C172 chirp on landing?

Ron Levy said:
Unless you have a device to spin up the tires to landing ground speed prior to touchdown, they are going to chirp when they touch. No big deal.
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If you do a real greaser on a wet runway, no chirp :)


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It is so common that its actually a part of the song here at 0:50
 
Chirp can vary within the tire itself depending on brand, model, tread amount...etc. It could be possible the tires on the 172 are just more chirpy than the Piper's.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Only way to make a three-pointer in a trike is to be way too fast. Angle of attack is directly related to speed. Tires will certainly screech in such a case. They're protesting poor technique.

Dan
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It can be done pretty easily in an old 35 (not sure about the 33/36, but likely). Yes, you have to be fast and drive it on ... SOP for a few guys I've met.

Not something I like to do .... but have done with some of the crazy gusty winds in Oklahoma and Kansas...
 
brian];1545633 said:
It can be done pretty easily in an old 35 (not sure about the 33/36, but likely). Yes, you have to be fast and drive it on ... SOP for a few guys I've met.

Not something I like to do .... but have done with some of the crazy gusty winds in Oklahoma and Kansas...
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'Drive it on' is the most common landing I see. I've had people express shock that I would stall the 310 onto the runway as they land at Redline/Vmc. I ask them why and they say they were taught to never let a twin get below Vmc.:mad2::rolleyes2: I just ask them, "If you're over the fence with the runway made and near idle power, what is the chance that you are going to need full power on a single engine again before you land?" That near 20 kt reduction in landing speed makes a big difference on wear and tear on the airframe and saves a lot of money on tires, tubes, and brakes.
 
Henning said:
'Drive it on' is the most common landing I see. I've had people express shock that I would stall the 310 onto the runway as they land at Redline/Vmc. I ask them why and they say they were taught to never let a twin get below Vmc.:mad2::rolleyes2: I just ask them, "If you're over the fence with the runway made and near idle power, what is the chance that you are going to need full power on a single engine again before you land?" That near 20 kt reduction in landing speed makes a big difference on wear and tear on the airframe and saves a lot of money on tires, tubes, and brakes.
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I've had 2 instructors get nervous when I get under 100MPH on approach in the -35. I have the V1.0 airplane and the gear/flaps are limited to 100MPH! Anyway, there is a poster here that echoes what I've heard from the balance of the instructor/owners/mechanics with Bonanzas: SLOW DOWN! (except when windy)

Back to the OP: if I stall mine, I'll get up to 3 chirps on pavement as the wheels "spin up". If I "drive it on", I get one chirp (or 3 really fast ones).

Nothing beats grass: no chirp! Even if you plant it (drive it on) it is smooth!
 
One way to avoid the chirp is a good set of skis in Minnesota between early December and March.
 
I've watched bob Hoover several times. Sometimes he chirped, other times he didn't. Wonder what he would think about this absurd subject.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
I've watched bob Hoover several times. Sometimes he chirped, other times he didn't. Wonder what he would think about this absurd subject.
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He would say the subject is one of energy management and that rather than be absurd, it is the most critical issue to the stick and rudder part of flying.
 
Henning said:
He would say the subject is one of energy management and that rather than be absurd, it is the most critical issue to the stick and rudder part of flying.
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I sincerely doubt it. I think he'd laugh his a$$ off and say sometimes it chirps, sometimes it doesn't. Get serious. Get a grip.
 
Henning said:
I've had people express shock that I would stall the 310 onto the runway as they land at Redline/Vmc.
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Anecdote...

...first lesson in an Apache at New Tamiami working towards my multi.

On my first landing, I held it off and held it off and held it off, and...chirp! Very satisfying touchdown with the yoke way back.

Reaction?

"******mit! You cannot land this plane like a 150! Let me show you..."

And he flew it on. Against all my instincts, while I was with him I flew it on as well.

Later, I reverted to landing twins pretty much exactly like I land 150's. Stipulated it may not work for all twins all the time, but has worked with all I've flown, mainly Apaches and Aztecs.
 
Went out and shot some more takeoffs and landings today and the problem really came down to not having enough airspeed down final.

I found that if I keep it to about 70 mph over the threshold, there's still enough energy to get a nice flare and bleed off the speed. Still chirps but lacks the screeching.
 
itsjames2011 said:
Went out and shot some more takeoffs and landings today and the problem really came down to not having enough airspeed down final.

I found that if I keep it to about 70 mph over the threshold, there's still enough energy to get a nice flare and bleed off the speed. Still chirps but lacks the screeching.
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Did these approaches happen to be steeper by any chance?
 
I own a JD fly a 172H. I found on my plane using flaps 30 my stall horn is blaring at me as I fly in slow flight and can even gain 40 PFM in that configuration. I know a normal landing I hear the stall horn just start to go off as I start my flair, with this is very rarely hear the tires chirp, but do from time to time. I know some will blast me on the horn going off as I start my flair, but again this is after a ton of flying my plane in slow flight to know where it actually stalls.
 
itsjames2011 said:
Went out and shot some more takeoffs and landings today and the problem really came down to not having enough airspeed down final.

I found that if I keep it to about 70 mph over the threshold, there's still enough energy to get a nice flare and bleed off the speed. Still chirps but lacks the screeching.
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The 172M I trained in gives a normal landing approach speed of 55 - 65 knots at 40 degrees of flaps. That's 63 to 75 mph. It typically chose 60 knots (about 70 mph) and pegged that speed on short final. I had plenty of energy for a smooth round-out and flare.

What airspeed were you using previously for final approach? I am skeptical you had no energy for the flare unless you were previously very slow on final. Stall speed should be something around 41 knots (47 mph), but that's at gross weight, so it'll be even less when solo.

Anyway, double check in your POH, but 70 mph seems about right. Peg that speed on final approach (accept nothing less!), then transition to a smooth round-out and flare.

[EDIT] - This 172H POH gives 69 mph at 40 degrees of flaps as the landing approach speed.
 
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asechrest said:
The 172M I trained in gives a normal landing approach speed of 55 - 65 knots at 40 degrees of flaps. That's 63 to 75 mph. It typically chose 60 knots (about 70 mph) and pegged that speed on short final. I had plenty of energy for a smooth round-out and flare.

What airspeed were you using previously for final approach? I am skeptical you had no energy for the flare unless you were previously very slow on final. Stall speed should be something around 41 knots (47 mph), but that's at gross weight, so it'll be even less when solo.

Anyway, double check in your POH, but 70 mph seems about right. Peg that speed on final approach (accept nothing less!), then transition to a smooth round-out and flare.

[EDIT] - This 172H POH gives 69 mph at 40 degrees of flaps as the landing approach speed.
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My book says between 65 and 75 MPH so I decided to shoot for the middle and it's working well. In the video I was over the threshold at 60 MPH with flaps at 30 and didn't seem to have enough energy to flare it out. I was also just about at max gross.
 
Your approach looked good BTW. I'm not a CFI, but what it looked like to me was that you flew right to the RW heard the stall horn and flared. Try being a
little more patience and when you get over the RW hold the touchdown off until its ready to land.

BTW, I'm not saying there necessarily anything wrong with your touchdown, just something to consider.
 
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I'm learning in a 1975 C172M myself. The airpseeds I'm being taught are within the POH guidelines and seem to work well. Flaps 30, 70 knots until short final, then raise up just a bit to 65 knots, hold it right there until I round out to level flight, focus on the far end of the runway and as airspeed starts to bleed off, begin my flare, hold it off and keep pulling back then just let it gently touch down on the runway.

Looked and sounded like a good landing to me. Granted, I'm only a student pilot, 15.6 hours, 48 total landings, but I've had my share of hard landings with plenty of chirps and screeches. This was a good one.

I think the chirp was so prominent on this landing due to the fact you were carrying a little extra ground speed since you had to add power to make your aiming point. I wouldn't worry about it at all.
 
65 knots is too fast. Your range is 55-65. Use 55. Maybe 60. Look at the short field approach speed and adjust it for your actual gross weight (it's proportional to the square root of gross weight, and the POH lists it for max gross).

Your landings will be A LOT shorter, and every bit as safe. Much more safe when you have a real short field to deal with. Or even just the PTS 400 feet. You can easily float 400 feet with an extra 10 knots on final.
 
MAKG1 said:
65 knots is too fast. Your range is 55-65. Use 55. Maybe 60. Look at the short field approach speed and adjust it for your actual gross weight (it's proportional to the square root of gross weight, and the POH lists it for max gross).

Your landings will be A LOT shorter, and every bit as safe. Much more safe when you have a real short field to deal with. Or even just the PTS 400 feet. You can easily float 400 feet with an extra 10 knots on final.
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The 1967 is marked in MPH and not KTS. 65-70MPH has solved all of my problems and these days I don't usually hear the chirp at all :)
 
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