C-172 over 100K

brien23

brien23

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Brien
Went to the store to buy a couple of steak's to grill, after the sticker price of the steak's that $100,000 Cessna 172 does not look so high now.
 
write-stuff said:
Prices for EVERYTHING are just crazy stupid right now.
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Welcome to inflation! No one under 40 has experienced it, and might be a year or so before they understand it.

Inflation in April accelerated at its fastest pace in more than 12 years as the U.S. economic recovery kicked into gear and energy prices jumped higher, the Labor Department reported Wednesday.

The Consumer Price Index, which measures a basket of goods as well as energy and housing costs, rose 4.2% from a year earlier. A Dow Jones survey had expected a 3.6% increase. The month-to-month gain was 0.8%, against the expected 0.2%.​
 
$100K plus 172 M and N models have been this way for a while...

What is even scarier is the price of 150 & 152. A very clean local 150M just sold for $46K day after it was posted on Trade-A-Plane.
 
Definitely became more apparent last year. Saw one on TaP earlier I was really scratching my head at. $180k for a 172P with just paint and interior o_O
 
A couple years ago the guys in the hangar across from mine bought a Skyhawk. The paint was not as good as my Mooney, in fact it was awful. The interior was awful, frayed cloth, vs the nice leather in mine. The panel was pathetic, one comm radio and little else, vs. the IFR setup in my Mooney. It had a bigger engine, so it burned more gas than my Mooney but went far slower. And yes, they paid far more for it than I did for my Mooney. Airplane prices are all a little nuts right now I think. But Skyhawk prices are in a league of their own.

By the way, I became a vegetarian in large part because of the sticker shock at the butcher's, and that was 1986.
 
steingar said:
.......

By the way, I became a vegetarian in large part because of the sticker shock at the butcher's, and that was 1986.
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I don’t know ... these days seems like basic stuff like chicken or turkey ( not talking here about quality beef ) is actually cheaper then preparing an equivalent dish without any meat using various veggie substitutes.
 
Skyhawks only led the market. Almost all aircraft are getting crazy expensive...
 
My partner mentioned how much we could make if we sold our 172, till I mentioned we'd have to spend all that money we made to buy another one.
 
A friend bought a nice 2400 hour Total Time 172 M from my son in law last August for $45K. Engine past TBO, decent interior and paint, 430 W. He ran an ad for $65K a couple of weeks ago just to test the water. The phone rang off the hook,
 
MBDiagMan said:
A friend bought a nice 2400 hour Total Time 172 M from my son in law last August for $45K. Engine past TBO, decent interior and paint, 430 W. He ran an ad for $65K a couple of weeks ago just to test the water. The phone rang off the hook,
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Know of a 172N owner that tells they get a letter a week from a different person asking if they want to sell their plane.
 
steingar said:
A couple years ago the guys in the hangar across from mine bought a Skyhawk. The paint was not as good as my Mooney, in fact it was awful. The interior was awful, frayed cloth, vs the nice leather in mine. The panel was pathetic, one comm radio and little else, vs. the IFR setup in my Mooney. It had a bigger engine, so it burned more gas than my Mooney but went far slower. And yes, they paid far more for it than I did for my Mooney. Airplane prices are all a little nuts right now I think. But Skyhawk prices are in a league of their own.
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It’s because the Skyhawk doesn’t have a Johnson Bar. :)
steingar said:
By the way, I became a vegetarian in large part because of the sticker shock at the butcher's, and that was 1986.
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You seriously claim you became a vegetarian because of the price of meat (in large part) and own an airplane? That’s a little funny...right?
 
Man, you must prefer enough room to play basketball in the cockpit. I’m 6’1”, almost 200 pounds and have way more than enough room. What model Mooney did you fly?
 
Jim K said:
Death, taxes, and mooney owners getting defensive when someone says moonies are small...
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You've gotten too accustomed to that SUV you fly. Technically they're wider than a Bo or any PA28. But I feel cramped.
 
idahoflier said:
Skyhawks only led the market. Almost all aircraft are getting crazy expensive...
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Not twins! Although the care and feeding is different but I'm amazed how cheap the initial acquisition costs of twins are.

For the performance Moonies continue to be the best bargain (though not my cup of tea)

Seriously though, why are 172 prices that high? Just student nostalgia? It's a slow, inefficient, not that fun to fly (or comfortable) plane. If you don't want complex why not a Tiger? Simple, fun to fly, so much faster..

It's a genuine question. What draws people to it?
 
Have you looked at the price of Tigers lately?
 
Rising aircraft prices are making me feel better about the $40k+ we're putting into upgrades on our 172.... We should be able to actually get our money back if needed....
 
Radar Contact said:
You seriously claim you became a vegetarian because of the price of meat (in large part) and own an airplane? That’s a little funny...right?
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In 1986 I didn't own an airplane, or much of anything else. In 1992 I piled everything I owned into the back of my newly purchased 1/2 ton pickup truck, and that included my motorcycle, so move back East.
 
MBDiagMan said:
So, how large are you that you don’t fit in a Mooney?
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Stocky guys can have fitment trouble in Mooneys. I flew down to Kentucky to let a guy sit in mine, he was by no means portly, but he was a big stocky guy and he really didn't fit. Ain't for everyone. Definitely for little shrimps like me. Sux for the rest of you. Short body Mooneys are still the biggest bang for your buck in GA.
 
Tantalum said:
Seriously though, why are 172 prices that high?
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Packed flight schools needing them, more people becoming plane owners, and people getting away from retracts further increasing demand for straight leg aircraft would be my guess.
 
Sierra_Hotel said:
Have you looked at the price of Tigers lately?
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Bought a Tiger for $47k in 2017. Probably got a bit of a deal. Insured it and got PPL licensed in it. Three years later it was totaled by hail while tied down. Could not find a comparable Tiger under $100K+...and it is worse now. Fast for a fixed gear while insurance is scaring some away from retracts.

Bought a V tail Bonanza, which I love, for way less then a Tiger but ugghhh the first hinsurance. You pay one way or another...
 
TheFB said:
Bought a Tiger for $47k in 2017. Probably got a bit of a deal. Insured it and got PPL licensed in it. Three years later it was totaled by hail while tied down. Could not find a comparable Tiger under $100K+...and it is worse now. Fast for a fixed gear while insurance is scaring some away from retracts.

Bought a V tail Bonanza, which I love, for way less then a Tiger but ugghhh the first hinsurance. You pay one way or another...
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Me too - my 205 has almost tripled since I bought it in 2017. Sometimes I look at the used market now and I’ll see something like a 182 for $100k and think to myself “wow, great deal.” And then I’ll remember that I bought twice the plane for half the money, and just feel bad for anyone that wants in now.
 
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TheFB said:
Bought a V tail Bonanza, which I love, for way less then a Tiger but ugghhh the first hinsurance. You pay one way or another...
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I am year 2 into a 67 V35 ownership. I came over from a cherokee 180 which I paid $380 a year for insurance. First year Bo insurance was $2200!! Second year Bo insurance was $2100 so I upped the hull a bit and back at $2200! Hahaha ugh but it's worth it to own an iconic plane. Will see what next year brings for insurance. I was shocked mine went down considering what I was ready before renewal.
 
I just sold my Vtail (some of my pay is dependent on the market being well), so that means the markets and the prices will continue to climb. Until I feel safe enough to buy again, then that would be the top. Just like my housing purchases; they all seem to be at the top of the markets...
 
It’s not just planes…

“Standard & Poor’s said Tuesday that its S&P CoreLogic Case-Shiller national home price index posted a 13.2% annual gain in March, up from 12% in February — marking the 10th straight month of accelerating prices. The last time home prices surged at such a rapid pace was more than 15 years ago in December 2005. The national index is up 32% from its July 2006 peak.The 20-City Composite posted a 13.3% annual gain, up from 12% a month earlier. The results far outpaced analysts’ expectations of a 12.5% annual gain, according to Bloomberg consensus estimates.”

I hope we’re not just seeing a general inflationary spiral.
 
FastEddieB said:
I hope we’re not just seeing a general inflationary spiral.
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Going back to my econ classes, inflation in prices is primarily supported by inflation in wages. If wages are not going up, then there is a natural cap to the inflation.
Until recently, wage inflation data always lagged very significantly compared to consumer price information, especially as it relates to energy as a component of the consumer price.
Over the past decade, the Federal Reserve has made a number of what I think are not well understood changes in policy. The Fed has largely moved away from caring about inflation in the consumer price and is more closely watching wage inflation. So far, wage inflation is really only happening on the bottom end with "unskilled labor" which although is large in numbers does not produce core inflation throughout the system since the majority of the disposable income by this group is on non-durable goods; and this group is also recovering from years of debt and stagnant wages.
So, do not expect much movement from the Fed anytime soon; and you should expect significant shifts and short term price hikes and supply and demand in many markets is disrupted and adjusts to a "post COVID" world (incidentally, I think COVID compressed one to two decades of market changes into a year and many things have not re-balanced yet)

Last point, the Cash-Shiller is very misleading on the high point numbers. It focuses on the average price, not the median price, and not the year over year change for identical properties. If you talk to real estate brokers, over the past two years it has been the upper income who have been moving and buying much more than the lower income. This causes a bias in the Case-Shiller index.

Tim
 
Tantalum said:
Not twins! Although the care and feeding is different but I'm amazed how cheap the initial acquisition costs of twins are.
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Agreed! Twins are a great bargain right now! There are well equipped nice ones cheaper than some Skyhawks. If I had a real x-country mission I would definitely be in the twin market.

Tantalum said:
Seriously though, why are 172 prices that high? Just student nostalgia? It's a slow, inefficient, not that fun to fly (or comfortable) plane. If you don't want complex why not a Tiger? Simple, fun to fly, so much faster..
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If you don't enjoy flying a Skyhawk, you're doing it wrong... ;-) I think you're correct in your previous assessments that it has a lot to do with being the aircraft pilots learned to fly in. People have a fear of the unknown and most aren't likely to go out and purchase something like a Tiger because they have no experience with it. I was fortunate to belong to a club for several years that had various different makes and models and so I was able to gain some experience before becoming an owner. I would encourage new pilots to try and fly different makes and models if possible, but it's not always possible and they're likely left with renting what they trained in, a Skyhawk.

I do disagree with your analysis that a Skyhawk is slow and isn't fun to fly. Yes, it can't keep up with a C182 or a Tiger and some models will even lose to an Archer, but does 20 -30 kts really matter? In most cases not really. Door to door that 30 kts doesn't buy you much. To get performance that matters, the acquisition, maintenance and insurance costs really start to climb fast.
 
WDD said:
Packed flight schools needing them
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This I understand.

But for the person becoming the plane owner or moving away from retract there are so many other planes out there that don't experience this big price delta. Unless the Piper / Mooney one door thing really bothers people that much
 
Sierra_Hotel said:
Have you looked at the price of Tigers lately?
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they weren't always priced as high, and at least you get a fast, unique, but still "simple to fly" package. Maybe more people discovered what a gem the Tiger is and that drove prices up!
 
idahoflier said:
do disagree with your analysis that a Skyhawk is slow and isn't fun to fly. Yes, it can't keep up with a C182 or a Tiger and some models will even lose to an Archer, but does 20 -30 kts really matter? In most cases not really. Door to door that 30 kts doesn't buy you much. To get performance that matters, the acquisition, maintenance and insurance costs really start to climb fast.
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"fun to fly" is in the eye of the beholder, I give you that. And the speed will be mission dependent. A "typical" winter flight for me would be MYF - MMH .. no one flies that direct, but for sake of argument if you fly that route direct the time difference is not huge, but not tiny either. Under 2 hrs to a little over 2.5 hrs.

Objectively I don't hate the Skyhawk, part of that is PoA hyperbole. Before Aztec/Cirrus days I would gab a Skyhawk for flights with non pilots (vs the Archer, alone) because they like the cabin better. Fine. But what gets me with the plane is what I feel to be an unfair price vs performance relationship with that plane.. and to that point, I always felt that Mooney's were grossly under priced for the package you get.

With any other plane there's a big range, Bonanzas, etc., can be had for "cheap" or for a lot of money.. but it seems the 172 just parks itself in the pricing stratosphere
 
Fwiw, I just bought a Cherokee 180 in the low 30's. Newish paint. Needs some radio lovin' but the PA32 below it in the hangar has dual kx155 coming out shortly for a total panel upgrade if I wanted to use those. I can the fly the Six whenever I want, but the 180 is so light on the controls and cheap to fly. It has a Horton STOL kit, since stalls are such a problem in the Cherokee. But it's fun little plane for the 100 dollar hamburger. Plus my sister wants to learn and it's the perfect platform for that. Never been a fan of renting if you can find the right asset and have the means.
 
idahoflier said:
If you don't enjoy flying a Skyhawk, you're doing it wrong... ;-)

....

I do disagree with your analysis that a Skyhawk is slow and isn't fun to fly. Yes, it can't keep up with a C182 or a Tiger and some models will even lose to an Archer, but does 20 -30 kts really matter? In most cases not really. Door to door that 30 kts doesn't buy you much. To get performance that matters, the acquisition, maintenance and insurance costs really start to climb fast.
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I dislike flying in the 172. Both as pilot or passenger. I find the high wings block a significant amount of my view for other aircraft, I hit me head on the dam wings too many times when pre-flighting (ok, only a couple but it was enough), it is so fricking slow. My hamburger run is an hour in a SR22 doing 169 KTAS at 8K. I do not as a general rule, poke holes in the sky or fly to the airport next door. A plane is meant to go places! And I like to go!

Tim
 
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