C-170 upgrades

Tom-D

Tom-D

Taxi to Parking
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Tom-D
I have been playing with the idea of making the 170 a totally modified off airport type, with 180 titanium gear legs from TDaero, Bush Wheel kit to include a 10" tail wheel, 34" mains, IO-360-C engine, light weight interior, fold up rear seats, ski and float kits attachments.

all these mods have STCs no field approval needed.

think it would sell ?

is there a gravel bar too small?
 
Anything will sell for the right price. This is the '48, right? Still have fabric wings?

Remember, you were the one who taught me that you can buy better than you can build. I think it would sell, but kind of doubt you could get back all of the money you would put into it. I could be wrong, but if it is a '48, the market is already against you.
 
Curious why the IO-360 Continental? I know you're a Continental guy, but would expect most people would prefer a Lycoming. Wouldn't a Lycoming be less $$$ to overhaul with 2 less cylinders and be lighter to boot? Put an IO-390 in it and get the STC for the application and I bet people will buy the STC for future projects.
 
I say go for it. Just don't end up like this guy...

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Fearless Tower said:
Anything will sell for the right price. This is the '48, right? Still have fabric wings?

Remember, you were the one who taught me that you can buy better than you can build. I think it would sell, but kind of doubt you could get back all of the money you would put into it. I could be wrong, but if it is a '48, the market is already against you.
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You can buy better than you can build, but you can build the one you want.

and there are no 170s built for off airport work for sale.
 
pilot117 said:
Curious why the IO-360 Continental? I know you're a Continental guy, but would expect most people would prefer a Lycoming. Wouldn't a Lycoming be less $$$ to overhaul with 2 less cylinders and be lighter to boot? Put an IO-390 in it and get the STC for the application and I bet people will buy the STC for future projects.
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there are only 2 engine upgrades that will give 220 horses, Lycoming ain't one of them.

Just the IO-360 and the PZL Franklin
 
maybe there are none for sale because a 180 or 185 does the work better. tundra tires on a 170 just reminds me of big tire 4WD pickups that are sparkly clean.
 
Tom-D said:
You can buy better than you can build, but you can build the one you want.
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Totally agree with that, but if you are building it with the intent to sell, it helps to already have a buyer.

Tom-D said:
and there are no 170s built for off airport work for sale.
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Really? Seems like I see B models for sale fairly often that are set up for off field bush style flying. That is why I question the idea of making a '48 into something like that....seems most folks looking to buy a airplane of that type and are willing to spend the cash want a B.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Really? Seems like I see B models for sale fairly often that are set up for off field bush style flying.

Show me one
That is why I question the idea of making a '48 into something like that....seems most folks looking to buy a airplane of that type and are willing to spend the cash want a B.
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You may have a point for the "B" and big flaps, but the 48 can be landed as short as a "B"
 
Tom-D said:
You may have a point for the "B" and big flaps, but the 48 can be landed as short as a "B"
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True....I love the '48 personally. I much prefer the v-struts and the vertical stab, but I have found I am in the minority compared to the B lovers.
 
Tom-D said:
there are only 2 engine upgrades that will give 220 horses, Lycoming ain't one of them.

Just the IO-360 and the PZL Franklin
Click to expand...

I must be mistaken. I thought the IO-360 Continental was rated @ 210hp. What's the weight difference between the IO-360 Continental & the IO-390 Lyc? Does the weight savings on the Lyc make up for the 5% hp difference in any way?
 
pilot117 said:
I must be mistaken. I thought the IO-360 Continental was rated @ 210hp. What's the weight difference between the IO-360 Continental & the IO-390 Lyc? Does the weight savings on the Lyc make up for the 5% hp difference in any way?
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I have not seen a STC for the IO-390. or engineering to put it on a 170.

And I really don't want to do a one time STC and all the required testing to complete it.
 
There is an STC for the I0-390 but I don't think they included the 48's. Only the A and B models as well as the 172 and 175. They're in Alaska.
In fact, I don't know of any STC's that cover the I0-360 Cont in the 48's either. The gent I spoke with that had an STC for the engine said only A and B models were covered and the engines and props were from the 336 or 337 skymasters only. Maybe there are others....?


Frank
 
Sounds like you're building another unsellable aircraft Tom. I guess you can sell it to the insurance company like your last aircraft.

If you're building it to fly it yourself and keep it for a long time, by all means. If you're doing this in regard to what you think you can sell on the market, you should do some damn careful market research.

I'm not too impressed with the state of the antique market. You couldn't sell your Fairchild, and Greg has had trouble selling his 195. Small sample size admittedly, but not good.
 
I'd put a hard pencil to making an old 170 a fire-breather. In the markets with which I'm familiar, they are "gentlemen airplanes" vs. working airplanes. The extra ponies are nice to have, but spending a lot of money to upgrade doesn't make much sense.
 
Tom,

The titanium gear is nice. But I'd advise to forget it. You'll NEVER get a return on the high cost.

Karl
 
steingar said:
Sounds like you're building another unsellable aircraft Tom. I guess you can sell it to the insurance company like your last aircraft.
Did you intend to insult me with that remark?
If you're building it to fly it yourself and keep it for a long time, by all means. If you're doing this in regard to what you think you can sell on the market, you should do some damn careful market research.

I'm not too impressed with the state of the antique market. You couldn't sell your Fairchild, and Greg has had trouble selling his 195. Small sample size admittedly, but not good.
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Most of the GA pilots do not want a collectable aircraft, they want a spam can they can fly the wings off and junk, the market is small for any classic aircraft, plus the folks who buy the classics are hanging on their money.

It really is a bad time for the sellers simply because the new generations wants something for nothing.

I had plenty buyers for the Fairchild, but no one want to pay the price.
 
kgruber said:
Tom,

The titanium gear is nice. But I'd advise to forget it. You'll NEVER get a return on the high cost.

Karl
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Yeah but they sure look nice and set off the double puck Clevelands and the 34" Bushwheel & tire set.

What's another $10k between friends.
 
If they don't want to pay the price they are prospects, lookers (or tire-kickers as you sometimes call them) rather than buyers. By definition, buyers are those who do rather than those who don't.

Tom-D said:
Most of the GA pilots do not want a collectable aircraft, they want a spam can they can fly the wings off and junk, the market is small for any classic aircraft, plus the folks who buy the classics are hanging on their money.

It really is a bad time for the sellers simply because the new generations wants something for nothing.

I had plenty buyers for the Fairchild, but no one want to pay the price.
Click to expand...
 
I meant no insult, only to point out that you were utterly unable to sell the last aircraft into which you piled money. I try very hard not to make the same mistake twice. Occasionally I succeed. Occasionally.

Tom-D said:
Most of the GA pilots do not want a collectable aircraft, they want a spam can they can fly the wings off and junk, the market is small for any classic aircraft, plus the folks who buy the classics are hanging on their money.

It really is a bad time for the sellers simply because the new generations wants something for nothing.

I had plenty buyers for the Fairchild, but no one want to pay the price.
Click to expand...

Again, you couldn't sell it. The price is what your customer is willing to pay. You are correct, the market for a collectable aircraft is small, since the number of aircraft collectors worldwide can probably be counted on the fingers of one hand.

Now you're talking about doing the same exact thing, loading a bunch of money into an airplane project expecting a return. Maybe you'll get it, maybe not. I myself wouldn't do it unless I had done a boatload of research and knew there was a market for what I was making. Perhaps I just don't have as much money to throw around as you.
 
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