Buying C-150 to train

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Paulsen

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Isaac
Hello this is my first post here. I'm currious what your thoughts are on buying a C-150 vs renting are? My thinking is not only will I have the resale/investment factor to get some money back eventually, but also an aircraft to vacation and teach other students in creating some revenue.

Thanks,Isaac
 
If you can buy the right plane for under $20k, it can serve you well. Try to find something with under 1000 SMOH and with dual nav/coms and a GS so you can do instrument training in it too. The ideal scenario is to buy something with 500 hours on the engine, sell it before it gets to 1000 so the buyer is still buying mid-time. A 150 is a great time-builder, cheap (relative) to fly and maintain and they will always have some resale value.

Consider this, the average private pilot student spends $4000+ on aircraft rental alone. If you spend $1000 on an annual, you're still $3000 ahead on the rentals. You also don't have to worry about scheduling the plane from the flight school.

Of course, if you have to borrow the money to buy the plane, you're out the interest on the loan, so it makes a lot more sense if you can pay cash for the plane.
 
Paulsen said:
... also an aircraft to vacation and teach other students in creating some revenue.
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C-150 isn't much of a cross-country machine. It can be done, especially if you're in no hurry to get anywhere, but most that want to fly themselves to destinations chose to do so in an airplane because it will get them there faster and more conveniently. C-150 doesn't fit that mission very well.

Teach other students? I'm not sure what ratings you hold now, but it's no small endeavor to go from student pilot to flight instructor. If you do wish to teach in it, things change quite a bit. That's a business, and there are a lot of extra things that come with that. It's not as simple having private ownership of an airplane and earning a CFI rating.
 
Paulsen said:
Hello this is my first post here. I'm currious what your thoughts are on buying a C-150 vs renting are? My thinking is not only will I have the resale/investment factor to get some money back eventually, but also an aircraft to vacation and teach other students in creating some revenue.
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I think it makes a lot of sense. Some friends did that last summer, spenindg about $15K for a well-used (alright...pretty tired old!) C-150. It's not a pretty bird, but it runs just fine and flies straight and true.

One owner has already completed her private in it. This morning I flew lessons three and four with the second gentleman...he works out of town, can only fly Saturdays, so we double up lessons. We flew two 1.2 hour training flights this morning with an hour of ground school in between. Second day of training in eight days and he made two landings all on his own....still a ways from solo but making great progress. We fueled up after the flight and put 7.4 gallons in it, for about $38. Pretty cheap!

A third partner plans to start his instrument training in it next month.

Even with student pilots insurance on it is less than $500 per year, if I recall correctly. It is pretty economical flying.

Keep in mind if you start renting it costs go up as you have the 100 hour maintenance and rental insurance rates which are higher.
 
Wow quick responce, thanks. I was thinking under the 500/smoh range full IFR GPS decent exterior /interior (resale reasons) which realistically brings me into the $20,000 and up range.

I however would be financing so there's kind of a major factor. Although even if I break even I do own an aircraft. It just seems at first glance this would be the wiser financial way to go.
 
bqmassey said:
C-150 isn't much of a cross-country machine. It can be done, especially if you're in no hurry to get anywhere, but most that want to fly themselves to destinations chose to do so in an airplane because it will get them there faster and more conveniently. C-150 doesn't fit that mission very well.

Teach other students? I'm not sure what ratings you hold now, but it's no small endeavor to go from student pilot to flight instructor. If you do wish to teach in it, things change quite a bit. That's a business, and there are a lot of extra things that come with that. It's not as simple having private ownership of an airplane and earning a CFI rating.
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First of all getting to the destination fast doesn't even factor to me its the flying. Second I hold no rating and am well aware that training up to CFI is no small task. Third I'm a business owner and understand what is involved there as well, but thanks anyway.
 
Thanks for the great story LDJones. It sounds like having a partner or two is also another excellent idea.
 
When you get the concept of losing a little on each transaction but making it up in volume, then you are on your way to having a handle on aviation as a business.
 
Paulsen said:
First of all getting to the destination fast doesn't even factor to me its the flying. Second I hold no rating and am well aware that training up to CFI is no small task. Third I'm a business owner and understand what is involved there as well, but thanks anyway.
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You won't get there fast, or with more than one passenger (perhaps any passengers if you've got full tanks and it's a high DA day), or with any kind of payload. A Cessna 150 isn't simply a two-seat 172. I love 150's, I just don't want you to have unrealistic expectations about what one can do for you.

Understand there will be days you can't fly it because the density altitude won't allow a safe climb out from a 5 or 6,000 ft field elevation. (Like if you're based out of Colorado Springs.) If it fits your mission, though, more power to ya.

As far as the business costs involved, I'm not talking about your normal operational costs of maintaining a business, I'm talking about the increase in maintenance costs (100hr inspections are then required) and the cost of CFI and rental insurance that you incur in additional to the cost of private ownership. To have competitive rates, you'll need some volume to offset those fixed costs. You could always try to work out a lease-back agreement with another school. That may be a good option for you if you don't mind your airplane taking some abuse.

But, as far as just buying it to learn in and then selling it, a lot of people have done that successfully.
 
That's probably what it would boil down to getting a few ratings realizing I either want more performance or just want to cash out and fly commercially. Sorry for jumping down your throat after all I did come here to get a professional opinion and not just the answer I wanted.
 
LDJones said:
...

Keep in mind if you start renting it costs go up as you have the 100 hour maintenance and rental insurance rates which are higher.
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Renting out a private aircraft does not require 100 hour inspections. If the aircraft is rented out for instruction, it does require a 100 hour inspection. If a private pilot wants to rent regularly and he meets the insurance open pilot requirements, you can add him to the policy and probably pay nothing extra.
 
Separate cross-country flights from St Louis Mo:
Oceanside CA
Key West
Death Valley
First Flight Kitty Hawk
Etc
Just don't be in a hurry.
 
I would go with a 172 if I was you and wanted Cessna. With your field elevation in Colorado I don't think you would ever be happy with a 150. I have a older 172 that I'm not quite ready to sell yet but has about same hours your looking for with decent avionics and I'm going to ask 25g so you can find a 172 in your price range. You would never regret your decision. Mine will burn Mogas so can be flown for 20 bucks for gas per hour. Cheap insurance and annuals. Pretty cheap flying. You will fly much more often with your own plane.
 
Theboys said:
I would go with a 172 if I was you and wanted Cessna. With your field elevation in Colorado I don't think you would ever be happy with a 150. I have a older 172 that I'm not quite ready to sell yet but has about same hours your looking for with decent avionics and I'm going to ask 25g so you can find a 172 in your price range. You would never regret your decision. Mine will burn Mogas so can be flown for 20 bucks for gas per hour. Cheap insurance and annuals. Pretty cheap flying. You will fly much more often with your own plane.
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+1

Cessna 150 in Colorado would be mistake. All the fixed costs of a 150/152 are virtually the same as a 172.

Annuals, transponder checks, static system checks (if applicable to your flying) tie down/hangar, and insurance will be nearly the same.

I loved my 1962 150B, but my field elevation was 1300 feet and I weighed 170# back then.
 
There are two 150s for sale at my home drome. Both fairly low time. One's an aerobat. Same owner. Lost his medical.
 
6,187' :hairraise:
Colorado Springs Airport, Elevation :hairraise:

You have got to be kidding about a C-150 there. A C-172 is still marginal. I flew a 172 out of Tahoe and it was a pain in the butt. Do a LOT more research and don't rely on forums for your input......read the performance specs and think about it long and hard.
 
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Witmo said:
Renting out a private aircraft does not require 100 hour inspections. If the aircraft is rented out for instruction, it does require a 100 hour inspection. If a private pilot wants to rent regularly and he meets the insurance open pilot requirements, you can add him to the policy and probably pay nothing extra.
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While technically correct, I believe his words were "to create some revenue", which to me speaks of a commercial operation which would then entail 100 hour inspections. You can certainly let anyone use your plane and share expenses however you wish and not incur that expense, but that wasn't what I heard him say.
 
While renting out your private plane is am option, who would rent a 150/152 in Colorado? :rofl:
 
aviatingfool said:
6,187' :hairraise:
Colorado Springs Airport, Elevation :hairraise:

You have got to be kidding about a C-150 there. A C-172 is still marginal. I flew a 172 out of Tahoe and it was a pain in the butt. Do a LOT more research and don't rely on forums for your input......read the performance specs and think about it long and hard.
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Live in the low land I see. Fliying a C-150 out of there is doable and possibly a GREAT experience. I know a CFI at KMVI who flies a C-140 out of there.. and it's over 1,000' HIGHER than Colorado Springs. 6,187' isn't marginal for a C-172 as long as you're not an idiot. Just gotta know the machine and conditions you're operating with.
 
bnt83 said:
While renting out your private plane is am option, who would rent a 150/152 in Colorado? :rofl:
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Plenty of folks. Probably not peopling looking to haul 1,000lbs for 400NM and maintain 1000'FPM climb to 12,000' but for boring holes in the sky, it works.
 
9 years ago I bought a $20k Cherokee with single nav/com/ils. I got my PPL in it and went on to get 500 hrs within the first 2 years.

Cherokee is a good plane to leave on tie down.
Insurance $485
Tie down free but I paid $120 for hanger most years I owned it
maintenance(total worked out to about $10 per flight over over the life of the airplane while I owned it).
I burned 8 gph avgas but soon as I got my ppl I started burning mogas and saved about half the cost of fuel.
I sold the plane for $16k so I only depreciated $4k while I owned it but I bought in a good market and sold in the worst market, also I kept it 9 years so it was very cheap as an annual percentage.

I have a few thoughts on doing it again. First, maybe I would have bought a basic complex like RG177 or Arrow rather than a fixed gear so I would have keep the plane even longer than 11 years. Second thought even if I did not go all the way with the RG maybe I should have bought a Cherokee 180hp to have more flexibility with my xcountry trips with 3 adults.

Even if you go commercial you can rent a complex for 10 hrs and get your sign off while building that 1000 hour magic number with the Cherokee. Then get your multi engine the same way. Also there is a possibility of getting the bulk of your hours in a few years in a Cherokee or Arrow and then trading that on a inexpensive multi like Apache and get 200 hrs in it.

I am sure your total costs would be a fraction of what you will pay going through schools and renting flight school planes to get the ratings and hours.
 
There's a 150G taildragger at my FBO I'm gonna take it for a spin and see how it goes. I've taken up there 172 and it was windy out that day but it handled great. This should tell a lot. And what better person to ask than someone who is using the 150 in my area to train student pilots.
 
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bartmc said:
Live in the low land I see. Fliying a C-150 out of there is doable and possibly a GREAT experience. I know a CFI at KMVI who flies a C-140 out of there.. and it's over 1,000' HIGHER than Colorado Springs. 6,187' isn't marginal for a C-172 as long as you're not an idiot. Just gotta know the machine and conditions you're operating with.
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Flew in Tahoe for 6 years and not an idiot. The last 150 I heard of that went up there in the summer augured in.....GREAT (last) experience for him...
I don't think I'd take lessons from a CFI that flies a marginal aircraft out of 7000'. Not all CFIs are safe, just look at the record of crashed planes with CFIs on board. Now, there is a 150 at our field that would do just fine up there, but it has an O-320 with over 160 HP.....:yesnod:
 
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bartmc said:
Plenty of folks. Probably not peopling looking to haul 1,000lbs for 400NM and maintain 1000'FPM climb to 12,000' but for boring holes in the sky, it works.
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Your missing the point. A Cessna 150/152 at 5,000 + elevation in Colorado will be a one person airplane for over 50% of the flying season. And the rental cost of the 150/152 wouldn't be cheap enough to offset the cost vs renting a 172 or Cherokee.

I don't see the logic.

150 taildraggers sure look neat but from what I've heard are squirlly.

Keep in mind Issac when you go fly a Cessna 150 it will perform ok with the current temperatures this time of year, but when it warms up and density altitudes climb to 7,800 feet on a 75 degree day, it's only going to have about 50 horsepower total on takeoff.
 
Unless you are going to keep flying the 150 forever, or become a CFI and use it to provide training in or have some other long term use for it, it's not that bright of an idea. Buy your last plane first and train in it. Long term it will be your safest and most cost effective method. So go ahead and buy the Bonanza now since it's way easier to fly and fly well than a 150.
 
Have you looked into storage fees in the springs? Hangar/Tie Downs? Those can easily run 10K a year for a hangar.
 
Buying an airplane to get your ratings in is CRAZY. Sure there are examples of people that bought a little gem and never had to spend a dime on it and then sold it for what they paid for it. However, there are many more out there that got burned.

First thing to keep in mind everyone else has had the same idea, so it becomes a game of trying not to be the one caught with a large repair bill.

Second, you have one aircraft, if it goes down you stop training. That is a giant PITA when you are focused on flying not aircraft management. How about an unexpected $20K motor job that takes 3 months to complete? Are you ready for that?

Third, I have never meet one pilot who didn't have some landings in training where they were SOOOOOO glad to hand the keys back to the FBO and walk away.
 
Alexb2000 said:
Third, I have never meet one pilot who didn't have some landings in training where they were SOOOOOO glad to hand the keys back to the FBO and walk away.
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Always a first, never happened to me. I learned to fly my own planes (Australian light sport and ultra lights) then did 40 hours in a spam can to get my PPL in 28 days. First time in the plane with an instructor, first touch and go I was on my own.

However, some of my landings when I first flew were "less than perfect" requiring only minor........, okay major repair. :redface: :lol:
 
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Geico266 said:
Always a first, never happened to me. I learned to fly my own planes (Australian light sport and ultra lights) then did 40 hours in a spam can to get my PPL in 28 days. First time in the plane with an instructor, first touch and go I was on my own.
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My favorite pilot saying, "There are two kinds of pilots those that have had bad landings and those that lie about it".
 
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