C150 down in NY

SkyDog58 said:
The FAA web site states "We are currently processing permanent Airmen Certificates for temporary certificates that were issued approximately August 1, 2015".

So I agree with those who say it is possible she has passed her checkride and no one has come forward to tell the media that. It is very possible that she pushed hard and got it done just before heading off to school and was wanting to show off a bit to her friends and ran into trouble.

However if she had passed her checkride, I am surprised that no one has yet to come forward and correct the news reports. This could be done by her family, CFI, DPE or the FBO who rented the aircraft to her. So while I agree it is possible she just passed, I am a little doubtful based upon the lack of new information that corrects the initial reporting.

There is a high probability that she was known as a solo student by the FBO who rented her the plane but the FBO did not know she was illegally taking up a passenger. That does happen.
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These are my thoughts exactly.....:sad:
 
acrophile said:
No. The FAA database only lists the student pilot certificate, but that's not the same as the database asserting that the individual had only a student pilot certificate.

Furthermore, you don't know yet which occupant was the pilot.

Yes, and it's hardly unusual for newly certified pilots to take a friend flying.
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Agree. When I had my private checkride scheduled, my best friend was calling me everyday asking if he could fly with me yet and I probably took him up within a few days after getting my sign off. So sadly this could have been a new private pilot taking her best friend up as her first passenger.

RIP

Also regarding the FAA search function, it's been three weeks since I passed my A&P oral / practical and it still hasn't updated for me.
 
ted heck said:
Are we talking about the same C-150?
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Piloting any airplane alone is a lot of responsibility when you have 0-40 hours and only a student pilot certificate.

Though, lets be honest.. if she was only signed off to solo and snuck a friend out for a quick ride, that alone probably has little to do with the cause of the accident.
 
dell30rb said:
Piloting any airplane alone is a lot of responsibility when you have 0-40 hours and only a student pilot certificate.

Though, lets be honest.. if she was only signed off to solo and snuck a friend out for a quick ride, that alone probably has little to do with the cause of the accident.
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I beg to differ. I think disdain for rules and regulations cuts very deep. The same attitude that allows you to ignore one rule, will also cause you to disregard others. It's a very slippery slope, often with a tragic ending.
Of course we don't know whether that's true in this case, but the point stands.
 
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I'm completely content to assume she had a perfectly valid certificate until someone who actually knows says otherwise. It shouldn't take long for the truth to come out and while it might be a contributing factor it's probably not the cause which is the more important part anyway.

The FAA administrators can worry about assigning blame, as pilots our focus should be understanding what happened, why, and trying to avoid such a thing in the future.
 
RotorDude said:
I beg to differ. I think disdain for rules and regulations cuts very deep. The same attitude that allows you to ignore one rule, will also cause you to disregard others.
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I knew someone would say that. It's true, to a point. But with no other information the act alone, for an 18 year old does not represent a deep seeded disdain for rules and regulations.
 
dell30rb said:
I knew someone would say that. It's true, to a point. But with no other information the act alone, for an 18 year old does not represent a deep seeded disdain for rules and regulations.
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Maybe not, but it gives you a good hint.
(Again not specific to this case, where we don't know the facts.)
 
It is my understanding that the pilot was certificated and had rented and flown the particular aircraft before. We will have to wait for the NTSB for confirmations and details of circumstances leading up to the crash. Tragic and baffling. Weather not likely a factor since it was a nearly perfect fall day.
 
She got her ticket recently, I think end of August. Trained in a Warrior.
 
petrolero said:
What did the instructor necessarily do wrong, though?

Instructor signs of student with limitations x, y and z. Student breaks all of those and even some other FARs... how is that on the instructor?

I am curious as to what the FAA does when the student deliberately busts the rules laid out by the CFI... and the FAR about not carrying pax, etc.
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If it's really clear that it was an unusual thing, and blatant disregard of the CFI's "rules" then the situation could be just fine for the CFI, especially if he/she has been careful to document the training. On the other hand, if there's a known judgement deficiency, the CFI could be in trouble for not taking steps to prevent stuff.
 
Johann said:
She got her ticket recently, I think end of August. Trained in a Warrior.
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Cool. How did you determine this? Did you know her or have local info?

RyanShort1 said:
If it's really clear that it was an unusual thing, and blatant disregard of the CFI's "rules" then the situation could be just fine for the CFI, especially if he/she has been careful to document the training. On the other hand, if there's a known judgement deficiency, the CFI could be in trouble for not taking steps to prevent stuff.
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Reasonable enough. Thanks
 
Johann said:
She got her ticket recently, I think end of August. Trained in a Warrior.
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Again if this information was accurate, was she checked out in that plane. I know 150's are training aircraft, but they are not Warriors.
 
Anytime fellow pilots (students or otherwise) die is awful, but the death of two young kids still in their teens is really hard. :(:(:(

Just remember while some of you are speculating about what happened, there are friends, family and parents out there who lost two young promising individuals with their whole lives ahead of them. Very sad.
 
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narchee said:
Anytime fellow pilots (students or otherwise) die is awful, but the death of two young kids still in their teens is really hard. :(:(:(

Just remember while some of you are speculating about what happened, there are friends, family and parents out there who lost two young promising individuals with their wholes live ahead of them. Very sad.
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No doubt sad....:sad::sad:..

If the plane broke, then I will be very sorry for the victims...

If she got slow and stalled it... Then I question her piloting skills and her instructors ability to stress that important fact...
 
N801BH said:
No doubt sad....:sad::sad:..

If the plane broke, then I will be very sorry for the victims...

If she got slow and stalled it... Then I question her piloting skills and her instructors ability to stress that important fact...
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Off topic... I see you're in Jackson Hole. I landed there for the first time not so long ago. What a great place to live and fly! I'm jealous...
 
Facts, not speculation: NTSB has verified that the pilot was certificated in August with 130 hr experience. Aircraft may have spun in. No distress call was made. Witnesses report engine sputtering, quitting, and restarting prior to or while in a spiraling descent. No post crash fire. Engine teardown is still in progress. This has been tragic for our community and still baffling that it ended so badly.
 
I live and fly in the area, and work in the town where the aircraft was based. I was actually in the air that day, and weather was definitely not an issue. The terrain in the area is not terribly inhospitable. Local speculation is that the crash was the result of a spin, but that's yet to be verified.

The crash site is only a minute or two flying time from the departure airport, but they were reported to be in the air for 20 minutes prior to impact. Local reports are that the pilot had flown twice with the airplane's owner, was properly certificated as a private pilot (despite national news reports to the contrary) and was properly checked out for the rental. There was no "distress" call. The only reported communication was on the local CTAF at the time of departure. There is radar coverage in the area from Syracuse, so hopefully the investigators can learn something from reviewing the radar data.

Very sad situation for all involved...
 
And all of this new info that she got her certificate in August meshes with the FAA website that stated "We are currently processing permanent Airmen Certificates for temporary certificates that were issued approximately August 1, 2015". I guess the reporters do not believe in due diligence.
 
From Newstimes:

On Wednesday, the Federal Aviation Administration said Depuy had also qualified for a pilot license, which hadn't been reflected in their database of pilot records. The agency would not release the date of the license. A relative said it was in August.
 
Lowflynjack said:
From Newstimes:

On Wednesday, the Federal Aviation Administration said Depuy had also qualified for a pilot license, which hadn't been reflected in their database of pilot records. The agency would not release the date of the license. A relative said it was in August.
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Hmmm..

What is the big secret :dunno:.. After all, it is a public record.:rolleyes:
 
No post-crash fire... sputtering engine... lack of go-juice? If she was certified in a Warrior maybe she didn't climb up and check the fuel status on the 150 visually?
 
N801BH said:
Hmmm..

What is the big secret :dunno:.. After all, it is a public record.:rolleyes:
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Honestly it's likely in part that it takes the FAA a 6-8 weeks to get their records sorted out. They actually might not have the info readily available. Yes they SHOULD be able to look it up in the online system that the DPE used to sign-off, but that would require a government employee using their brain.
 
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rocketflyer84 said:
Yes they SHOULD be able to look it up in the online system that the DPE used to sign-off, but that would require a government employee using their brain.
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It would require extra work that serves no apparent purpose. Why should the public care at this point exactly what day in August the deceased pilot got her license, and why should they care so urgently that they can't just wait for the database update?
 
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acrophile said:
It would require extra work that serves no apparent purpose. Why should the public care at this point exactly what day in August the deceased pilot got her license, and why should they care so urgently that they can't just wait for the database update?
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Hmmmm..

If it was entered online by the CFI ( in the online system that the DPE used to sign-off )... In this day and age, that database update should happen in milliseconds...
 
N801BH said:
Hmmmm..

If it was entered online by the CFI ( in the online system that the DPE used to sign-off )... In this day and age, that database update should happen in milliseconds...
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You're assuming the government knows how to do IT...
 
Sorry for the victims. I don't understand how they got into a spin. We are trained how to establish glide speed in a engine out emergency. Did the pilot forget to fly the plane? We may never know.
 
TK211X said:
Please guide me step by step how you found that?
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I didn't "find" that, I am speculating, hence the question mark.
The NTSB final report, which may take a year or so, should have a "finding".
 
RotorDude said:
I didn't "find" that, I am speculating, hence the question mark.
The NTSB final report, which may take a year or so, should have a "finding".
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No im talking about the link. Did you search the main site?
 
evapilotaz said:
Sorry for the victims. I don't understand how they got into a spin. We are trained how to establish glide speed in a engine out emergency. Did the pilot forget to fly the plane? We may never know.
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The engine wasn't completely dead, at least initially. It kept sputtering, dying and restarting, until it finally quit (according to witnesses). This may have led the pilot into thinking/hoping she may be able to extract "just a little bit more" out of the failing engine, just enough to make it to the runway. While doing so she probably got slower and slower, with the nose higher and higher, at some point stalling while not in trim, perhaps trying to raise a low wing with aileron instead of rudder, which led to a spin. This is fairly classical, if in fact it happened that way (only speculating of course). We are trained to handle "clean" situations: the instructor says "your engine just died!" and pulls the throttle, so we follow a routine, one two three, instructor is happy, power is restored, and we move on to the next maneuver.
The real life "mixed bag" situation of partial and intermittent failure(s) that she likely encountered is rarely if ever practiced, probably not even in a sim, so we are our own test pilots at that point.
 
TK211X said:
No im talking about the link. Did you search the main site?
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I saw an article from today that said the prelim NTSB report has been published, so I checked the date on this page and there it was.
 
RotorDude said:
The engine wasn't completely dead, at least initially. It kept sputtering, dying and restarting, until it finally quit (according to witnesses). This may have led the pilot into thinking/hoping she may be able to extract "just a little bit more" out of the failing engine, just enough to make it to the runway. While doing so she probably got slower and slower, with the nose higher and higher, at some point stalling while not in trim, perhaps trying to raise a low wing with aileron instead of rudder, which led to a spin. This is fairly classical, if in fact it happened that way (only speculating of course). We are trained to handle "clean" situations: the instructor says "your engine just died!" and pulls the throttle, so we follow a routine, one two three, instructor is happy, power is restored, and we move on to the next maneuver.
The real life "mixed bag" situation of partial and intermittent failure(s) that she likely encountered is rarely if ever practiced, probably not even in a sim, so we are our own test pilots at that point.
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Airspeed is LIFE.....:rolleyes:
 
RotorDude said:
The real life "mixed bag" situation of partial and intermittent failure(s) that she likely encountered is rarely if ever practiced, probably not even in a sim, so we are our own test pilots at that point.
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Good point. I had this discussion with my CFI. We ended up working on it in the sim and the plane. Definable different than a complete failure in cruise.
 
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