Buying planes from distant places

WannFly

WannFly

Final Approach
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ok so I have been drooling all over trade-a-plane and controller and came across a few nice ones I actually like... but am I better off buying something locally? probably wont get exactly what I want, but everything looks great on classifieds and pictures, I have to travel commercial and take my mechanic with me for a pre-buy and then if it turns our to be a absolutely junk, that's money all wasted right there. OR is it just a part of the game?

FlyIns in our winter wonderland would start in spring... so may be I will wait till then...

people with buying experiences, please chime in.
 
What other options are there....buy it and take a chance?

I left, what I thought was a nice plane, in Florida once. It was a basket case. I had the cashier's check and all the paperwork to purchase it....I also had a round trip ticket home just in case. :D
 
Majorly limiting yourself, you're not buying a pair of pants, it's a aircraft, might have to buy some cheap airline tickets or find a remote AP to look at a plane.

My first plane I bought from across the country, quite a fun flight back, actually probably the most fun I've had on a cross country.

Current ride, bought from 2 states away.
 
These days you can do a lot online. That includes getting scans of the logs and detailed pictures. Talk to the shop that maintains the plane. I have even tracked down and called former owners of planes. This takes time, not $.

Once you apply appropriate discounts to all the info (all of it has to be discounted to some degree), if the plane still meets your short list criteria, then consider spending some $. Part of your decision will be related to the type of airplane you are looking for. If it's a fairly well represented type (Cherokees, 150s, 172s, 182s, older V-tail, that sort of thing) you are best to limit the search radius and keep your costs down. If it is something rarer or specialized (re-engined Bonanza, RAM 340/414, vintage, antique, etc) you shouldn't limit your geography as the best plane/deal may be across the other side of the country. Using a recommended independent shop, near the seller, to send out a mechanic to have a look at the plane is one option I have used in the latter case.
 
GRG55 said:
These days you can do a lot online. That includes getting scans of the logs and detailed pictures. Talk to the shop that maintains the plane. I have even tracked down and called former owners of planes. This takes time, not $.

Once you apply appropriate discounts to all the info (all of it has to be discounted to some degree), if the plane still meets your short list criteria, then consider spending some $. Part of your decision will be related to the type of airplane you are looking for. If it's a fairly well represented type (Cherokees, 150s, 172s, 182s, older V-tail, that sort of thing) you are best to limit the search radius and keep your costs down. If it is something rarer or specialized (re-engined Bonanza, RAM 340/414, vintage, antique, etc) you shouldn't limit your geography as the best plane/deal may be across the other side of the country. Using a recommended independent shop, near the seller, to send out a mechanic to have a look at the plane is one option I have used in the latter case.
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sticking to a 172 for now till I get some more experience and IFR rating. Thanks for chiming in, few other things I need to consider is where the plan is from, if its from texas. I don't think they have engine heaters installed in them, not a big deal or expense to put it in though... yeah remote buy definitely expands my horizon and lot more options to choose from
 
James331 said:
Majorly limiting yourself, you're not buying a pair of pants, it's a aircraft, might have to buy some cheap airline tickets or find a remote AP to look at a plane.

My first plane I bought from across the country, quite a fun flight back, actually probably the most fun I've had on a cross country.

Current ride, bought from 2 states away.
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sounds fun. but then I need someone to fly it home too.... still a student and yet to solo. even after solo don't think I can ferry it back before I get the PPL. but I can take an instructor with me and get some great cross country experience!!
 
Ask a POAer that is close to go and take a look see. Ask them to take more pics and send them to you... Get copies of the logs or at least copies of the last couple of annuals. All that can be done before you travel. It can be done, mine was 1000 nm away and as someone said the trip home was a memorable event.
 
What you need is an HONEST compression test and an inspection for corrosion. The rest of the plane can be inspected by the you, the pilot buyer. Only way I know to get an honest compression test and an honest look for corrosion is to hire a mechanic and have him do an inspection with the owner NOT present. That isn't easy. Some buyers take their own mechanic and he brings his own tools including compression test equipment (borrows the compressor). Good luck!
 
I bought my twin over the Internet. Had a thorough pre buy done ,by a shop of my choice,also had my local mechanic talk to the mechanic that was doing the pre buy. The airplane was as advertised,got what I was expecting. Also I flew my trade down to them ,so I had a ride home if it didn't work out. The aircraft was in Texas and I was in mass.
 
Bought the Fairchild sight unseen, on the word of a mutual friend of the seller. We wanted a project, that's what we got. bought 34V 15 minutes after we first saw it. Bought the V-EZ off E-bay.

Ya gotta know what a good deal is, and be ready to buy when you see it.
 
coloradobluesky said:
What you need is an HONEST compression test and an inspection for corrosion. The rest of the plane can be inspected by the you, the pilot buyer. Only way I know to get an honest compression test and an honest look for corrosion is to hire a mechanic and have him do an inspection with the owner NOT present. That isn't easy. Some buyers take their own mechanic and he brings his own tools including compression test equipment (borrows the compressor). Good luck!
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What compression shud I be looking for? I see in 70s in the ads, but don't know if it's good or bad

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I bought a Phoenix plane and brought her home to Texas.

Traveled out twice for initial view/flight and then inspection. (FF miles, friend in town, and a family trip for Spring Training made it acceptable to me if the deal fell through). Seller and I flew her home and I put him up at my place for a night and gave him a commercial ticket home.

Don't limit yourself to local purchases. The logistics are easily managed.
 
WannFly said:
sounds fun. but then I need someone to fly it home too.... still a student and yet to solo. even after solo don't think I can ferry it back before I get the PPL. but I can take an instructor with me and get some great cross country experience!!
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Don't deprive yourself of this.

Have a CFI come with you and fly her back, you'll learn TONS and have a blast, you'll probably also knock out any insurance dual time required.
 
Tom-D said:
As a Student,, ??? insurance dual time? I wonder why he is a student ??
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As a CFI I never knew that hours as a student didn't count as dual received, is that a new FAR Tom?
 
James331 said:
As a CFI I never knew that hours as a student didn't count as dual received, is that a new FAR Tom?
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It's a common sense thing ,, sorry you missed it..
Training in the aircraft counts for insurance, student or not.
 
Tom-D said:
It's a common sense thing ,, sorry you missed it..
Training in the aircraft counts for insurance, student or not.
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So he receives training while flying it back home with his CFI, builds in make model hours for insurance, and hours for solo, PPL, etc.

Again, not flying it back is a huge disservice to himself IMO.
 
WannFly said:
sounds fun. but then I need someone to fly it home too.... still a student and yet to solo. even after solo don't think I can ferry it back before I get the PPL. but I can take an instructor with me and get some great cross country experience!!
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You can fly your airplane home with a CFI acting as PIC. No big deal, unless the aircraft is being moved under specific instructions on a Special Airworthiness Certificate, upon which the FAA is likely to say "required crew only" in the ferry instructions.

Buying a first aircraft that doesn't meet airworthiness standards would likely be quite painful to the wallet and a bad way to ease into aircraft ownership. So I doubt you're searching for aircraft that aren't airworthy.

As others have stated, what you really need to know is the insurance requirements and price difference between flying your own aircraft as a student pilot and as a certificated private pilot, and whether the insurance company needs additional "time in type", and if that time needs to be as PIC or if any time in type qualifies.

Better keep the insurance broker's number handy. Those requirements will change between aircraft models and can even change by model year in some aircraft.

Make sure if you're not yet covered, at least the CFI is, if they have to act as PIC.
 
denverpilot said:
You can fly your airplane home with a CFI acting as PIC. No big deal, unless the aircraft is being moved under specific instructions on a Special Airworthiness Certificate, upon which the FAA is likely to say "required crew only" in the ferry instructions.

Buying a first aircraft that doesn't meet airworthiness standards would likely be quite painful to the wallet and a bad way to ease into aircraft ownership. So I doubt you're searching for aircraft that aren't airworthy.

As others have stated, what you really need to know is the insurance requirements and price difference between flying your own aircraft as a student pilot and as a certificated private pilot, and whether the insurance company needs additional "time in type", and if that time needs to be as PIC or if any time in type qualifies.

Better keep the insurance broker's number handy. Those requirements will change between aircraft models and can even change by model year in some aircraft.

Make sure if you're not yet covered, at least the CFI is, if they have to act as PIC.
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good idea,, talk to your insurance agent.
 
I've bought some planes close (<200 miles) and some far (>800 miles). Like GRG55 said, one factor that can determine how far you go is how popular a plane you're looking for. Another factor is how quickly you want to buy. If time is on your side, eventually you can usually find something locally. I would put your choice, a 172, in the "easy to find locally within 12 months" category for almost any level of condition and equipment, for most areas of the country.
 
denverpilot said:
You can fly your airplane home with a CFI acting as PIC. No big deal, unless the aircraft is being moved under specific instructions on a Special Airworthiness Certificate, upon which the FAA is likely to say "required crew only" in the ferry instructions.

Buying a first aircraft that doesn't meet airworthiness standards would likely be quite painful to the wallet and a bad way to ease into aircraft ownership. So I doubt you're searching for aircraft that aren't airworthy.

As others have stated, what you really need to know is the insurance requirements and price difference between flying your own aircraft as a student pilot and as a certificated private pilot, and whether the insurance company needs additional "time in type", and if that time needs to be as PIC or if any time in type qualifies.

Better keep the insurance broker's number handy. Those requirements will change between aircraft models and can even change by model year in some aircraft.

Make sure if you're not yet covered, at least the CFI is, if they have to act as PIC.
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yeah I checked with my insurance guy already, they have requirements for same make / model, but since I am training in 172 and looking for a 172, they don't care much. definitely not looking for a not airworthy one.
 
tawood said:
I've bought some planes close (<200 miles) and some far (>800 miles). Like GRG55 said, one factor that can determine how far you go is how popular a plane you're looking for. Another factor is how quickly you want to buy. If time is on your side, eventually you can usually find something locally. I would put your choice, a 172, in the "easy to find locally within 12 months" category for almost any level of condition and equipment, for most areas of the country.
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not in much hurry actually, usually I am lets-buy-this-sucker yesterday kinda guy, but not doing this time. if it takes 6 months - 8 months to find something.. so be it.
 
WannFly said:
yeah I checked with my insurance guy already, they have requirements for same make / model, but since I am training in 172 and looking for a 172, they don't care much. definitely not looking for a not airworthy one.
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Why not look at C170s, S108s, etc

Sorry gotta plug the tailwheel ;)
 
As a lot have said, you can do a lot of due diligence remotely with the assistance of some of the fine folks here, which I unfortunately didn't think of when I was buying. And don't forget there is another pilot on the selling side might be able to help. In my case, He was as interested in selling as I was serious about buying. So he agreed to fly it 2 hrs away to my shop of choice for a prebuy. In the end he made 2 trips and it all worked out. So don't write them off just because they're far.

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And yet, there are often good planes in the neighborhood, often unavertised. Owners often are on the cusps of selling and only need a nudge to start thinking about doing so.
 
I live in CA and purchased in Florida. Was well worth the round trip to check it out and one way commercial ticket to fly it back home. I found a I/A local to the plane that did all the inspections for me.

...and to the OP, if you do not have your PPL it would be worth EVERY penny to strike a deal with a CFI to do the XC home with you. Flying from FL to CA as a new pilot was by far the BEST thing I ever did to add to my flying experience and confidence.
 
Shawn said:
I live in CA and purchased in Florida. Was well worth the round trip to check it out and one way commercial ticket to fly it back home. I found a I/A local to the plane that did all the inspections for me.

...and to the OP, if you do not have your PPL it would be worth EVERY penny to strike a deal with a CFI to do the XC home with you. Flying from FL to CA as a new pilot was by far the BEST thing I ever did to add to my flying experience and confidence.
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Yah, I do not have PPL, so a long cross country would definitely open my world and that would something I would have already done before my solo cross country and I think I would be more comfortable ...

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WannFly said:
Yah, I do not have PPL, so a long cross country would definitely open my world and that would something I would have already done before my solo cross country and I think I would be more comfortable ...

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A long cross country is simply several short cross countries.
 
Both of the planes I bought were out of state and the deal was finalized before I saw them. In both cases I had very thorough pre-buys done so I knew I was buying the plane I wanted but in each case I turned over the funds the first time I saw the plane. The 172 was delivered to me from 600 miles away because I got it to get my license. I met up with a ferry pilot / instructor to bring my 177 RG home. That trip home went towards my mandatory 10-hours of transition training required by the insurance company and we finished up the next day.

To me the pre-buy is the key to avoid nasty surprises that first year of ownership

Gary
 
GaryV said:
Both of the planes I bought were out of state and the deal was finalized before I saw them. In both cases I had very thorough pre-buys done so I knew I was buying the plane I wanted but in each case I turned over the funds the first time I saw the plane. The 172 was delivered to me from 600 miles away because I got it to get my license. I met up with a ferry pilot / instructor to bring my 177 RG home. That trip home went towards my mandatory 10-hours of transition training required by the insurance company and we finished up the next day.

To me the pre-buy is the key to avoid nasty surprises that first year of ownership

Gary
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Thanks for sharing. Much appreciated.

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