Buying a new/used truck

[Maxmosbey]

I have a 2005 Dodge Dakota crew cab pickup with 71,000 miles on it. I don't necessarily love that truck, but it is OK. The only trouble I ever had with it was when the transmission went out on it, but is was still under warranty, and they fixed it under the warranty. It still runs fine. OK, I figure that the Dakota still has some value, besides, I would like a V-8, so I have been thinking lately of trading it in. Yesterday I went down to the local Chevy dealer to look at a used V-8 Dakota, and ended up driving a new Silverado. The sticker in the window says $38,480. The salesman however says that I can get $5000 off because is it is Chevy truck month, plus another $1000 off if I finance part of it through some finance company that he threw out there. So I drove it around a little, I like it, so then I said to the salesman, "well, what is my Dakota worth." So he says, "a bunch." So I asked him, " So what is the bottom line." He answers me, "I just need to know if you are interested in in the Silverado if we can come together on the price." Then he says, "if you think that you are really interested, I'll get someone to take your truck out and see what we can give you on it." I was in a bit of a hurry, so I told him that I was going home to think about it. That was about five thirty. So at eight thirty he calls me up and says that another dealer wants that truck, but the boss says that if I am interested they will hang onto it.

Thanks for bearing with me to this point. I woke up this morning a little miffed. How am I supposed to know whether I am interested or not, when they don't even know how much they want for their truck? I know that $38,480 is not the price of the truck. It is just a number they threw up there. I know as well what the "blue book", "black book", and Edmunds says my truck is worth on trade in, but I also know that they are going to give me a heck of a deal on it, they are going to give me a "deal" on everything.

Here is the thing, if he calls me this morning I'm going to tell him to go ahead and sell it to the other dealer if that is what they want to do. He has at least thirty other trucks in the lot, and I'll bet Bob Brown, twenty miles down the road, has a hundred and thirty trucks on their lot. As I don't buy a new vehicle every year, how the heck do you deal on these things? I just don't feel like dickering. I'm not going to play around with these guys, I don't want the truck that bad. I'm to the point where either they want to sell me a truck, or they don't. I'll drive the Dakota.

 

[CJones]

Bah.. Tell him to give it to someone else and/or go to another dealer - it sounds like a cheesy sales tactic. I say tell him to give it away, then drive by next week and see if it's gone. If not, start looking for another dealer.

I've heard good things about the Ankeny dealers. Karl usually runs some pretty good deals such as 'tires for life', etc.

Since you're in the Dodge world already, have you looked at their full-sized trucks? If I ever get rid of my Jeep, I'll probably end up with a Ram. I have a friend in Grimes that has an 06 Ram 2500 with Cummins diesel - he said he was getting better than 25mpg when he stopped here on his way to Orlando couple of weeks ago. He has a programmable chip in it, but that's about all the mods he has made to it.

 

[Maxmosbey]

Bah.. Tell him to give it to someone else and/or go to another dealer - it sounds like a cheesy sales tactic. I say tell him to give it away, then drive by next week and see if it's gone. If not, start looking for another dealer.

I've heard good things about the Ankeny dealers. Karl usually runs some pretty good deals such as 'tires for life', etc.

Since you're in the Dodge world already, have you looked at their full-sized trucks? If I ever get rid of my Jeep, I'll probably end up with a Ram. I have a friend in Grimes that has an 06 Ram 2500 with Cummins diesel - he said he was getting better than 25mpg when he stopped here on his way to Orlando couple of weeks ago. He has a programmable chip in it, but that's about all the mods he has made to it.

I was thinking of driving over to Boone to see what they have. Where I live in West Ames, it is almost easier to drive to Boone, than it is to George White.

 

[wabower]

The problem with car guys is that they think everyone else is stupid and will fall for these obviously-stupid tricks. Based on the results, they are evidently right more than they are wrong.

I have a 2005 Dodge Dakota crew cab pickup with 71,000 miles on it. I don't necessarily love that truck, but it is OK. The only trouble I ever had with it was when the transmission went out on it, but is was still under warranty, and they fixed it under the warranty. It still runs fine. OK, I figure that the Dakota still has some value, besides, I would like a V-8, so I have been thinking lately of trading it in. Yesterday I went down to the local Chevy dealer to look at a used V-8 Dakota, and ended up driving a new Silverado. The sticker in the window says $38,480. The salesman however says that I can get $5000 off because is it is Chevy truck month, plus another $1000 off if I finance part of it through some finance company that he threw out there. So I drove it around a little, I like it, so then I said to the salesman, "well, what is my Dakota worth." So he says, "a bunch." So I asked him, " So what is the bottom line." He answers me, "I just need to know if you are interested in in the Silverado if we can come together on the price." Then he says, "if you think that you are really interested, I'll get someone to take your truck out and see what we can give you on it." I was in a bit of a hurry, so I told him that I was going home to think about it. That was about five thirty. So at eight thirty he calls me up and says that another dealer wants that truck, but the boss says that if I am interested they will hang onto it.

Thanks for bearing with me to this point. I woke up this morning a little miffed. How am I supposed to know whether I am interested or not, when they don't even know how much they want for their truck? I know that $38,480 is not the price of the truck. It is just a number they threw up there. I know as well what the "blue book", "black book", and Edmunds says my truck is worth on trade in, but I also know that they are going to give me a heck of a deal on it, they are going to give me a "deal" on everything.

Here is the thing, if he calls me this morning I'm going to tell him to go ahead and sell it to the other dealer if that is what they want to do. He has at least thirty other trucks in the lot, and I'll bet Bob Brown, twenty miles down the road, has a hundred and thirty trucks on their lot. As I don't buy a new vehicle every year, how the heck do you deal on these things? I just don't feel like dickering. I'm not going to play around with these guys, I don't want the truck that bad. I'm to the point where either they want to sell me a truck, or they don't. I'll drive the Dakota.

 

[CJones]

I was thinking of driving over to Boone to see what they have. Where I live in West Ames, it is almost easier to drive to Boone, than it is to George White.

Just say NO to the Boone dealer (can't remember his name off the top of my head). I have heard horror stories about him from several unrelated sources. Most of the complaints revolve around service after the sale - they give you a good deal on the front end, but if you ever need work done, it's darn near impossible to get it done on their dime. I have heard good things about the Ford dealer there, though (Moffit, I think) - the guys I used to work with would take their GM vehicles to the Ford dealer for service.

The "we're going to give it away unless you take it now" tactic sounds about right for what I have heard about George White as well. Again - no personal experience with them, just first-hand accounts from several sources.

I had a good experience with Honda of Ames (Lithia Motors now, I think) when we bought my wife's Passat off their used lot - but I had a personal connection with the salesman so that probably eased the pain a bit.

In the 10 years that I lived in the Ames/Boone area, everyone I worked with would go to Ankeny for vehicle (trucks in particular) purchases.

 

[EdFred]

Be the agressor in the deal. Don't let them dictate the condition of how the sales process goes. Decide what you are going to spend out of pocket, and start 10% lower than that.

 

[Maxmosbey]

Just say NO to the Boone dealer (can't remember his name off the top of my head). I have heard horror stories about him from several unrelated sources. Most of the complaints revolve around service after the sale - they give you a good deal on the front end, but if you ever need work done, it's darn near impossible to get it done on their dime. I have heard good things about the Ford dealer there, though (Moffit, I think) - the guys I used to work with would take their GM vehicles to the Ford dealer for service.

The "we're going to give it away unless you take it now" tactic sounds about right for what I have heard about George White as well. Again - no personal experience with them, just first-hand accounts from several sources.

I had a good experience with Honda of Ames (Lithia Motors now, I think) when we bought my wife's Passat off their used lot - but I had a personal connection with the salesman so that probably eased the pain a bit.

In the 10 years that I lived in the Ames/Boone area, everyone I worked with would go to Ankeny for vehicle (trucks in particular) purchases.

I thought about Lithia as well. I kind of wanted to buy American, but my father-in-law loves his Honda. I don't know. I wasn't even in the market for something until yesterday. Now I have the itch. I would buy another Dakota, but the V-6 is notorious for their transmissions, and the V-8 us rated as the worst mileage on the market. I like the size of the Dakota. It isn't as small as a Ranger or a Colorado, but it isn't as huge as the big boys are. My Dakota still has some years left.

 

[Tom-D]

I owned a V-8 Dakota, they are a POS truck..

I have 150k on my RAM 2500 diesel, it still gives me 17-19 MPG and will pull anything I hook to it.

I seldom need to pull any thing heavy anymore, so have been thinking about trading down for a CJ to tow behind the M/H and pull my utility trailer.

Are you interested in a good used Dodge RAM 2500 with 150K showing? at $10K

 

[Maxmosbey]

I owned a V-8 Dakota, they are a POS truck..

I have 150k on my RAM 2500 diesel, it still gives me 17-19 MPG and will pull anything I hook to it.

I seldom need to pull any thing heavy anymore, so have been thinking about trading down for a CJ to tow behind the M/H and pull my utility trailer.

Are you interested in a good used Dodge RAM 2500 with 150K showing? at $10K

Thanks for the offer, and the opinion about the V-8 Dakota. I've been happy with the V-6, except when the transmission went out. I would have really been mad if it had gone out after the warranty expired. I have a small travel trailer that I pull. It weighs in at 3200 lbs, fully loaded and ready to go on vacation. I just got through pulling it 3600 miles over three mountain passes both directions, with no complaints. I have heard nothing good about the V-8 Dakota, except it has a stronger transmission than the V-6. A lot of people like the Rams. They are just too big for me. If I was going to pull something big, I think I would go that route, but it is a little over kill to pull a 38 year old 14' camper with a diesel Ram.

 

[tonycondon]

Yea but as a glider friend says "Nothing exceeds like excess"

 

[Jay Honeck]

As much as I'd like to say "Buy American!", $30K+ is a bit much to risk on patriotic sentiment.

I've got a 15-year old Toyota T100 with 195K miles on it. The body is finally starting to rust, and the 4WD quit working a while back (I'm contemplating fixing it), but the engine just keeps purring along.

I beat the crap out of this truck (we use it to haul building materials), but it just keeps going, and going, and going. I paid $2500 for it four years ago. I can't recommend Toyota trucks highly enough, and when this one dies I'll be looking for a used Tundra to replace it.

 

[taters]

Be the agressor in the deal. Don't let them dictate the condition of how the sales process goes. Decide what you are going to spend out of pocket, and start 10% lower than that.

Walk in with a check filled out for what you will pay ...then "make them" take it.

 

[tonycondon]

many toyotas, including the Tundra pickup and some of the Tacomas, are built in the US anyway.

 

[CJones]

many toyotas, including the Tundra pickup and some of the Tacomas, are built in the US anyway.

Toyota Tundras are made in San Antonio, I believe...

Honda trucks are made in Alabama...

Kia SUV's are made in Georgia...

By 'made', I mean 'assembled', so Toyota/Honda are as much 'American made' as the big 3 these days.

 

[Maxmosbey]

many toyotas, including the Tundra pickup and some of the Tacomas, are built in the US anyway.

You are right, they are. I knew that, but I guess that I wasn't thinking on those lines.

 

[pilot117]

I own a 2006 Tacoma 4dr 4wd. I got a decent deal on it from a repo lot so I thought I would give it a try. I really wanted a full size truck but every first hand account and internet survey I read claimed 20mpg so I figured the increased fuel mileage was good enough to sacrifice the space of the full size. In short, my opinion is the Toyota is over rated. It's not a bad truck at all, it's just not the end all, be all that every Toyota owner makes them out to be. Oh, and the truth is the fuel mileage averages about 16.5mpg.

3200lbs is a lot of weight to pull for any V6. Sure they'll do it, but it's awful hard work and many of them don't have adequate transmission cooling to keep them from burning up from all of the shifting they do while pulling. After the trip you just took, I think getting rid of that Dakota before you have to pay for another transmission is a good idea.

 

[tonycondon]

the transmission shouldn't be doing a lot of shifting when pulling, unless you're going up and down big hills or are trying to drive too fast.

 

[jesse]

Toyota Tundras are made in San Antonio, I believe...

Honda trucks are made in Alabama...

Kia SUV's are made in Georgia...

By 'made', I mean 'assembled', so Toyota/Honda are as much 'American made' as the big 3 these days.

It's so hard to figure this stuff out now. I care more about assembled. I want to know where the project managers are, where the engineers are, where the executives are, etc. There are very few, almost no, larger companies with the entire process in the U.S.

As to the OP - just say you're "really interested" and have them give you the numbers. Then tell them you're not so interested anymore and leave. They've put work into the sale at this point and will be willing to drop to get a close. I think the guy was just trying to measure if you had any interest what-so-ever before he invested more time. Stupid on his part but car salesmen aren't exactly geniuses.

 

[nddons]

My vehicle shopping strategy is pretty straight forward.

1. Go to Edmunds and figure out the dealer cost for the exact vehicle.

2. Go to Edmunds and figure out the trade-in value of your trade-in vehicle. Be fair about the condition of the vehicle. If available, take the trade-in to Carmax. They will give you a price that is good for a week or so.

3. Subtract #2 from #1. Add (pick a number for profit i.e. $250; never more than $500) anywhere from zero to $500 to the number.

4. Add sales tax and any other mandatory tax or tag fee to the figure in #3.

5. Decision point: Are you willing to pay the figure in #4 for the vehicle?

5. If answer is "yes", then the price in #3 is your ceiling.

6. If salesman gives you a price at or below #3, buy it. Otherwise, walk.

7. Ensure no other "marketing fees" or other BS costs get added at checkout. If they do, then walk.

Any salesman's claim that they can take $5,000 off the meaningless sticker price is proof of this salesman's ignorance. Walk away. A good salesman understands the strategy above, and will never mention the sticker price.

Good luck.

 

[Lawreston]

I just traded two vehicles for a Ford F150 STX 4x4 with crew cab. The Chevy S-10 2-whl. drive was frequently non-conducive to getting up my hill on the worst winter days. The 2000 Buick Park Avenue still had a lot of miles left in it but it and the Austin Healey always go into winter storage 2 days before the first snow storm, not coming out until early May. The Ford(V8) is tantamount to driving a bus when comparing the S-10 or the A-H. The crew cab, when seats are folded back, allows plenty of space to transport photography and greeting card products to/from craft shows, should I get caught in rain or snow, card tables and floor displays in the body(which will soon have a roll-up tonneau cover). Bad winter days prove to be more menacing than what shows in the first photo.

The incline passing my driveway end is substantial. On a day such as in #3 I, having momentum, go to the top of the hill, do a 180° around the big tree, and ease back down and into my driveway. But -- it's coming - - - - - and so is Sugarloaf USA, Saddleback Mountain, Sunday River, Shawnee Peak season.

HR

 

[EdFred]

Walk in with a check filled out for what you will pay ...then "make them" take it.

That's what I did on my last new vehicle purchase.
And my plane.

 

[Missa]

Toyota Tundras are made in San Antonio, I believe...

Honda trucks are made in Alabama...

Kia SUV's are made in Georgia...

By 'made', I mean 'assembled', so Toyota/Honda are as much 'American made' as the big 3 these days.

The above is true only if care more about where the assembly line jobs are and could care less about the professional jobs and where the profits end up.

As an engineer prefer to know there are engineering jobs in Dearborn, MI USA that I’m supporting every time I buy a Ford, in Warren, MI USA when I buy a GM and in Auburn Hills, MI USA when I buy a Chrysler.

 

[mikea]

The problem with car guys is that they think everyone else is stupid and will fall for these obviously-stupid tricks. Based on the results, they are evidently right more than they are wrong.

You are right to be miffed. You are especailly right to be mad enough to not go back. IT"S HIS JOB TO SELL CARS. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DO ANYTHING TO MAKE HIM HAPPY, including proving you are serious. That's up to him.

The salesman wants to play the four squares con on you until you're so thoroughly confused he walks away with your "$1000 savings" and more in his pocket.
http://consumerist.com/2007/03/deal...ith-the-four-square-heres-how-to-beat-it.html


#1 YOU DO NOT WANT FINANCING from the dealer.. Got to your credit union and arrange the loan first and them pay cash for the deal. Find locla bank or credit union: http://moveyourmoney.info

You also should leave trading in your old truck out of the deal. Sell it yourself if you come up with enough cash to put 20% down.

 

[mikea]

The problem with car guys is that they think everyone else is stupid and will fall for these obviously-stupid tricks. Based on the results, they are evidently right more than they are wrong.

You are right to be miffed. You are especially right to be mad enough to not go back. IT"S HIS JOB TO SELL CARS. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DO ANYTHING TO MAKE HIM HAPPY, including proving you are serious. That's up to him.

"I need to know if you'll buy the car."

"I need to know if you know how to sell the car." (so far you lose. See ya!)

The salesman wants to play the four squares con on you until you're so thoroughly confused he walks away with your "$1000 savings" and more in his pocket.
http://consumerist.com/2007/03/deal...ith-the-four-square-heres-how-to-beat-it.html


#1 YOU DO NOT WANT FINANCING from the dealer.. Got to your credit union and arrange the loan first and them pay cash for the deal. Find local bank or credit union: http://moveyourmoney.info

You also should leave trading in your old truck out of the deal. Sell it yourself if you come up with enough cash to put 20% down.

 

[Maxmosbey]

3200lbs is a lot of weight to pull for any V6. Sure they'll do it, but it's awful hard work and many of them don't have adequate transmission cooling to keep them from burning up from all of the shifting they do while pulling. After the trip you just took, I think getting rid of that Dakota before you have to pay for another transmission is a good idea.

You know, I had a few people tell me that, but the numbers said that it would. I asked the dealer, and he said to check the numbers. My truck is rated to pull 4300 lbs. I also talked to the company who installed the hitch and the brake controller and they said no problem. They suggested a transmission cooler, and I installed one. So I pulled it out there, and I pulled it back. I am not worried about it. The engine did not run that hard, the transmission did not hunt much for gears, and I held a steady sixty-five most of the way. I don't think it even worked up a sweat, and I was sitting behind the wheel the whole way.

 

[EdFred]

In the past I've gotten a better rate from the dealer than I did from my local money supplier. Last one I just wrote a check for though.

 

[steingar]

Probably a really good time to buy. There's been a bit of a depression in the market, since a lot of people bought cars prematurely with stimulus money.

 

[Everskyward]

In the past I've gotten a better rate from the dealer than I did from my local money supplier. Last one I just wrote a check for though.

The last vehicle I got 0% financing. I asked if the price would be any less if I paid cash. They said no, so I went with the financing.

 

[JCarraway]

I've had good luck with the Lithia stores... Think there's a Honda and Nissan in Ames, and there's a bunch of them out in Des Moines. If you're looking for a truck my suggestion is to head down the Nissan in Ames. They've got some good trucks.

 

[Maxmosbey]

The Chevy guy called this morning and gave me the same story. I told him to do whatever he wanted with it, I don't care. So it was a short conversation.

I went to Lithia this afternoon and checked out the four or five trucks they had there. No one came out to give me a tour, so I checked the sticker prices and moved on. Nice looking trucks. Another POA member suggested Ford to me, so I moved on to Ford. I checked out an F-150 that I kind of like. The salesman came out and went over the high points with me. He asked me what I was looking for. I told him that I was looking to trade the Dakota before I got into a situation where I had to buy something else. I told him that I wasn't in a big hurry though. He said no big deal, he wasn't in a big hurry either, so take my time, I told him that I wanted to check some things out, and I might get back with him Monday for a test drive. He said that he would make sure that there was gas in it on Monday.He seemed much less hyped than the Chevy salesman. Much better experience.

 

[Jay Honeck]

I own a 2006 Tacoma 4dr 4wd. I got a decent deal on it from a repo lot so I thought I would give it a try. I really wanted a full size truck but every first hand account and internet survey I read claimed 20mpg so I figured the increased fuel mileage was good enough to sacrifice the space of the full size. In short, my opinion is the Toyota is over rated. It's not a bad truck at all, it's just not the end all, be all that every Toyota owner makes them out to be. Oh, and the truth is the fuel mileage averages about 16.5mpg.

3200lbs is a lot of weight to pull for any V6. Sure they'll do it, but it's awful hard work and many of them don't have adequate transmission cooling to keep them from burning up from all of the shifting they do while pulling. After the trip you just took, I think getting rid of that Dakota before you have to pay for another transmission is a good idea.

From what I've read, the Tacoma is not a great truck. The Tundra, however, is.

I wish they still made the T100, which was a half-step between the Tacoma and the Tundra, but apparently American buyers wanted a bigger truck.

 

[zaitcev]

From what I've read, the Tacoma is not a great truck. The Tundra, however, is.

I wish they still made the T100, which was a half-step between the Tacoma and the Tundra, but apparently American buyers wanted a bigger truck.

The worst is, Toyota has the platform and sells it all over the world. It's called "Hi-Lux". I saw them at work in Australia. Toyota even sell it in America in the guise of FJ and the "new" 4Runner. But they do not want to retool the San Antonio plant and they do not want to import and pay 25% tax. Maddening. I swear I'll buy F-150 next just to spite them.
-- Pete

 

[brcase]

The last vehicle I got 0% financing. I asked if the price would be any less if I paid cash. They said no, so I went with the financing.

They make it up one way or the other, I bet if you had gotten them down to their best cash price for it and then asked for 0% financing, you would not have quailified for it for some reason.

Brian

 

[colohan]

Last time I bought a car (a Prius, back when the California Prius market was crazy) here's what I did:

a) looked up the dealer cost on consumerreports.com

b) used that to compute what I thought was a reasonable price, including all taxes and fees, giving the dealer a 5% profit margin.

c) looked up every Toyota dealer within a 120 mile radius on toyota.com

d) sent them an email, saying "I'm looking for a silver, red, or blue Prius, package 5, and I'm willing to pay $X cash, today. Call me if you want to sell to me at that price."

e) waited for responses.

I got a huge number of calls. Multiple dealers told me my offer of $X was crazy low given the heated market, and tried to haggle me upwards. They gave up when I didn't budge. I had one salesperson swear at me for my lowball email. Not sure what they thought that would accomplish.

Then I got one dealer (out of about 30 or so) who called me up and said "I have a silver one coming in tomorrow. You want it?" I closed the deal over the phone in less than 10 minutes, and picked up my car the next day, with zero hassle.

Far far better than playing the stupid games that dealers play when they get you on the lot. Given that I had at least 20 dealers turn down my offer as too low, I'm pretty sure I got a reasonable price too.

Chris

 

[alaskaflyer]

+1

Dealers solicit bids on your trade in from other dealers to move it off the lot while you are still making up your mind on the deal. Turnabout is fair play - I do the same thing to them. I'm going to buy model x, you and your fellow dealers in the region can decide who is going to sell it to me based on your price. My fax number for your offer is below.

They are the salesmen, you are the customer. Why waste time bringing your offer and business to them? That's crazy, and backwards.

Doesn't work as well in a limited market like Alaska

 

[timwinters]

Personally, I will never buy another Chrysler product. I've owned about 6 or 8 over the last 20 years. I had a BiL that worked at a plant and I got employee discount but he doesn't anymore so that incentive is gone.

My latest truck, is an '08, 3/4t, Cummins, 4x4 stretch cab. It was a great deal since the employee price was over $10k less than sticker. But, it's right up there on the POS list with every other Dodge/Jeep/Chrysler I've owned. I love the Cummins, I hate everything else about that truck.

It's approaching 3 years old and has 60k miles on it. Thus far I've replaced the entire front end (@ 48k miles), a/c compressor (@ 39k), and have had to chase down chaffed wiring that was slowly draining the battery twice now. But maybe most importantly, it's also the most uncomfortable POS I've ever ridden in (and I have the best seats they made at the time). It would be okay for an around town work truck but I take a lot of 500+ mile trips and after an hour or two I need a masseuse & a hot tub. Lastly, you do NOT take your eyes off the road when driving this truck because it will take off in its own direction in a split second. This truck has mind of it's own and I never know where it's heading next.

I also have an 02 chevy, 4x4, that has almost 200k miles on it that's been a great truck. And, even w/ 200k on it, it still "drives straight down the road!"

I'm trading the Dodge this fall after I slow down and I will probably go back to a chevy but plan to look at the toyotas also. I will look for overall quality but I'm definitely going back to seats that you sit "in" instead of "on top of".

By the way, I've had two Dakotas w/ 318's and, at the time, similarly equipped full sized chevys w/ 350's were getting better gas mileage. The Dakotas were also POS trucks.

With employee discount I could afford the excessive repairs required when one owns a Chrysler product. But now that that's over, never again.

As far as how to deal, I use an approach very similar to what Stan outllined in post #19. The only thing I'd add is: please notice that he uses the term "dealer cost" and not "factory invoice". Dealer cost is less than factory invoice because there's a "holdback" that's not disclosed. There are a few websites that will give you a good estimate of this holdback, maybe even Edmonds but I've haven't done this research lately. IIRC, the larger the dealer the larger the holdback and this is why you can get better deals at larger dealers...if you can put up with their slime.

For the most part, simply find on Edmonds what the factory invoice is on the vehicle you're looking at and make that your top dollar offer. The "holdback" is their profit.

 

[Everskyward]

They make it up one way or the other, I bet if you had gotten them down to their best cash price for it and then asked for 0% financing, you would not have quailified for it for some reason.

How do you know it wasn't the lowest cash price? I was prepared to write them a check for the full amount. Besides, I figured it was low enough for me, which is what counts.

 

[Tom-D]

Personally, I will never buy another Chrysler product. I've owned about 6 or 8 over the last 20 years. I had a BiL that worked at a plant and I got employee discount but he doesn't anymore so that incentive is gone.

My latest truck, is an '08, 3/4t, Cummins, 4x4 stretch cab. It was a great deal since the employee price was over $10k less than sticker. But, it's right up there on the POS list with every other Dodge/Jeep/Chrysler I've owned. I love the Cummins, I hate everything else about that truck.

It's approaching 3 years old and has 60k miles on it. Thus far I've replaced the entire front end (@ 48k miles), a/c compressor (@ 39k), and have had to chase down chaffed wiring that was slowly draining the battery twice now. But maybe most importantly, it's also the most uncomfortable POS I've ever ridden in (and I have the best seats they made at the time). It would be okay for an around town work truck but I take a lot of 500+ mile trips and after an hour or two I need a masseuse & a hot tub. Lastly, you do NOT take your eyes off the road when driving this truck because it will take off in its own direction in a split second. This truck has mind of it's own and I never know where it's heading next.

I also have an 02 chevy, 4x4, that has almost 200k miles on it that's been a great truck. And, even w/ 200k on it, it still "drives straight down the road!"

I'm trading the Dodge this fall after I slow down and I will probably go back to a chevy but plan to look at the toyotas also. I will look for overall quality but I'm definitely going back to seats that you sit "in" instead of "on top of".

By the way, I've had two Dakotas w/ 318's and, at the time, similarly equipped full sized chevys w/ 350's were getting better gas mileage. The Dakotas were also POS trucks.

With employee discount I could afford the excessive repairs required when one owns a Chrysler product. But now that that's over, never again.

As far as how to deal, I use an approach very similar to what Stan outllined in post #19. The only thing I'd add is: please notice that he uses the term "dealer cost" and not "factory invoice". Dealer cost is less than factory invoice because there's a "holdback" that's not disclosed. There are a few websites that will give you a good estimate of this holdback, maybe even Edmonds but I've haven't done this research lately. IIRC, the larger the dealer the larger the holdback and this is why you can get better deals at larger dealers...if you can put up with their slime.

For the most part, simply find on Edmonds what the factory invoice is on the vehicle you're looking at and make that your top dollar offer. The "holdback" is their profit.

We've never had the problems you have with our dodge Ram 2500. We have been to Texas Twice in it, NY three times and Alaska once, and it rides as well as any truck I've driven. I'm on my third set of tires, replaced the tail stock bearing in the tranny, (metal in the filter) I've pulled 13,000 pounds behind the truck with no problems, I've never had to do any repairs to the chassis, except grease it, and change the brake pads (twice)

 

[gkainz]

sorry to hear about your bad experience with your Dodge Ram, Tim. On the flip side of that, I'm still happy with my '97 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 CTD with 170k on it, and my wife's still very happy with her '02 Chrysler 300M with 99k on it.

The 300 has been nearly trouble-free, with 1 trip to the shop for failed thermostat at 30k-something miles (warranty work) and a leaking fitting on the tranny cooler, besides routine brakes, oil change, etc that I do myself.

My Ram's had a tranny rebuilt at 140k, but I had it built to handle 500hp/800lbft torque, as I tow/haul with it (and am unable to resist the bug to keep bumping up the Cummins). The typical front end issues with this era Ram I've addressed myself; ball joints, track bar upgrade, hubs, DSS (steering stabilizer), etc.

I believe I've gotten my money's worth on both vehicles. BTW, grew up immersed in FORD only construction company family business, with a couple of dozen Ford trucks in service.

 

[Maxmosbey]

Does anyone know anything about the Ford Sport Trac? They look like they would be fun,