c172 vs Sr-20

They are both really nice. Nd is a little more rural than I'd like but I'd live.

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cyclepro said:
Can i ask how you managed no debt? and i was going to get a degree in something else as well as aviation. I would be double majoring. not entirely sure in what yet but still getting two degrees. It's a toss up between Aviation maintenance, atc, computer science, or law enforcement.
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I'm in New York and I go to a state school. Tuition is cheap and my parents are helping out with flying. What do you want to do eventually? Fly for the airlines?
 
I bought my 2006 SR 20 from western michigan. Paid 160K, sold it in the crappy market at 157k
 
I'm in Chicago so I have out of state tuition. I'm not sure. I think air lines. Or someone's ***** and fly their jet for them.

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jmp470 said:
I bought my 2006 SR 20 from western michigan. Paid 160K, sold it in the crappy market at 157k
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Just curious, how many hours did you put on it and how much do you think it cost you all in?
 
cyclepro said:
I'm in Chicago so I have out of state tuition. I'm not sure. I think air lines. Or someone's ***** and fly their jet for them.

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If money is an issue go to an in state school or even the local community college. It will save you a lot of money and just fly on the side like I'm going
 
Money isn't a big issue. I'm just trying to make a decision on which college to go to. I'm not too fond of leaving a big city and going 14 hours away to a rural town but ill get over it

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cyclepro said:
Money isn't a big issue. I'm just trying to make a decision on which college to go to. I'm not too fond of leaving a big city and going 14 hours away to a rural town but ill get over it

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You might not get over it. Lots of kids come running home from college going from city to sticks doesn't help the odds.
Seriously you have a case of flight college advertising blight. Go to any college and train anywhere, as long as it isn't in a college flight program.
 
Why no college flight program?

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UND uses Skyhawks for the majority of the SE hours and they have a respected program.
Having more power and a CS prop does not give you more flying skills.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Differential Equqtions and Thermal Dynamics
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Um ... that would be differential equations and thermodynamics. I hated diff, aced thermo. Came out with a BS-Physics 47 years ago, practiced as a microwave engineer ever since and never used diff and about 1% of the thermo.

NEVER turn down the opportunity for inexpensive education, but do NOT get your ratings at an "aviation" school.

Jim
 
what's wrong with aviation colleges? are they bad at teaching or do they just **** you over financially?
 
The aviation programs do not return on investment compared to a state university and flying on your own.
 
cyclepro said:
Why no college flight program?

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Overpriced and worse overstructured. Plus most of those schools are miserable sausage factories. Now we all want to be mature and pretend that doesn't matter, but it does. I wonder if there is a college administrator handbook with a chapter on gimmicking up failing colleges by adding a flight program?
Overstructured is a big problem. If I was hiring and had the choice between a pilot mill kid and a David White type(he flew around the country getting ratings and visiting people at a young age) I'd take the latter every time. One has free ranged outside the fenced in yard one has not.
 
0luke1 said:
The aviation programs do not return on investment compared to a state university and flying on your own.
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Western michigan is a state university.

And what about the fact that if he goes through an university program he can get his atp @ 1000 hours instead of 1500 with the new regs
 
weirdjim said:
Um ... that would be differential equations and thermodynamics. I hated diff, aced thermo. Came out with a BS-Physics 47 years ago, practiced as a microwave engineer ever since and never used diff and about 1% of the thermo.


Jim
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And you now know why I did not obtain an engineering degree..... :dunno:

Those two classes are the gatekeeping classes for Engineering.

Just like Calculus is for Business degrees.

And Organic Chem for Biology degrees....

Not every one can get past some of the gates, no matter how much money they spend and time trying to get a degree.






Pkppunk said:
Western michigan is a state university.

And what about the fact that if he goes through an university program he can get his atp @ 1000 hours instead of 1500 with the new regs
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The more shortcuts, the better pilot????

Hmmmmmm...... :no:
 
having the extra 500 hours doesn't mean that someone is a better pilot. It's the quality of the flight instruction and pilot not the time.
 
The airlines don't care about what your degree is in.

If you want to go to college, go for business or engineering or the like. Get a degree that holds good value in the job market.

Then fly and get your ratings on the side. You'll come out cheaper and with better credentials in the end.
 
Which is why I would go for atc or maintenance. There will always be air traffic and planes that need to be fixed

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JoseCuervo said:
And you now know why I did not obtain an engineering degree..... :dunno:

Those two classes are the gatekeeping classes for Engineering.

Just like Calculus is for Business degrees.

And Organic Chem for Biology degrees....

Not every one can get past some of the gates, no matter how much money they spend and time trying to get a degree.









The more shortcuts, the better pilot????

Hmmmmmm...... :no:
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And the pilots before the new regs getting their atp at 500 total. It's still double the time it used to be
 
Are 1,000 hour pilot academy kids getting hired for jobs requiring an ATP in significant numbers? What about in four years? Extra 500 hours is six months instructing at a busy airport, not a big deal.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Are 1,000 hour pilot academy kids getting hired for jobs requiring an ATP in significant numbers? What about in four years? Extra 500 hours is six months instructing at a busy airport, not a big deal.
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at my university most students here instruct here for a year by the time they have 800 or so hours and are getting their conditional offers for the regionals.

So in that extra six months your getting passed up by those who did go the university route whether their better pilots or not who knows I'm sure there are good and bad pilots that come out of either type of training
 
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cyclepro said:
having the extra 500 hours doesn't mean that someone is a better pilot. It's the quality of the flight instruction and pilot not the time.
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You'll learn more on your own than you ever did with an instructor. I would still recommend the 150 route.

You do not want to go to an aviation school - it does not make you a better pilot, and you do not get better instruction. I know several employers that will prefer CFIs that did Pt61 much more than even an Embry riddle grad with the same hours.
 
There are other types of flying with far better pay than the airlines, and the minimums are 500 hours.
 
I'm not saying it doesn't mean anything but just bc someone has a lot of hours doesn't mean they are a good pilot

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cyclepro said:
I'm not saying it doesn't mean anything but just bc someone has a lot of hours doesn't mean they are a good pilot

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Hours=experience
Experience=skill

I agree with you that it is *what* the hours consist of that makes you a well-rounded pilot. The problem is you can't put "hire me I'm a good pilot even though I don't have many hours" on a resume. You will get a lot more hours in a 150 and have many more interesting experiences along the way.
 
dans2992 said:
Do tell..?

Do you mean banner towing, CFIing and pipeline?
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Follow the wisdom of the late and great Johnny Horton and head north to Alaska.

When I was flying for the land surveying company I still made more than a 3 hear FO at the airlines did.
 
Listen to David he took the non scripted path and is living the dream.
 
DavidWhite said:
Hours=experience
Experience=skill

I agree with you that it is *what* the hours consist of that makes you a well-rounded pilot. The problem is you can't put "hire me I'm a good pilot even though I don't have many hours" on a resume. You will get a lot more hours in a 150 and have many more interesting experiences along the way.
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no you can't but there used to be a guy that kept his cirrus in the hanger with my flight school and he was a complete idiot of a pilot. He would fly his family into convective sigmets. and he was not ifr rated. just because you have a lot of hours or experience does not necessarily mean they are a good pilot. if you have 20,000 hours but your a dumbass who puts yourself and others into dangerous situations i dont consider that a good pilot.
 
That being said i'm not trying to fight you on it. generally speaking yes experience does mean more skill. but if you spend that extra 500 hours flying in circles i dont know how much skill you will acquire.
 
I am still trying to figure out whether he wants to be a pilot, atc or A&P.

I was an A&P/certified TIG welder. I doubt A&P's get paid much better than they did when I got out of it in 1997, unless you work for the airlines or own your own business. They are a dime a dozen due to the military, which is how I got mine. I went to HVAC school on the GI Bill and made the same starting as I did leaving my A&P job. Built our house/shop/garage. Self employed since 2000 and love it. There are ups and downs in business, no retirement or healthcare plan unless you start your own or have a spouse with one like myself. Business is really down right now, but if one can survive, it will only get better from here we hope. So, no 4 yr college degree, no college debt, debt free and ppc at age 38, RV-10 built in our garage at 41, life is pretty darn good. Would I have liked to have been an aero engineer or helicopter pilot as I had originally planned when I was 17...You bet. Make the best of it and do something you really love. A six figure income would have been nice, but as you can see, hard work, a good marriage, patience and avoid paying interest on anything pays off! Good luck!
 
One option is to start college elsewhere and transfer. Live where you like for two years, taking your general education and intro classes, and picking up a rating or certificate on the side. Enjoy it. Then transfer to the school with the name that you want, and if you don't like the location or cost, it's only two years.

I know someone who did that, finishing at a pilot mill college in two years. His degree looks exactly the same as someone's that took four years there. He saved money and lived where he liked it.
 
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I want to be a pilot. I am double majoring though so i have a fall back.
 
cyclepro said:
no you can't but there used to be a guy that kept his cirrus in the hanger with my flight school and he was a complete idiot of a pilot. He would fly his family into convective sigmets. and he was not ifr rated. just because you have a lot of hours or experience does not necessarily mean they are a good pilot. if you have 20,000 hours but your a dumbass who puts yourself and others into dangerous situations i dont consider that a good pilot.
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We're in agreement. Typically dumb pilots dont make it to 20,000 hours, but I do know one that is at 5,000. Somehow.

cyclepro said:
That being said i'm not trying to fight you on it. generally speaking yes experience does mean more skill. but if you spend that extra 500 hours flying in circles i dont know how much skill you will acquire.
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Not much.
 
i'm thinking i'll end up going to university of north dakota. Everyone says go with the 172 and they are cheaper. I'm not a huge fan of being 12 hours from home in a small town coming from chicago but hopefully i'll adjust. thanks for all the help guys.
 
If an aviation school is where you want to go why leave Chicago? Lewis University has an aviation program. You could also go to Rock Valley College (Rockford) for their A&P program while doing your flight training locally. Where in the Chicago area are you?

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+1 to all the recommendations to get a non-aviation degree. If you choose is wisely, it might even be advantageous in the aviation- and the non-aviation world.

What might also be an option is one of the countless online programs, which are getting increasingly popular: http://www.usnews.com/education/online-education/bachelors/rankings
Such a program would allow you to work on your ratings and to fly for a living, while you work in parallel on a Bachelor's or Master's degree.
 
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