what life has to offer. I would rather be dead than have missed all the wonderful meals with family and friends over the years. Memories of coming in to a warm house during the holidays filled with the smells of a pending feast, etc. These extreme lifestyles rob us of these wonderful experiences and that's what really bothers me.

 

[Alexb2000]

Don't much use recipes, but here's the general outline of my favorite way to cook my favorite food:

Heat just a bit of oil in your biggest soup pot. Add in a couple onions diced, a few sticks of celery, similarly diced, and a few cloves of crushed garlic. Sweat over low heat 5 or 10 minutes, until the onions get soft. Turn up the heat a bit and add some sliced or diced vegetables, some mushrooms, zucchini or whatever else you fancy. Add in some diced potatoes that you've parboiled (I do mine in the microwave) and some diced tomatoes. Saute until everything is nicely done, and deglaze with some cheap tequila, about a half cup, or to taste.

In another pot steam a big bunch of washed and chopped greens, kale, bok choy, spinach or whatever you want. Wilt them well, then add them and their water to the big pot of beans. Oh yeah, beans. Go back in time and the night before put up a pound of black beans (you can use any kind you like actually) in enough water to cover by about an inch. Next morning pour off the water and add half strength soup stock. Boil one hour or until done, and add to your vegetable mixture. Thicken with tomato paste, season with basil, cumin, oregano, and enough chili spice to make it as spicy as you care for. I always add some hot peppers to the sauté, but no one likes things as spicy as I do.

You can continue to season with vinegar (I like malt vinegar best) lemon juice, soy sauce (used in moderation, stuff is strong and salty). You can add in the bean cook water for broth, it should be yummy. You want enough broth to cover the brown rice you're going to serve this with. I sweeten with fruit juice (apple joyce comes in little plastic bottles and is perfect) or molasses, I bake with sugar but use it for nothing else. If my stew needs salt I use a substance called miso, available at most Oriental markets it is fermented bean curd that's strong and salty and gives great flavor. Don't use much though.

If you want a chewier texture take one cup TVP (textured vegetable protein, also available everywhere) and boil in one cup soup broth. Add into your beans, which should wind up in a nice thick spicy broth. You can skip the rice and make some biscuits to go with your bean, I make mine with whole wheat and ancient grains. Yummy.

That doesn't sound bad at all, but you didn't read the paper did you? No oil, no salt, no fruit juice, no sugar, no molasses (I love that stuff), no fruit either, no grains.

That said I might have to try that one.

 

[dtuuri]

Don't much use recipes, but here's the general outline of my favorite way to cook my favorite food:

<snip> Yummy.

Mmmm. Made my mouth water. Thank you for that.

I'm more of a fast fooder. I simply add store-bought TVP-based ground round to Prego light for a meat sauce to pour over 100% whole grain pasta. Going to try it over spahgetti broccoli instead of pasta for lunch today.

Brown rice is the parboiled, 10-minute kind and I top with rice vinegar and butter beans heated from a can.

Salads take the most time. All that slicing and dicing! I eat kale raw, mostly, after I've tortured it into submission in my bare hands for a minute or so and splashed it with orange juice. Mix in some butter lettuce or spring mix and top with raw veggies and ground flax seed meal and nutritional yeast (mostly because I like the taste). I use a lot of balsamic vinegar.

For snacks, soda crackers spread with refried beans straight from a can with salsa spooned on top is quick and satisfying. Add some red wine or beer...

Restaurant menus usually include steamed vegetables, salads, potatoes. I can manage to find something to order. I'm not there for the food, but the company.

dtuuri

 

[wsuffa]

That doesn't sound bad at all, but you didn't read the paper did you? No oil, no salt, no fruit juice, no sugar, no molasses (I love that stuff), no fruit either, no grains.

That said I might have to try that one.

Exactly. That's what makes compliance so hard. It's not just meat that they eliminated, it's any kind of oil, dairy products, avocado, nuts, excess salt, fruit juices, molasses, processed foods, etc. AND caffeine and anything containing fructose. Whole grains were permitted.

On the other hand if it works, perhaps the individual mandate can be extended to save the country a LOT of money on health care.

 

[Alexb2000]

Exactly. That's what makes compliance so hard. It's not just meat that they eliminated, it's any kind of oil, dairy products, avocado, nuts, excess salt, fruit juices, molasses, processed foods, etc. AND caffeine and anything containing fructose. Whole grains were permitted.

On the other hand if it works, perhaps the individual mandate can be extended to save the country a LOT of money on health care.

You're right I missed that whole grains were allowed.

Maybe someone can explain to this simple minded fool how a carbohydrate from whole grain flour is superior metabolically than a carbohydrate from say honey.

 

[steingar]

That doesn't sound bad at all, but you didn't read the paper did you? No oil, no salt, no fruit juice, no sugar, no molasses (I love that stuff), no fruit either, no grains.

That said I might have to try that one.

The amount of oil I use winds up being far less than a teaspoon per serving. You won't find too many foods with lower fat than that. Sweeteners get the same thing, a might use half a bottle of apple juice for a whole pot of beans that goes for a dozen servings. You just don't wind up with enough to cause health problems even in the most distressed individual. You can leave out the taters, but Mrs. Steingar has bigger problems with grains than anyone and she can still eat this with no problems.

The one place I have to plead a bit guilty is salt. It is really, really difficult to make food taste like anything without some salt. That said, the amount I use falls well below the amount per serving recommended by the AHA.

Put another way, try and find anything with more nutrition and less bad for you stuff than my beans. I'll wait.

 

[dtuuri]

That doesn't sound bad at all, but you didn't read the paper did you? No oil, no salt, no fruit juice, no sugar, no molasses (I love that stuff), no fruit either, no grains.

That said I might have to try that one.

My take on that is Dr. Esselstyn can't "allow" moderation. If he does, everybody defines it differently and before you know, they'll be back to eating the same old stuff. So, there's no exceptions other than he admits to personally, once a year, eating a dozen or so Reece Cups on New Year's Eve.

I don't saute in oil--I just use a hot no-stick pan. No added oil is easy for things I cook myself. Buying pre-made food like bread is another matter. They put soybean oil in most of it (all of it?) you can buy in a store. The Ezekial bread adds way too much fiber to my already rich fiber diet, so I can't eat that. So, I buy bread that is mostly whole grain and low in percentage of fat. Anymore, I'm also restricting carbs, so I don't buy bread often at all. I use corn tortillas and use them sparingly.

I use orange juice to flavor water. Why? Because my family has a history of diabetes and I don't want to go there. The pancreas only seems to have so much ammunition to shoot down blood sugar and when it's spent, it's spent. Trying to save my ammo.

It's not as stark as I first feared nor as you think. It makes me feel absolutely healthy too. More energy, need less sleep. Trimmer physique. I can't wait to look in a mirror, I get better looking each day!

dtuuri

 

[steingar]

You're right I missed that whole grains were allowed.

Maybe someone can explain to this simple minded fool how a carbohydrate from whole grain flour is superior metabolically than a carbohydrate from say honey.

First, carbohydrates from grains are long chain starch molecules while the ones from sugar and honey are simple sugars. The latter are more easily metabolized and contain vastly more energy (i.e. calories).

Grains like white flour are therefore healthier than sweeteners. That said, whole grains are better still. White flour only uses the starch containing part of the wheat grain while whole wheat uses the entire grain, which includes parts that have protein and fiber. Many of the grains I use have even more protein and fiber than that. Fiber is indigestible, so no calories at all. Protein is a much poorer source of energy than starch (but good for building material).

The down side is that the protein in white four, gluten, can make lattices that fill with carbon dioxide exhaled by yeast to make light fluffy bread. All the fiber and protein from whole wheat breaks that lattice, thus whole wheat breads don't rise as well. And most other grains have no gluten at all and make horrible bread.

 

[steingar]

Yeah. I'd like the one for chili Gary mentioned once. My lentils could use more imagination.

dtuuri

Haven't cooked lentils in years, sorry. Mrs. Steingar seems to have a reaction to them.

 

[dtuuri]

Maybe someone can explain to this simple minded fool how a carbohydrate from whole grain flour is superior metabolically than a carbohydrate from say honey.

AFAIK, when blood sugar rises over 140, insulin-producing beta cells die. Refined carbs immediately exceed that value, but whole grains digest slower and less completely.

EDIT: I'm unsure, though, whether the spike is more gradual or just delayed.

dtuuri

 

[Alexb2000]

AFAIK, when blood sugar rises over 140, insulin-producing beta cells die. Refined carbs immediately exceed that value, but whole grains digest slower and less completely.

EDIT: I'm unsure, though, whether the spike is more gradual or just delayed.

dtuuri

OK using that logic and the diet the paper you posted suggests it doesn't make sense.

A grapefruit not allowed on the diet has a glycemic index of 25

Baked potato, allowed on the diet, 111.

Whole wheat bread, also allowed, 71.

Huummmm

 

[dtuuri]

OK using that logic and the diet the paper you posted suggests it doesn't make sense.

A grapefruit not allowed on the diet has a glycemic index of 25

Baked potato, allowed on the diet, 111.

Whole wheat bread, also allowed, 71.

Huummmm

Where'd you get the idea grapefruit isn't allowed? Maybe with certain cardiac medications? Fruits are a big part of the diet, just take care not to over indulge. In his book he recommends three pieces per day. Drinking the juice, other than as a water flavoring, is discouraged. So are limiting dried fruits, like dried cranberries which send blood sugar soaring.

dtuuri

 

[Alexb2000]

Where'd you get the idea grapefruit isn't allowed? Maybe with certain cardiac medications? Fruits are a big part of the diet, just take care not to over indulge. In his book he recommends three pieces per day. Drinking the juice, other than as a water flavoring, is discouraged. So are limiting dried fruits, like dried cranberries which send blood sugar soaring.

dtuuri

The paper you posted doesn't allow any fruit or specifically fructose (also found in vegetables BTW), what are we talking about here?

 

[dtuuri]

The paper you posted doesn't allow any fruit or specifically fructose (also found in vegetables BTW), what are we talking about here?

From the article:

"The core diet. Whole grains, legumes,
lentils, other vegetables, and fruit comprised
the major portion of the diet."​

dtuuri

 

[Unregistered]

Life is too short to not eat what you want. I am pushing 60 and never eat vegetables. 5'10 170 lbs with no high blood pressure, cholesterol or nothing. Eating nothing but vegetables simply is not living for me. If I ever were to have health problems I would recommend paying cash to get looked at. Don't get these type of tests without first A)using cash and B) using an alias.

 

[Alexb2000]

From the article:

"The core diet. Whole grains, legumes,
lentils, other vegetables, and fruit comprised
the major portion of the diet."​

dtuuri

I'm talking about page 358, left column, under Foods Prohibited. "Subsequently, we also excluded caffeine and fructose".

 

[dtuuri]

Life is too short to not eat what you want.

Eat what you want and life is too short--if you want to eat stuff that's bad for you. I want to eat the stuff that's good for me, so I can live long enough to finish what I want, which seems to become a longer list as time goes by. If you want to eat up and check out, though, that's your biz. I hope for your loved ones' sake you make a clean break.

dtuuri

 

[dtuuri]

I'm talking about page 358, left column, under Foods Prohibited. "Subsequently, we also excluded caffeine and fructose".

I'm sure that means added to soda pop, etc., not within fruit.

dtuuri

 

[steingar]

Life is too short to not eat what you want. I am pushing 60 and never eat vegetables. 5'10 170 lbs with no high blood pressure, cholesterol or nothing. Eating nothing but vegetables simply is not living for me. If I ever were to have health problems I would recommend paying cash to get looked at. Don't get these type of tests without first A)using cash and B) using an alias.

First, I hate you. If I could eat whatever I wanted and not turn into a small planet I might feel the same. Most people can't do this, and turning yourself into a euclidian solid is neither healthy nor conducive to a long disease free existence.

Second, you don't eat vegetables because you don't know how to prepare them. If you did, you'd eat them all the time. No one has ever come away hungry from my table, and I've yet to hear complaints either first or second hand.

Third, if I have health problems I'll get them dealt with. I love flying, but I love living even more. I lived before I started flying and I'll live after.

 

[dtuuri]

Second, you don't eat vegetables because you don't know how to prepare them.

Speaking of that, have you discovered a way to "deactivate" beans? Not for me, of course, but for others who might have that problem.

dtuuri

 

[steingar]

Speaking of that, have you discovered a way to "deactivate" beans? Not for me, of course, but for others who might have that problem.

dtuuri

Beano is about the only thing that comes to mind. I just got kinda used to it.

 

[dtuuri]

Beano is about the only thing that comes to mind. I just got kinda used to it.

Same here. Bought Beano, but only used it a few times. Once in awhile though, cheap beer and cheap beans can raise havoc. I keep some Gas-X on hand just in case.

dtuuri