Buy or Rent? New Pilot Question

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Scott Coady

Filing Flight Plan
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I will be getting my license soon and dream of owning a plane one day or becoming a partner in one. As I have been leaning into this possibility.. it seems that a key distinction is how many hours you have determining the cost of insurance and weather or not you can join a share program. So it looks like it is important for a lot of reasons to build hours quickly. So if any of you would be kind enough to provide your wisdom, I have a few rookie questions:

1. Are there "levels" or "plateaus" of hours that provide you with breaks on insurance, like 100, 250 and so on?

2. So lets say you need to get 200 hours before your insurance goes dramatically down or before you can be part of certain share programs.. well if you rent a 172 around here, wet is is about $122 per hour. So dry that would be about $80 per hour? (7 GPH / $6.00 = $42 - $122 = $80). So then renting for 200 hours would cost $16,000? So rather than spending all that money renting.. why not buy a plane to build miles quickly then sell it? So the question is, what kind of plane do you buy that isnt too expensive that you can 200 or 250 hours on and then sell if for close to what you pay for it to make it better a better deal than renting to build your hours in? Is there a proven strategy for this kind of thing that is a no brainer?

3. Am I even thinking about this right or is there a better approach?

Thank you for your time and wisdom.
 
If you're interested in the typical 40 year old pa28, 172 type planes, insurance is going to be a rounding error in your budget. Wouldn't worry about it.

Buying a plane, selling it, then buying another can be an expensive endeavor.

Bought a Pa28 150, kept it 200 hrs then bought a Bo, I should have bought the Bonanza first.
 
"then sell if for close to what you pay for it"

It's very unlikely you can sell it for close to what you pay for it. Aircraft prices aren't exactly stable (nevermind dependably appreciating).

Plus if you put 200+ hours on an airplane, that usage will decrease the aircraft's value.

How much do you think the annual maintenance costs will be?

How about tie-down (or hangar)?

Figure in the possibility of repairs.

The proven strategy is to let someone else buy the airplane and then rent it. Unless you fly the airplane a lot, it's less expensive to rent.

For the average pilot, there are a lot of reasons to buy/own an airplane. Saving money is not one of them.

(Note I owned my cherokee 140 for 18 years and don't regret it for a moment)
 
rent < 50 hours a year
50 < partners <150
own > 150 hours a year

Insurance shouldn't be a factor.
 
Find a good partnership near you and build hours that way. You will be able to get a nicer plane than renting without having to deal with all the issues of sole ownership. I'd love to own my own plane, but life is getting in the way. I have a job, baby, and wife that require my time too so I am in a partnership for now. If you are able to put >100hrs a year into flying, you can consider owning.
 
I would buy a 172 or a Cherokee. Whatever your preference. I'd pick a airframe then get a insurance quote and see if you can find a hanger and for how much. Call your local a/p and get a quote for your annual. Take all these figures and double them and you will be close. If you can afford it still,go ahead. You will fly more. You never have to worry if someone else has reserved the plane again.
 
There's 4 of us in a Cherokee 235. The most experienced is a 10k + hour retired big airline captain and I'm the newbie just shy of a 100 hours and been flying about a year. The other two guys probably have 200-300 hours.

We pay around $1200 a year for insurance. Our plane is probably worth $50k insurance value.

As someone mentioned, as an individual it makes sense to buy if you fly the **** out of something every year. The more you fly the cost per hour comes down. For me, I figured 150 hours in a year would be the absolute max - with more like 100 being normal. I just couldn't cost justify getting the plane I wanted for that # of hours.

The best thing about a partnership is offsetting the costs. I pay a little over $100 a month to have a plane sitting in the hangar waiting for me. In a year with 4 of us in a plane there has yet to be any major scheduling conflict. The elder statesmen in the plane rarely flies - when he does he's out for a week or two on a trip once or twice a year. When he wants it - we give it to him.

When it comes time for the annual, new avionics or any other big maintenance cost - it sure is nice to split it up 4 ways. :) We pay $14/hour for what we put on the Hobbs and we keep the tanks full when we put it back in the hangar for the next guy. The $14/hr covers the engine overhaul.

Overall, not cheap by any means - but certainly affordable. You want your plane to fly - not sit for weeks at a time. With 4 folks in you can be assured that it's going to get a few hours at least every other week.
 
I prefer to own,as I fly over 150 hrs a year. Like to know the airplane is available whenever I get the urge. That being said ,all the bills come to me. You have to work the figures out for yourself. Have owned several aircraft,never made money on them.
 
unless you can get a plane at a smoking deal, I would rent initially. Your skills and expectations will change over time. I flew a cherokee 180 for a year or so, now I have a vintage mooney. Flying the cherokee let me realize what I needed and didn't need. For me, I wanted more speed and enough usable load for one more person and luggage.
 
Regardless of my earlier post on this, I bought when I started to fly. Owned that 172 about three years and got all of my money except gas out of it. I have averaged about 300 hours per year for last few years though. I have other airplanes though so all hours weren't on that one.
 
I would rent until you solo. See if you have a preference over high wing/low wing. If the fixed costs are too high you can always look for a non equity partner to help out with maintenance and tiedown.

I have a 150 that I don't own but have full use of. Insurance and annual run about $2000 a year, plus whatever maintenance is needed along the way. Over the course of a year it ended up costing me about $70/hr to operate.
 
If you're worried about which is cheaper, you shouldn't be buying an airplane. Unless you already fly more than somewhere between 100 and 150 hours a year, you don't buy a plane because it's cheaper, you buy one because you can afford the luxury of having your own plane just the way you want it (equipment, type, paint, interior, etc) all to your self any time you want it. Somewhere between renting and buying is joint ownership, such as a 3-4 person group ownership scheme -- it isn't exactly as you want it, and it isn't always available when you want it, but it's better than renting (although more costly). Think about your use of the plane, your available funds, and how much you want to have the plane available when you want it, and the answer should come to you.
 
Years ago you could buy a plane, fly it a 100 hours and then sell it for a profit, can't do that anymore. My first 2 planes I made a killing on, the last two I basically flew for free.
 
Thank you everyone... so very helpful....

I have soloed and am working on cross country now. I have the funds to fly, I just am wanting to be smart about it. I plan to definitely fly over 50 hours per year and I hope close to 150.. so sounds like the smart thing to do is find a partnership. I wasn't sure that those were open to new pilots or not but from the sound of things, they are. Then I suppose, once in the partnership I can see how much I really fly and then based on that decide to buy one of my own or not?

Thanks again for all the help. Did 1.5 hours today practicing short field lands (9 of them).
 
I would strongly suggest getting more experience before taking the plunge. I waited until I had nearly 1,000 hours and a network of pilots and A&Ps to work with before getting my Cherokee (and I do have partners). What I learned in that time, and what that network has done since, is invaluable.

I'm not saying that you should wait nearly as long as I did, but a bit more experience will help you define your mission, identify possible issues, and find the right plane.

As Ron said above, "you don't buy a plane because it's cheaper, you buy one because you can afford the luxury of having your own". For the amount of flying you envision, savings will be minimal, and you take on a lot of risk in terms of mechanical issues, ADs, etc. The previous owner of my Cherokee had to fork out $6k a few years ago due to a cylinder AD...

In short, get a little more time, a little more knowledge, and then go find the right fit for your flying.
 
Owning a plane is a great experience right up until the first major maintenance event. Hopefully you're are not stuck paying for hangar rent and insurance for months on end while your plane is broke.
 
These are some of the factors that lead to me purchasing my first plane:

* Do you fly more than 100 hours a year?
* Do you have rental airplanes available at a nearby airport?
* Can you keep the rental airplanes over long weekends without too much extra cost?
* Do you have the financial means to purchase and maintain the type of plane most useful for your own flying mission?
* Is there hangar space available at an airport near you?
* Is the hangar space affordable?
* Is there a mechanic in the area that can service your chosen plane at a reasonable rate?

I purchased a plane after about 20 hours, and it did work out well for me, but that's probably not the case for everyone. Anyhow, good luck and I wish you many enjoyable future flights, no matter what you decide.
 
I bought a cheap 172 to train in, and now have a 'Toga. if you have a business, the airplane could be a nice write off
 
It all comes down to your mission profile. If you have a business, it could be a great deduction if you use it for business purposes. Don't break the law there for sure. If you just want to learn to fly and enjoy yourself, you have several questions to answer. 1- can you justify the budget? 2- are you willing to have parters? 3 - do you trust the maintenance at a flight school?
The average pilot has these expenses - 1. hangar - 50 for tiedown and up to 350 per mo for a hangar. Mine was 350/mo for a hangar until I built my own. (60k for a nice hangar with heated floors) 2. Insurance - I pay 1400 a year for a taildragger RV3. 3.Mx - your annual could run anywhere from 400-15,000 and up depending on what they find. GO BIG on the prebuy! Most annuals are about 1,000.00. The cheapest way to get your license is to find a small share in a private aircraft ownership club and to help the mech with mx. Then you can pay the shared monthly expenses and your costs for per hour without having to worry about 1 - high rental prices and 2 - what the heck have the students done to the airplane or the mx issues you may run into on a rental that you would probably not run into with a privately owned aircraft. Then sell your share after you get your license and go get what you really want. Make sure you talk to plenty of pilots and mechanics before you go buy an airplane. Don't be a beginner pilot with a souped up fancy airplane that can do you harm in a hurry. It's ok to go reeeeal slow for a long time. Fly like an old man and you'll live to be one.
Best,
Brian
 
...I think the old adage is true here, "If you have to ask...". :)

It's cost effective to get into a flying club or partial ownership but I would think that most folks that are on some kind of a budget looking to get into a plane on their own...especially early in the flying career...are in for a shock. It's sad the number of dead planes that are parked on the ramps at my home airport. Most likely because of folks that thought they could afford plane ownership and now can't afford to keep it airworthy...so it sits and rots and with every year it sits it just gets more expensive to get back in the air.

Good luck!
 
For the typical 30-40 year old pa28/172 spam can in a 3-way partnership where each partner flies 50 hours/year, after the aircraft is paid for, is it realistic to maintain and operate such an aircraft on $5k/partner/year? The mean annual inspection, insurance, and tiedown costs seem reasonable, but it's the variance that worries me. How does one deal with unplanned maintenance (failures) or forced upgrades (ADs and the like), absent sitting on a mountain of cash?

As above, I suspect that the answer is "if you have to ask...".
 
I have wanted to buy an aircraft since I got my private about seven years ago. It was not a financial reality. I am now back into flying and I still want to buy my own plane, though the fixed and unexpected costs still scare the hell out of me. So I joined a very good flying club instead. For a $700.00 dollar buy-in and $39.00 a month I have access to a 1970 FG Cardinal for $112/hr wet. This way, I can rack up hours and experience without breaking the bank, learn about airplane ownership, and fly one very cool plane.
 
If you really get into flying, in 12 - 18 months you probably won't be happy with what you would be comfortable flying now, which makes renting or a club the right thing to do. I thought the 172 was plenty fast when I first got back into the cockpit. I still enjoy flying one, but am glad I have a Columbia 400, which was too much airplane for me a year ago.
 
Old Pilot's Saying:

If it flies ...

floats ...

or f0rn!¢@t&s ...

... it is far cheaper to rent.


HOWEVER, Cessna 120 in 1967, Cessna 170 in 1972, Cessna 172 in 1976, Cessna 182 in 2001 and never looked back. Nothing compares to getting greasy on your own airplane.

Jim
 
brianwallis said:
It all comes down to your mission profile. If you have a business, it could be a great deduction if you use it for business purposes. Don't break the law there for sure. If you just want to learn to fly and enjoy yourself, you have several questions to answer. 1- can you justify the budget? 2- are you willing to have parters? 3 - do you trust the maintenance at a flight school?
The average pilot has these expenses - 1. hangar - 50 for tiedown and up to 350 per mo for a hangar. Mine was 350/mo for a hangar until I built my own. (60k for a nice hangar with heated floors) 2. Insurance - I pay 1400 a year for a taildragger RV3. 3.Mx - your annual could run anywhere from 400-15,000 and up depending on what they find. GO BIG on the prebuy! Most annuals are about 1,000.00. The cheapest way to get your license is to find a small share in a private aircraft ownership club and to help the mech with mx. Then you can pay the shared monthly expenses and your costs for per hour without having to worry about 1 - high rental prices and 2 - what the heck have the students done to the airplane or the mx issues you may run into on a rental that you would probably not run into with a privately owned aircraft. Then sell your share after you get your license and go get what you really want. Make sure you talk to plenty of pilots and mechanics before you go buy an airplane. Don't be a beginner pilot with a souped up fancy airplane that can do you harm in a hurry. It's ok to go reeeeal slow for a long time. Fly like an old man and you'll live to be one.
Best,
Brian
Click to expand...

Thank you Brian... great advice!
 
weirdjim said:
Old Pilot's Saying:

If it flies ...

floats ...

or f0rn!¢@t&s ...

... it is far cheaper to rent.


HOWEVER, Cessna 120 in 1967, Cessna 170 in 1972, Cessna 172 in 1976, Cessna 182 in 2001 and never looked back. Nothing compares to getting greasy on your own airplane.

Jim
Click to expand...

Thank you Jim
 
Scott Coady said:
I will be getting my license soon and dream of owning a plane one day or becoming a partner in one. As I have been leaning into this possibility.. it seems that a key distinction is how many hours you have determining the cost of insurance and weather or not you can join a share program. So it looks like it is important for a lot of reasons to build hours quickly. So if any of you would be kind enough to provide your wisdom, I have a few rookie questions:

1. Are there "levels" or "plateaus" of hours that provide you with breaks on insurance, like 100, 250 and so on?

2. So lets say you need to get 200 hours before your insurance goes dramatically down or before you can be part of certain share programs.. well if you rent a 172 around here, wet is is about $122 per hour. So dry that would be about $80 per hour? (7 GPH / $6.00 = $42 - $122 = $80). So then renting for 200 hours would cost $16,000? So rather than spending all that money renting.. why not buy a plane to build miles quickly then sell it? So the question is, what kind of plane do you buy that isnt too expensive that you can 200 or 250 hours on and then sell if for close to what you pay for it to make it better a better deal than renting to build your hours in? Is there a proven strategy for this kind of thing that is a no brainer?

3. Am I even thinking about this right or is there a better approach?

Thank you for your time and wisdom.
Click to expand...

It's an 'In Type' issue, once you have 100hrs 'in type' your insurance will be about as low as it ever will be (in a 4 seat retract look around 1.5% of insured value) regardless of your total time. One interesting thing I have noticed is that initial "0 time in type" costs on retracts goes up as Total Time goes up with no complex time, I.e. if you have 100hrs TT and get a retract your initial rate will be lower than if you have 750hrs TT with no retract time.

If you know what plane you want and meets your use for a plane (no sense in buying a 150 when your use for the plane is hauling the family a couple hundred miles) get it and do your training and Checkride in it. Not only will it get you to your lowest insurance rates fastest, it will have you more proficient in the plane you intend to keep using when you are PIC with passengers.
 
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