Buying and Bringing a plane from Canada to the USA

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chevy72402

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Chevy72402
My dad and I have decided to check out a plane in Canada and bring it back to the USA. Any advice or tips to make this easier and not get shot down. We are thinking that we can get our
Foreign Licence Validation Certificate (FLVC) and bring it back across ourselves. Are there brokers that can make this process easier? Thank you.
 
The process varies a bit depending on what you're looking at buying. I'd suggest getting a mechanic or shop involved that is familiar with the importation process at the beginning of the search rather than buying first, then getting someone involved and beginning to wish you hadn't ever bought it.

As a point of reference, two airplanes that I was somewhat involved with took around six months each to get through the process of having an airworthiness certificate issued. Another one I know of is nearing the 1 year mark and still not finished. This will not be an instant gratification deal, unlike a purchase made on an already N registered airplane.
 
I do this, and am involved in importing one now.
Things to know
insure you are buying the aircraft from the registered owner in Canada. Get the bill of sale signed in ink by them.
place the note "Foreign seller" below that block.
Sent the application for registration along with the Bill of sale plus the required fee. To the FAA at the address given at FAA.GOV
Place the words " IMPORT PRIORITY " in Red ink on the lower left corner of the envelop
If you have a N number reserved add a letter authorizing the use of it in the envelop too.
It is best to have a Canadian Ferry Pilot deliver the aircraft to your mechanics shop. (I've never done it your way)
Your mechanic must complete an annual and place the new US N number on the aircraft. and insure all ADs are complied with.
any modifications must be on a STC or have field approvals by the local FSDO.
the nice part is that Canada requires Service bulletins to be complied with. so most ADs will be done.

Your Canadian seller is required to notify Transport Canada to de-register the aircraft in Canada the FAA will not process the application for registration until they get that notification from Transport Canada. The seller must send Transport Canada their registration, a signed bill of sale (make two) have them sign both. one goes to Canada the other goes to the FAA.


And remember when the aircraft was manufactured in the US there is no duty coming back.
 
Tom-D said:
nope it is standard procedure by both countries.
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It is a standard process, but there are different ways you can get the paperwork to get it done, depending on the airplane's history (has it been in the us before?).
 
Mondster, It was manufactured in the US. It is a 182RG.
 
The problems come when modifications that don't comply have been done on the airplane. If every mod is acceptable in USA and there is proper paperwork then it will be ok. It will need a new N number and that is an expense you can find out now.
 
mondtster said:
It is a standard process, but there are different ways you can get the paperwork to get it done, depending on the airplane's history (has it been in the us before?).
Click to expand...
Fill out the paper wrong they simply send it back snail mail. then goes to the bottom of the stack again.
 
coloradobluesky said:
The problems come when modifications that don't comply have been done on the airplane. If every mod is acceptable in USA and there is proper paperwork then it will be ok. It will need a new N number and that is an expense you can find out now.
Click to expand...
That doesn't happen very much. Canada is more strict than the FAA on Modifications. You will find there is a separate maintenance record for the engine, prop, and airframe, but all in one book.
 
My Cessna was imported and exported back to the states from Canada, seeing all the conformity stuff, this was a decent sized selling point for me, logs can be made to spec, but those import dudes don't mess around and appear to have some high standards for paperwork.
 
I thought I had heard something about making sure they didn't ever do that "certified - Owner Maintenance" thing on the plane you wan to bring in from CA, as that could make it very difficult to get back into the US. Is that correct?
 
ChemGuy said:
I thought I had heard something about making sure they didn't ever do that "certified - Owner Maintenance" thing on the plane you wan to bring in from CA, as that could make it very difficult to get back into the US. Is that correct?
Click to expand...
If they have been in the owner maintained category in Canada they can not be imported to the US.
 
Tom-D said:
the nice part is that Canada requires Service bulletins to be complied with. so most ADs will be done.
Click to expand...

Service bulletins are NOT mandatory in Canada. ADs, of course, are, but that's no guarantee that any particular airplane will have them all addressed.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Service bulletins are NOT mandatory in Canada. ADs, of course, are, but that's no guarantee that any particular airplane will have them all addressed.
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My Transport Canada guy says mandatory SBs are required to be complied with. because they have no ADs
got proof other wise ?
 
Tom-D said:
My Transport Canada guy says mandatory SBs are required to be complied with. because they have no ADs
got proof other wise ?
Click to expand...

Here's the requirement:

Division III — Aircraft Maintenance Requirements
Aircraft Maintenance — General
  • 605.84 (1) Subject to subsections (3) and (4), no person shall conduct a take-off or permit a take-off to be conducted in an aircraft that is in the legal custody and control of the person, other than an aircraft operated under a special certificate of airworthiness in the owner-maintenance or amateur-built classification, unless the aircraft
    • (a) is maintained in accordance with any airworthiness limitations applicable to the aircraft type design;
    • (b) meets the requirements of any airworthiness directive issued under section 521.427; and
    • (c) except as provided in subsection (2), meets the requirements of any notices that are equivalent to airworthiness directives and that are issued by
      • (i) the competent authority of the foreign state that, at the time the notice was issued, is responsible for the type certification of the aircraft, engine, propeller or appliance, or
      • (ii) for an aeronautical product in respect of which no type certificate has been issued, the competent authority of the foreign state that manufactured the aeronautical product.
Note the absence of any mention of Service Bulletins.

An equivalent to an airworthiness directive is not an SB. Other countries might call ADs something else, but they're still not SBs. If SBs were mandatory in Canada, most of us mechanics and Directors of Maintenance would be in jail.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Here's the requirement:

Division III — Aircraft Maintenance Requirements
Aircraft Maintenance — General
  • 605.84 (1) Subject to subsections (3) and (4), no person shall conduct a take-off or permit a take-off to be conducted in an aircraft that is in the legal custody and control of the person, other than an aircraft operated under a special certificate of airworthiness in the owner-maintenance or amateur-built classification, unless the aircraft
    • (a) is maintained in accordance with any airworthiness limitations applicable to the aircraft type design;
    • (b) meets the requirements of any airworthiness directive issued under section 521.427; and
    • (c) except as provided in subsection (2), meets the requirements of any notices that are equivalent to airworthiness directives and that are issued by
      • (i) the competent authority of the foreign state that, at the time the notice was issued, is responsible for the type certification of the aircraft, engine, propeller or appliance, or
      • (ii) for an aeronautical product in respect of which no type certificate has been issued, the competent authority of the foreign state that manufactured the aeronautical product.
Note the absence of any mention of Service Bulletins.

An equivalent to an airworthiness directive is not an SB. Other countries might call ADs something else, but they're still not SBs. If SBs were mandatory in Canada, most of us mechanics and Directors of Maintenance would be in jail.
Click to expand...

Yes I just looked it up my self SB are in BO55 issued 4 July 2000
And AD s are now at Division X 521.426
Change occurred July 2000.

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/standards/maintenance-aarpc-ans-b055-2632.htm
QUOTE
Although a single publication may in practice deal with more than one topic, in this notice each group will be dealt with separately:

  1. Publications specifying methods and practices for the performance of work

    Publications under this heading may be considered as amendments to the instructions for continued airworthiness (ICA). As such, pursuant to Canadian Aviation Regulation (CAR) 571.02, they constitute one of three acceptable sources for such data (the other two are equivalent methods and standard industry practice).
 
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So,, their AD requirements should match ours. they get the same info we do.
 
I am being told that if it has a current annual in Canada, it will not require a separate annual in the US, because the DAR will not sign off unless it complies and is airworthy. Perhaps this has changed since 2016. I am also not sure it can just be flown to any mechanic's shop. Can someone please clarify? Thank you.

Tom-D said:
I do this, and am involved in importing one now.
Things to know
insure you are buying the aircraft from the registered owner in Canada. Get the bill of sale signed in ink by them.
place the note "Foreign seller" below that block.
Sent the application for registration along with the Bill of sale plus the required fee. To the FAA at the address given at FAA.GOV
Place the words " IMPORT PRIORITY " in Red ink on the lower left corner of the envelop
If you have a N number reserved add a letter authorizing the use of it in the envelop too.
It is best to have a Canadian Ferry Pilot deliver the aircraft to your mechanics shop. (I've never done it your way)
Your mechanic must complete an annual and place the new US N number on the aircraft. and insure all ADs are complied with.
any modifications must be on a STC or have field approvals by the local FSDO.
the nice part is that Canada requires Service bulletins to be complied with. so most ADs will be done.

Your Canadian seller is required to notify Transport Canada to de-register the aircraft in Canada the FAA will not process the application for registration until they get that notification from Transport Canada. The seller must send Transport Canada their registration, a signed bill of sale (make two) have them sign both. one goes to Canada the other goes to the FAA.


And remember when the aircraft was manufactured in the US there is no duty coming back.
Click to expand...
 
Atypicalguy said:
I am being told that if it has a current annual in Canada, it will not require a separate annual in the US, because the DAR will not sign off unless it complies and is airworthy.
Click to expand...
FYI: no changes. But how the DAR determines airworthiness can depend on various factors like was the aircraft previously certified in thed US or it comes with an Export Cof A. So its basically up to the DAR whether the imported aircraft requires a new FAA annual inspection.
Atypicalguy said:
I am also not sure it can just be flown to any mechanic's shop.
Click to expand...
Flown to a mechanic shop in the US? If so, yes it can be flown to a US based mechanic shop but under what authority would depend on who was handling the paperwork for the flight.
 
Atypicalguy said:
I am being told that if it has a current annual in Canada, it will not require a separate annual in the US, because the DAR will not sign off unless it complies and is airworthy. Perhaps this has changed since 2016.
Click to expand...

I think the issue is that to be airworthy an aircraft must have been inspected within the last year by an FAA certified mechanic with Inspection Authority (assuming you are dealing with a certified not experimental). I know for the Experimental aircraft I just imported the DAR says I need a current condition inspection from an FAA certificated mechanic for him to issue a Special Airworthiness Certificate.

Atypicalguy said:
I am also not sure it can just be flown to any mechanic's shop. Can someone please clarify? Thank you.
Click to expand...

While the aircraft is still registered with Transport Canada with a C- number, it can be flow across the border (following all border crossing procedures for both pilot and airplane) and all around the USA by anyone recognized by Transport Canada as a certificated pilot for that airplane. For my Experimental import, I did a licence validation with Transport Canada of my FAA certificates for "ferry and recreational flying" good for 90 days, all via email (thanks COVID!). So, I travelled to Canada, brought the plane back, made a couple flights so my wife / CFO could wring the plane out a bit, then parked it for the condition inspection. I FedEx'd the Canadian registration back to the seller so he could send it in to Transport Canada for de-registration. I contracted with an escrow company in Oklahoma City to track / expedite the process with the FAA at the recommendation of my DAR, we'll see if that $200 bill pays dividends. Also, consider insurance coverage, if that is important. My policy on my old plane covers newly bought aircraft, and I confirmed with them that included aircraft with a Transport Canada registration.
 
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catmandu said:
I think the issue is that to be airworthy an aircraft must have been inspected within the last year by an FAA certified mechanic with Inspection Authority
Click to expand...
FYI: the only stated requirement to issue/reissue a US airworthiness certificate is that the aircraft conforms to its type certificate and is safe for flight. There is no requirement for an annual inspection per se. It falls to the DAR or ASI whether additional inspections are required. For example, in some cases if an aircraft is issued an Export certificate of Airworthiness by the exporting CAA the US DAR can accept that declaration and not require a separate annual inspection by an APIA. Or not. It's up to the DAR.
 
Bell206 said:
FYI: the only stated requirement to issue/reissue a US airworthiness certificate is that the aircraft conforms to its type certificate and is safe for flight. There is no requirement for an annual inspection per se. It falls to the DAR or ASI whether additional inspections are required. For example, in some cases if an aircraft is issued an Export certificate of Airworthiness by the exporting CAA the US DAR can accept that declaration and not require a separate annual inspection by an APIA. Or not. It's up to the DAR.
Click to expand...

Gray areas! Fifty shades of them to boot.

My plane had no Export certificate, and my DAR asks for a condition inspection. Easy enough and cheap enough as it is owner assisted, but consider me educated, thanks.
 
catmandu said:
Gray areas! Fifty shades of them to boot.
Click to expand...
catmandu said:
My plane had no Export certificate, and my DAR asks for a condition inspection.
Click to expand...
Ha. No gray area as it's pretty much spelled out in black and white in the FARs and Orders. With TC'd aircraft there are stated options which the DAR can use to determine airworthiness. But with E/AB aircraft, given there is no official conformity documents to use, the only option is a condition inspection which the DAR is not permitted to perform. Plus technically, when an E/AB is imported it starts at square one in the airworthiness certification process as E/AB aircraft are not included in reciprocal/bilateral agreements.
 
I imported my Bonanza from Canada a few years ago. After some basic negotiating, the prior owner was kind enough to ferry it to a US airport (Bangor) where I had it inspected and we closed the deal. We used an escrow agent that’s done plenty of imports - they handled all the FAA paperwork. US Customs was slow - ended up hiring an “expediter” to help with that part…mostly, these are US manufactured aircraft being repatriated, so no import duty.

In Bangor, we had a US annual, and the shop that did it helped with the DAR. They also did a temporary N-number decal…my shop back home did the permanent painted-on numbers over the Canadian C-number.

My insurance company wanted me to have some CFI time, so the last piece of the puzzle was talking a CFI friend into flying up to Bangor…the trip home was my check-out.

One part that I hadn’t planned on was the ELT, of all things…we had issues getting the Canadian-coded unit reprogrammed - in the end, I just replaced it with a new unit.

I learned a lot about aspects of aircraft ownership I’d never given a second thought to. Still, it was generally a good experience, and after a few weeks of spending money and doing paperwork, I got my personal forever airplane. No regrets…
 
I have been looking at a Cessna 150 in Canada, and from what I have determined so far is that if the Cessna was manufactured in the U S, that would make the transfer and physical movement a lot easier! I need help in putting a sale together!
 
Does it have an N number or Canadian registration?
 
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